July Roster Progress Report! - Rate the Changes!

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,174
9,197
Well, you remember the last two real starters we have had on this team? Both of them were career backups. Mike Smith went from being a total headcase and wildly inconsistent backup goalie for Dallas and Tampa to a total headcase and wildly inconsistent starter for Arizona and was actually nominated for a Vezina one year. So was Ilya Bryzgalov, whose five-hole was the subject of YouTube jokes from Anaheim and Edmonton fans, whose personality quirks could fill the Bhagavad Gita, and whose career cratered after he left, but who took the Coyotes to their first playoffs in years.

What I'm saying is that Raanta comes in here with a better pedigree and better stats than either Bryzgalov or Smitty had as backups, and a great personality to boot. And he took the reins from one of the top three goalies in the NHL last year when Lundqvist got hurt and actually outplayed him. So I honestly don't get why everyone is so pessimistic about the guy. :D

I really like Raanta and was my choice to replace Smith. :nod:
 

lanky

Feeling Spicy
Jun 23, 2007
9,135
6,486
Winnipeg
Looks like I'm the only grumpy one (voted 4). I think we gave up too much in futures. Deangelo, Murphy and especially 8OA were very valuable pieces. Hjalmarsson is a clear upgrade on Murphy if we're looking at 2017 performance. The other upgrades aren't so significant that I'd be ok with the price we paid.
 

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
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3,379
If you look at the last 3 seasons, only Carey Price has a better save percentage than Raanta.

Price is at 929, Raanta 924. Next up is Dubnyk, Holtby, and Darling, all at 923.

Same with GAA. Price is at 2.09, but Raanta is next at 2.17 (tied with Holtby).

Mike Smith comes in at 911 and 2.96 in those two categories. In GAA in particular, he ranks 53rd out of 54, ahead of only Ben Scrivens.

In terms of even strength SV%, again Price is first at 938. But Raanta is next up at 931, tied with Dubnyk, Anderson, Crawford, Holtby.

These numbers are encouraging, thats for sure and I am glad we landed on Raanta. I just think it might be much different for a back up like Raanta and darling going from having limited starts on a very good team to getting 60+ starts on a bad team. The workload and the expectation go way up, so the stats don't mean the same thing.

I hope Raanta has a great year, he might, i just wouldn't expect the same stats from him.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,174
9,197
Looks like I'm the only grumpy one (voted 4). I think we gave up too much in futures. Deangelo, Murphy and especially 8OA were very valuable pieces. Hjalmarsson is a clear upgrade on Murphy if we're looking at 2017 performance. The other upgrades aren't so significant that I'd be ok with the price we paid.

I said 5 awhile back but forgot to vote until now. I don't mind the trades as much as the loss of Doan and Vrbata's production that we have seem to forgotten about. Maybe they expect Keller, Strome and the rest of the kids to keep on progressing at a rapid rate, but that could backfire.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,174
9,197
These numbers are encouraging, thats for sure and I am glad we landed on Raanta. I just think it might be much different for a back up like Raanta and darling going from having limited starts on a very good team to getting 60+ starts on a bad team. The workload and the expectation go way up, so the stats don't mean the same thing.

I hope Raanta has a great year, he might, i just wouldn't expect the same stats from him.

You never know that's for sure, but I think he will be ok, but still a bit nervous.
 

TheLegend

Megathread Gadfly
Aug 30, 2009
36,842
29,012
Buzzing BoH
You must have missed Gambodoro's fawning phone interview with Tocchet today where he went to great lengths to tell how big buddies they were back when Tocchet was playing, mentioning all the bars they went to, etc.

Gambo loves the HC hire because, like almost everyone in the East Valley, he's stuck back in the Kachina sweater days... :D ;)

Or he just needed a new connnection to suck up to for free suite tickets. :naughty:
 

WrinkledPossum

Play Dead
Apr 23, 2016
3,367
1,068
Looking at just the roster, an 8. If you include the coach, I'd go with a 7. Tocchet is alright, but I would've preferred Nelson or Keefe.

To improve the rating I want another good RHD added. Either through a trade (Demers, Green) but we don't need to force a trade so I don't want to overpay. I'd also be pretty happy adding Franson.

