Jurco Needs A Bigger Role

[Perfect Human]

He needs to earn his "bigger role"

I'm totally for him jumping into Helmer's spot with Tats and Pav though to give it a shot.

Agree, this line would have the proper combinations. Jurco wants to succeed and playing with a Magician may inspire him. He has stick skill. He needs to play with Dats to develop. The only place where I see him succeeding is somewhere like Washington. Wings don't really have superstars anymore who can exploit others talent; more of a team effort for the past couple of seasons.

Jurco should be traded as soon as Pulkks gets healthy.

No.

Neither should have a future with the team, but Pulkkinen actually produces, Jurco adds nothing to the team.

Wings need depth, older players not going to last forever...

 

[HIFE]

Agree, this line would have the proper combinations. Jurco wants to succeed and playing with a Magician may inspire him. He has stick skill. He needs to play with Dats to develop. The only place where I see him succeeding is somewhere like Washington. Wings don't really have superstars anymore who can exploit others talent; more of a team effort for the past couple of seasons.

You can't just drop Pulkkinen or Jurco with Datsyuk and think they could do 1/2 of what Helm provides that line. Helm has been part of a ******** of highlight goals for YEARS playing alongside Pavel. There were many nights last season and some recently they're the best players on either team. I understand he has some of the worst hands ever but there's few Wings that can match the effect of Helm's speed and feracity.

Interesting discussion of the Wings near future and what Jurco's place could be. With players like AA and Bertuzzi contending for a spot we'll soon see who can make the biggest impact. For now if he can be responsible I'll take Jurco over Andersson on the 4th any day. The question is between Pulu, Miller and Jurco I think the Wings don't mind rotating a forward until a decision has to be made. With his size, skating ability, history of scoring/playmaking it is so hard to give up on Jurco. At 23 he still has a bit more time to put his game together, but who knows if he will.

 

[Henkka]

Jurco is 10x a better grinder and still has potential to produce

It depends on the trade value I guess. Because jurco is more important to this team then pulu

But what would teams give for jurco?

If pulu doesn't score he is virtually useless. Hopefully he can score more so he can get more trade value when he comes back

You know what?

Pulu scores. And drives puck possession just like Tatar.

Don't try to turn black to white.

 

[HolyJumpin40]

Trade him to a team like Carolina

Ryan Murphy?

 

[Shaman464]

You can't just drop Pulkkinen or Jurco with Datsyuk and think they could do 1/2 of what Helm provides that line. Helm has been part of a ******** of highlight goals for YEARS playing alongside Pavel. There were many nights last season and some recently they're the best players on either team. I understand he has some of the worst hands ever but there's few Wings that can match the effect of Helm's speed and feracity.

Interesting discussion of the Wings near future and what Jurco's place could be. With players like AA and Bertuzzi contending for a spot we'll soon see who can make the biggest impact. For now if he can be responsible I'll take Jurco over Andersson on the 4th any day. The question is between Pulu, Miller and Jurco I think the Wings don't mind rotating a forward until a decision has to be made. With his size, skating ability, history of scoring/playmaking it is so hard to give up on Jurco. At 23 he still has a bit more time to put his game together, but who knows if he will.

He's been so unimpressive in the AHL that I doubt Jurco has to worry about him in the rearview mirror in the near future. He still has a lot to prove. As for AA, he's a Helm clone, Helm should worry about AA. Jurco was drafted to be a big, skilled, scoring forward, so his biggest short term worry is Pulu getting healthy and long term Mantha and Svechnikov.

 

[detredWINgs]

I recognize I'm in the minority on this, but I would 100% take the business route with Jurco. He's essentially a high-potential product that you've limited to a small market. Go national with him and see what happens. For some guys, you can't just go with meritocracy (see: Justin Abdelkader). Put him in the top 9 with other skilled components for a few months and just let it go. Don't focus on him. Don't harp on him. Just let him fly under the radar and settle in. If, after a lengthy period of time, he still can't adapt, you know what he amounts to. But here you've got a guy who has shown us substantial stretches in the early going (where expectations were low) where he played a no-weaknesses type of game. If that was a fluke, you'll find out. In the meantime, you've got a young, skilled, sizeable body who is wasting away on the 4th line in a grinding role because he hasn't yet decided to give in to a fate of being a non-skilled NHLer. You're putting in a guy who not only doesn't see himself as a grinder but is playing with the confidence of an outsider.

In short, I would swap Helm and Jurco. Diminutize Helm, promote Jurco, play it out for a few months and see what you've got. If a Helm for Jurco swap makes so much of a difference that you're losing games because of it, then you've got bigger fish to fry. If it pans out, you've got a more valuable Jurco and a less demanding Helm. Take the business points to the bank and move on.

 

[HIFE]

He's been so unimpressive in the AHL that I doubt Jurco has to worry about him in the rearview mirror in the near future. He still has a lot to prove. As for AA, he's a Helm clone, Helm should worry about AA. Jurco was drafted to be a big, skilled, scoring forward, so his biggest short term worry is Pulu getting healthy and long term Mantha and Svechnikov.

Thanks for straightening me out about Bertuzzi- I've only watched a single Griffins game this season didn't know he wasn't tearing it up. I doubt Helm worries in any way even if the Red Wings don't plan on keeping him. He's a guaranteed NHL player. Also I'm not sure any player in the world is exactly only one "type" of quality. Either you're a good hockey player or you aren't. Athanasiou is growing stronger but it has nothing to do with Helm or replacing him, IMO. Forwards need to help put up goals (and prevent them), even a 4th line is supposed to chip in a few.

Don't forget the reason Helm was placed on the 2nd line after Datsyuk's return was because Jurco is totally ineffective and soft, and Pulkkinen is completely out of place against top 6 NHLers. We witnessed those experiments fail badly.

Good players will thrive with any time you give them. 10 minutes a night is still 15% of the game to to make a difference. Helm and Abdelkader (like most NHL players) have risen through the ranks slowly over a number of seasons and they've earned it. No one imagined we would be leaning this heavily on Abbie to help carry this team from the 1st line, it's unbelievable. It may say a lot about the Wings inherent weakness that we've depended this much on former 4th line grinders, but there's no need to undervalue a guy like Helm's contribution or fantasize Jurco could somehow be as effective in his position when we've seen he cannot. He and Pulkks need to start making some waves or the Wings could be bidding them farewell.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I recognize I'm in the minority on this, but I would 100% take the business route with Jurco. He's essentially a high-potential product that you've limited to a small market. Go national with him and see what happens. For some guys, you can't just go with meritocracy (see: Justin Abdelkader). Put him in the top 9 with other skilled components for a few months and just let it go. Don't focus on him. Don't harp on him. Just let him fly under the radar and settle in. If, after a lengthy period of time, he still can't adapt, you know what he amounts to. But here you've got a guy who has shown us substantial stretches in the early going (where expectations were low) where he played a no-weaknesses type of game. If that was a fluke, you'll find out. In the meantime, you've got a young, skilled, sizeable body who is wasting away on the 4th line in a grinding role because he hasn't yet decided to give in to a fate of being a non-skilled NHLer. You're putting in a guy who not only doesn't see himself as a grinder but is playing with the confidence of an outsider.

In short, I would swap Helm and Jurco. Diminutize Helm, promote Jurco, play it out for a few months and see what you've got. If a Helm for Jurco swap makes so much of a difference that you're losing games because of it, then you've got bigger fish to fry. If it pans out, you've got a more valuable Jurco and a less demanding Helm. Take the business points to the bank and move on.

So you would punish Helm and jeopardize his career for a guy who brings basically nothing and expects basically everything? I don't think so. If they waived Jurco tomorrow I wouldn't even notice. Nor would I care. He isn't good enough to crack the line up most nights and he has had plenty of chances.