I love the trades we have made. Adding Hammer is a huge addition, I think our defense is greatly improved just by getting a partner for OEL. I also like the move to add Stepan and Raanta. I don't really care about moving 7 because the players I wanted there all fell, we could've moved up to 10-16 to get one of the ones I did want. (wish we had with Minn 1st+35..) Losing DeAngelo sucks but valuewise I think we won the trade big time. Our roster is much improved and I think we can be in the hunt for a playoff spot. Don't think we'll make it but at least the season should be entertaining.

I also like the balls it took to move on from Doan and to fully commit to the new era of Coyotes hockey. It was obviously a tough, and for the most part an unpopular decison but it's one that was needed. We need a new culture in the locker room.
 

Gwyddbwyll

Registered User
Dec 24, 2002
11,252
469
Domi - Stepan - Duclair
Perlini - Dvorak - Keller
Crouse - Strome - Fischer
Nook - Cousins - Rieder

Some awkward rookie/sophomore combinations there. Looks good on paper but is it practical? Perlini and Keller have little experience, a lot to ask of Dvorak to centre those two, he might spend a lot of time going backwards. Likewise Strome with Crouse and Fischer? If Strome and Keller do make the lineup out of camp, surely they would play with experienced guys like Stepan, Domi, Rieder.

Maybe:
Perlini - Stepan - Fischer/Keller
Domi - Dvorak - Fischer/Duclair
Crouse - Strome - Rieder
Nook - Richardson - Cousins
McGinn
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
54,937
14,665
PHX
Some awkward rookie/sophomore combinations there. Looks good on paper but is it practical? Perlini and Keller have little experience, a lot to ask of Dvorak to centre those two, he might spend a lot of time going backwards. Likewise Strome with Crouse and Fischer? If Strome and Keller do make the lineup out of camp, surely they would play with experienced guys like Stepan, Domi, Rieder.

Maybe:
Perlini - Stepan - Fischer/Keller
Domi - Dvorak - Fischer/Duclair
Crouse - Strome - Rieder
Nook - Richardson - Cousins
McGinn

The whole point of getting Stepan was to shelter other players via matchups, not center their line. I consider Dvorak, Perlini, and Fischer established players, even though the latter two haven't played a ton. They didn't look lost or out of place at all and know their game. The only two that need to be kept apart are Keller and Strome, even though they may end up ideal linemates in the future.

Crouse and Fischer play strong down low and can maintain possession, helping Strome. Perlini and Dvorak already play a good 2 man game together, so adding Keller on top of that seems like the best place for him. Domi's line is going to draw top defenders so you may as well put Stepan and Duclair there.
 

Gwyddbwyll

Registered User
Dec 24, 2002
11,252
469
Fair points - we mainly differ on how much you can rely on those 2nd year pro's. I love how Dvorak improved as the season went on. I thought Perlini tailed off a bit, even if it was partially due to he who must not be named. I'm looking forward to seeing more of Fischer but I think he deserves to play on a line that has a bit more experience than Crouse and Strome. He could rotate in and out of Duclair/Keller's spots.
 

Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
9,242
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Just a couple of thoughts - We aren't going to miss DeAngelo as much as some think. He shouldn't become a cult figure. He didn't do anything. All he showed was promise. Wood should be just as good or better.

Stepan wasn't brought here just to shelter Dvorak and Strome. Our lack of puck possession, which cascaded down to goals for/goals against, was in large part due to ineffective center play. Stepan will help that a lot.
 

AZviaNJ

“Sure as shit want to F*** Coyote fans.”
Mar 31, 2011
6,690
4,344
AZ
Just a couple of thoughts - We aren't going to miss DeAngelo as much as some think. He shouldn't become a cult figure. He didn't do anything. All he showed was promise. Wood should be just as good or better.

Stepan wasn't brought here just to shelter Dvorak and Strome. Our lack of puck possession, which cascaded down to goals for/goals against, was in large part due to ineffective center play. Stepan will help that a lot.
PMD are invaluable, Tony D was one of the 2 we had in the organization last season. Now we have one.

Kyle Wood is not a PMD, he's a Dman with size and a shot......big and slow. He's pretty much everything DeAngelo is not. That said, if he continues to develop he could be a solid NHL player.

But we still lack for a second PMD.
 