 

[muchbetterthanlada]

there's no need to undervalue a guy like Helm's contribution or fantasize Jurco could somehow be as effective in his position when we've seen he cannot.

Please believe me when I say that I like Helm.. but him with Datsyuk was always a terrible idea.

Apart from long and loyal service, what exactly has Helm done to warrant a place in the top 6? He hogs the puck, has no vision, sub par hands, and can't finish.... His S% is at 4.0% and he has 9 points in 37 games. 1 in his last 10. The man does draw a lot of penalties, but apart from that, please explain in what way he has been effective when playing on that second line. In my opinion, his Wile E. Coyote grinder style of play is a big reason why Pav ends up spending most of his shifts chasing the puck around the rink.

So you would punish Helm and jeopardize his career for a guy who brings basically nothing and expects basically everything?

Dropping Helm to the 3rd/4th line +PK wouldn't jeopardize his career, that is where he made his career in the NHL, and that is where he belongs... Also, Jurco would gain a lot more from playing with Datsyuk than Helm does. So even if Jurco may not have earned a top 9 role, I would swap him with Helm or promote Larkin to the Datsyuk line and let Jurco play with Richards. Helm would instantly make the 4th line better, and Jurco would get a fair chance on a line that is more suited to his skill set with time in the offensive zone.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Please believe me when I say that I like Helm.. but him with Datsyuk was always a terrible idea.

Apart from long and loyal service, what exactly has Helm done to warrant a place in the top 6? He hogs the puck, has no vision, sub par hands, and can't finish.... His S% is at 4.0% and he has 9 points in 37 games. 1 in his last 10. The man does draw a lot of penalties, but apart from that, please explain in what way he has been effective when playing on that second line. In my opinion, his Wile E. Coyote grinder style of play is a big reason why Pav ends up spending most of his shifts chasing the puck around the rink.

Dropping Helm to the 3rd/4th line +PK wouldn't jeopardize his career, that is where he made his career in the NHL, and that is where he belongs... Also, Jurco would gain a lot more from playing with Datsyuk than Helm does. So even if Jurco may not have earned a top 9 role, I would swap him with Helm or promote Larkin to the Datsyuk line and let Jurco play with Richards. Helm would instantly make the 4th line better, and Jurco would get a fair chance on a line that is more suited to his skill set with time in the offensive zone.

Helm works hard, is a good team mate and has earned his spot. Jurco apparently came to camp out of shape and thinks he deserves what he hasn't earned. I would rather waive Jurco than grant him reward for his total inability to perform. What kind of signal does it send to the players who work hard and perform when guys who don't leapfrog to the front of the line? Fire him out of the air lock.

 

[BinCookin]

I'd take Jurco over Pulkkinen 10/10 times

So quick several of you guys throwing pulkkinen under the bus. Sure he is a 3rd liner. But he has more than produced enough for that role this year.

 

[edmundbenz]

Jurco for Drouin..

 

[RayMoonDoh]

Helm works hard, is a good team mate and has earned his spot. Jurco apparently came to camp out of shape and thinks he deserves what he hasn't earned. I would rather waive Jurco than grant him reward for his total inability to perform. What kind of signal does it send to the players who work hard and perform when guys who don't leapfrog to the front of the line? Fire him out of the air lock.

What are your sources about jurcos conditioning and attitude?

 

[detredWINgs]

What are your sources about jurcos conditioning and attitude?

The same source that tells him Blashill can't do anything right, that Glendening is one of the league's best grinders, and that Toronto is actually a better team than Detroit.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

What are your sources about jurcos conditioning and attitude?

Jurco admitted because of his back injury he couldn't get everything done he wanted to this summer... I assume the attitude thing is for him slamming Babcock on his way out and being happy about Blashill being named coach. That is all we have really got in terms of that which could probably be eluded to...

 

[jaster]

Jurco needs to stay where he is for now. If the lines get shuffled at some point to where it makes sense to put him on the 3rd line, then maybe you try it. His confidence still isn't where it needs to be to play in the top-6, and the top-6 is not where you go to find it. All you'll do is drag down your line. He needs to make strides in the bottom-6 before he gets time with the big boys.

Long-term I think there is still a chance for Jurco, he is still pretty young after all. But the window is steadily closing. I'm starting to wonder if he just doesn't have the mental make-up to reach his upside.

 

[RayMoonDoh]

Jurco admitted because of his back injury he couldn't get everything done he wanted to this summer... I assume the attitude thing is for him slamming Babcock on his way out and being happy about Blashill being named coach. That is all we have really got in terms of that which could probably be eluded to...

IDK, I still think the AT post I replied to is stretching the facts to fit a certain narrative. There's a big difference between injury affecting one's training, and a lack of motivation. Also, the inference of poor attitude on Jurcos part seems silly, unless there's some actual proof of that, and I'm not talking about some misconstrued quote about this or that.

Evidence or libel.

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

I recognize I'm in the minority on this, but I would 100% take the business route with Jurco. He's essentially a high-potential product that you've limited to a small market. Go national with him and see what happens. For some guys, you can't just go with meritocracy (see: Justin Abdelkader). Put him in the top 9 with other skilled components for a few months and just let it go. Don't focus on him. Don't harp on him. Just let him fly under the radar and settle in. If, after a lengthy period of time, he still can't adapt, you know what he amounts to. But here you've got a guy who has shown us substantial stretches in the early going (where expectations were low) where he played a no-weaknesses type of game. If that was a fluke, you'll find out. In the meantime, you've got a young, skilled, sizeable body who is wasting away on the 4th line in a grinding role because he hasn't yet decided to give in to a fate of being a non-skilled NHLer. You're putting in a guy who not only doesn't see himself as a grinder but is playing with the confidence of an outsider.

In short, I would swap Helm and Jurco. Diminutize Helm, promote Jurco, play it out for a few months and see what you've got. If a Helm for Jurco swap makes so much of a difference that you're losing games because of it, then you've got bigger fish to fry. If it pans out, you've got a more valuable Jurco and a less demanding Helm. Take the business points to the bank and move on.

I'm in agreement with this.

 

[Vladdy84]

Yeah. I'm down with a swap of Helm and Jurco.

 

[Frk It]

I thought Jurco has been much better the last few games. Did I see him get some shifts with Datsyuk last night? Or was that just some changes where they were out together for a brief moment?

 

[Frk It]

I'd take Jurco over Pulkkinen 10/10 times

Jurco has been better lately, and had some good possession numbers. But I can't believe how underrated Pulkkinen is sometimes. I think getting him back will make us quite a bit better.

 

[Mantha Poodoo]

I agree with flipping Jurco's and Helm's role. Jurco's place is on a scoring line, and that's where he's either gonna make or break his potential. If he's gonna bust, give him a chance to bust from the position he should be busting from. That said, I doubt he will do bad given the appropriate role and sufficient time.

With Helm, meanwhile, Blash hasn't yet figured out that you don't reward Helm's scoring with scoring line minutes. He does his best offensive work from lower ice time units and PKs where he can use his speed to break loose against lesser opposition and more offensively oriented opposing team units. He makes his best mayhem when he's not "expected" to score.

 

[jaster]

I'm all for getting Helm out of the top-6. Heck, if we could trade him tomorrow for something worthwhile, I'm all game. But Jurco doesn't belong there either, not until he can show he belongs. He seems to be playing better lately, but he needs to finish more often, drive the net more often, and not shy away from traffic when the puck is on his stick.

 

[golffuul]

My problem with Jurco is that he is touted as having all this amazing hand-eye coordination, puck-control, shooting ability...and yet every time he touches the puck in the NHL, he looks like he is so afraid to do anything with it. Noticed that a fair bit with similar "skill" guys from his era of junior hockey in the QMJHL.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Count me in the crowd that finds Jurco to be very underwhelming.