AZviaNJ

“Sure as shit want to F*** Coyote fans.”
Mar 31, 2011
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Fair points - we mainly differ on how much you can rely on those 2nd year pro's. I love how Dvorak improved as the season went on. I thought Perlini tailed off a bit, even if it was partially due to he who must not be named. I'm looking forward to seeing more of Fischer but I think he deserves to play on a line that has a bit more experience than Crouse and Strome. He could rotate in and out of Duclair/Keller's spots.
I think Perlini is still a question mark. He could lead the team in goals this season or he could suffer a Duclair-like sophomore slump and spend time in Tucson.

I hope (trust?) the coaching change and philosophy, coupled with the addition of Stepan will ensure Perlini has a C with ability to put the puck on his stick in good places enough to avoid any extended scoring droughts.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,174
9,197
PMD are invaluable, Tony D was one of the 2 we had in the organization last season. Now we have one.

Kyle Wood is not a PMD, he's a Dman with size and a shot......big and slow. He's pretty much everything DeAngelo is not. That said, if he continues to develop he could be a solid NHL player.

But we still lack for a second PMD.

They might move Gogo to the right with Chychrun on the second pairing.
 

Naych_PHX

Feeling Salty
Jun 14, 2004
6,780
535
phoenix
I think Clendening is about the same as Deangelo on the defensive side. Clendening isn't as dynamic with the puck obviously, but Clendening might have more a sure foot on the NHL game and won't take as many risks. So I kinda see that as a wash, myself. It's a gamble for both the Rangers and Coyotes.
 

SR

Registered User
Mar 31, 2008
6,771
5,556
Arizona
I said 5 awhile back but forgot to vote until now. I don't mind the trades as much as the loss of Doan and Vrbata's production that we have seem to forgotten about. Maybe they expect Keller, Strome and the rest of the kids to keep on progressing at a rapid rate, but that could backfire.

Jakey boy, Doan didn't provide anything offensively last year, he won't be missed in that regard. He's a great leader, but surely didn't lead by example last year and was apart of the country club problem along with smith and tip. Turning the page is always a good thing and to me that's what we did.

Keller was excellent in the world tournament and proved he can play at the NHL level with the highest skill. Strome is most certainly a question mark, still need to see what we have there. Stepan is the best producing center that we've had in the last 10 years, that's an upgrade and Raanta is young and hungry.

Murphy was replaceable (for some reason I thought he was signed to a mid 3m contract for 6 years) but at best he's a #2 guy. Hjarmlarsson who's older has proven to be an effective talent at D on a good blackhawks team.

I'd have to imagine there's a veteran wing brought in on either trade or on try out to see where the kids are at.

I don't get it. People want change and progression to get out of the mediocrity that have been the coyotes the last 5 years but when it happens they're not happy.

This has been the biggest off season likely in the franchise history. Replacing the dinosaur behind the bench and cutting bait with two veterans that had been ok with a losing atmosphere is a positive thing. What we brought in all have been winners. The only real loss is DeAngelo and the 7th, however that 7th wasn't going to produce for another 3 years.

This is all good. Stay the course trust in Chyka and tochett and let's see what happens. It certainly can't be worse than before.
 

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,342
3,379
Jakey boy, Doan didn't provide anything offensively last year, he won't be missed in that regard. He's a great leader, but surely didn't lead by example last year and was apart of the country club problem along with smith and tip. Turning the page is always a good thing and to me that's what we did.

Keller was excellent in the world tournament and proved he can play at the NHL level with the highest skill. Strome is most certainly a question mark, still need to see what we have there. Stepan is the best producing center that we've had in the last 10 years, that's an upgrade and Raanta is young and hungry.

Murphy was replaceable (for some reason I thought he was signed to a mid 3m contract for 6 years) but at best he's a #2 guy. Hjarmlarsson who's older has proven to be an effective talent at D on a good blackhawks team.

I'd have to imagine there's a veteran wing brought in on either trade or on try out to see where the kids are at.

I don't get it. People want change and progression to get out of the mediocrity that have been the coyotes the last 5 years but when it happens they're not happy.

This has been the biggest off season likely in the franchise history. Replacing the dinosaur behind the bench and cutting bait with two veterans that had been ok with a losing atmosphere is a positive thing. What we brought in all have been winners. The only real loss is DeAngelo and the 7th, however that 7th wasn't going to produce for another 3 years.

This is all good. Stay the course trust in Chyka and tochett and let's see what happens. It certainly can't be worse than before.

It could be worse, look at Colorado. Toch has enough experience that I doubt that happens. I also see no evidence or comments from any players about a country club atmosphere. I do hope the coaching change is positive, I just don't think it is obvious like when Tip replaced TGO. I like Tock and think he was a good choice.

Some of the line up predictions in this thread are pretty aggressive and pretty high in expectations for the younger players. Perlini/Duclair on the first line is questionable, they both still have to play on D too. Fischer in the top 6 and Strome as the 2C/3C is also aggressive, and setting expectations pretty high. I don't think all these young players will come through for us, I think some will fail, like Duclair last year.

After the Hanzal loss, Stepan and mostly Chalmers will have the biggest impact. this team has tons of potential and I hope we have a great year, just don't want my own expectations to be too unrealistic.
 

Summer Rose

Red Like Roses
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May 3, 2012
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Roster alone is an 8 for me, but that's the best we can feasibly pull off with our assets and budget. I don't think Chayka could have done much of a better job than he did with what he has to work with. On paper I don't think this roster makes the playoffs next season (but I could be pleasantly surprised), since we still have some holes and question marks. However, this season is going to be the season that those question marks turn into answers and we can see what we have, and re-evaluate next offseason. The so-called "cornerstone" phase of a rebuild. We either turn the corner and start competing in the playoffs (and hopefully for a cup), or the rebuild fails and we have to start over.

The non-roster moves make this overall offseason a 10 though. :)
 

cactus shake

Registered User
Oct 22, 2013
277
0
tl;dr version: yay. 7 or 8 depending on how optimistic the coaching picks make me.

I loved the trades. Trades are fun & the current NHL seems like a dark age for them. I wrongly used to be optimistic that would change, but the expansion draft was just ridiculous in the extent to which teams paid up to stand pat as opposed to using it as a catalyst to change things up.

Picks/potential were the only trade chips the Coyotes had left, & while it's a risk to part with what they did, on a team that completely relies on the development of its prospects to become any good, I think you can only have so many question marks throughout the lineup before it hurts everyone's chance of reaching their potential. It should be beneficial to turn a few of those into sure things. It seemed to be a board consensus that the team had to transition from the 'acquire as many high-upside assets as possible' stage of the rebuild into the phase where development of what we had was more important. The coaching change & trades seem really positive in that regard.

I love the Stepan deal full stop, but agree that in terms of value the Hjalmarsson deal is pretty weird. He's an incredible player whose value largely lies in his cost effectiveness for the next 2 years. Years within the Hawks' window, but ones we'll be lucky to make the playoffs in. I agree with SniperHF's concern about how quickly that type of puck eating player falls off a cliff. Hjalmarsson's next contract is likely to be ugly. Does eventually jettisoning him for a draft pick hurt Operation make OEL sign a new contract? That probably misses the whole point that when you can add a player that good for what we gave up, you do it.

What I love most about the two big additions is that they are players used to tough matchups. Hjalmarsson's excelled eating tough defensive minutes & Stepan's held his own in the playoffs against the East's top centres. I think that lessens the worry when players move from good teams to bad ones.

I'll miss DeAngelo & Murphy. While the board seems split on whether Murphy will ever take the next step - giving up a 6'4" RHD with as few miles as he had on his body makes me nervous. But as said I think waiting on a 24 year old to put it all together doesn't make sense for this team. Improve the team now so the young core has a better environment to develop.

As well as Smith rebounded, assigning that proportion of the meagre budget to a goalie with age/injury concerns when there are always better value short-term (Elliott/Mason) or long-term options available, no longer made no sense. Raanta appears as good a gamble as any. Great move.

Similar goes for Tippett. Judging coaches seems incredibly hard, especially given the crap tools Tippett was given. The Colorado comparison is interesting to me. Colorado under Roy had terrible underlying numbers which they largely outperformed in the standings. I think numbers point to the Coyotes playing even worse hockey last year than the points total suggested. Is that good coaching? I don't think a new coach coming in & the team playing down to those underlying numbers or even below it, says all that much about the previous coach. Teams like Toronto and Carolina recently have played good hockey with lesser talent. The lack of skill showed in scoring and save percentages which sunk them in the standings. I'd rather that template if they could find it. I was happier with Tippett's use of young players last year, but getting in a coach who is happier about development over the record, & someone who emphasises scoring over not conceding should hopefully be more fun to watch.

Lastly, while it makes sense for a cup contender, I feel judging the offseason by whether the team's positioned to have a better record this year is a strange way to look at it. The team still relying on youngsters taking the next step to move forward is surely what rebuilding is? To get significantly better would have cost core prospects. Re: what we did vs. standing pat - I like the new voices in the room & surrounding veterans more. I love Hanzal, but will take Stepan's age & injury record and more consistent offensive output over Hanzal's defensive qualities. I think a pick that will take more time to develop & a high potential player that likely needed more sheltering than we could provide is a fine trade off. The defence could be scary in a couple of years, but it should dramatically improve for now. An elite pairing or couple of players seems more important than depth. The team may be worse next year without Smith, but moving on makes sense long term. Doan did look done. The time feels right for a change in leadership.

RW is the only move I don't agree with. I seemed to be alone in wanting Jooris back, though I will jump for joy if Martinook / Richardson / Rieder is our actual skilled 4th line (situationally) next year as opposed to part of a bad top 6. There likely aren't the pieces to acquire a good RW this year; hopefully players build some trade value through the season. So a veteran UFA on a 1 year deal that could play in a variety of roles & be easily flipped for an asset if a younger player demands more playing time, like Vrbata or Hemsky, seemed a no brainer. I liked the trades, it just feels they missed out on some smart, short, UFA deals

Apologies for the boring long-ass post, just never commented on the individual moves.
 

Hinterland

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Sep 29, 2016
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Once again not thrilled...

Stepan is most likely the only addition that will help the Coyotes longterm and he came at a ridiculous prize plus the Rangers forced Chayka to also take Raanta who he's now trying to sell as the new big thing...

Traded away two young potentially key players...two players I was very high on...
I also would have liked to keep Burmistrov...small sample size but he was really good...certainly more upside than Cousins who's just a 4th line pest.


We still need a proper RD and a proper right wing or the previous trades make zero sense...
 

Hinterland

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Sep 29, 2016
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Wait, the Rangers forced him on us now? Lol come on already

They were actively shopping the guy for quite a while but nobody was willing to pay since there's no goalie market...so yes...that's likely what happened...
Otherwise Chayka could have just signed Johnson.
 

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,342
3,379
Once again not thrilled...

Stepan is most likely the only addition that will help the Coyotes longterm and he came at a ridiculous prize plus the Rangers forced Chayka to also take Raanta who he's now trying to sell as the new big thing...

Traded away two young potentially key players...two players I was very high on...
I also would have liked to keep Burmistrov...small sample size but he was really good...certainly more upside than Cousins who's just a 4th line pest.


We still need a proper RD and a proper right wing or the previous trades make zero sense...

Stepan is a clear upgrade at 1C/2C since we don't have one. He has been consistent, we know what we are getting. Chalmers was more important as we finally have a legit 1RHD.

Murphy was a mistake in that we over paid him and he was on the third line all year. He might turn into a second pairing D man, maybe, but we won't miss him. DeAngelo has tons of potential but has plenty of risk too, he might or might not work out, as will the 7th pick. To me we didn't give away much in solid players to get 2 top pairing players, those trades look good to me.

As for Raanta, i agree in that it is a crap shoot, like any back up goalie would be. This one is a dice roll that might or might not work out. Chalmers/Stepan are very solid though.
 

Muppet

7th Round Pick
Mar 13, 2011
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@ Hinterland. We get it, you hate Raanta. You're literally the only one, so your constant posts ******** on him are getting old.
 

DesertDawg

Registered User
Mar 6, 2002
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They were actively shopping the guy for quite a while but nobody was willing to pay since there's no goalie market...so yes...that's likely what happened...
Otherwise Chayka could have just signed Johnson.

?? He makes less than Domingue and is playing for a starter contract! What's the downside? If anything, he is an upgrade to Domingue.As for shopping him, since the end of the Rangers season? To me it looks as though the 'Yotes moved Smith to bring in Raanta!
 

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