Post-Game Talk: Jr Nucks fall 5-4 in OT to Jr Jets

jigsaw99

Registered User
Dec 20, 2010
5,660
217
Because most people have?.

I have watched Horvat for the entire Memorial cup, the last part of the season, and the WJC Camp. He has had a total of TWO good games in that entire collection in my eyes.

That's why I am hard on him, That's why I don't think he is a top prospect.

same. he's able to dominate the lesser comp but when it comes to bigger stage he seems to be average at best. I notice the biggest challange is still speed for him. He does not have good enough speed to be a top guy. Also he biggest strength is his strength and it become less a factor in the bigger stage when guys get bigger.
 

DCantheDDad

DisplacedNuckfan
Jul 1, 2013
2,934
93
Edmonton
Jeez, a lot of "sky is falling" posts in here after two prospect games. Our fanbase sometimes...

I agree, nobody has looked particularly good so far. I expected more out of some of these guys, but these two games aren't even a particularly good indicator of where these guys are. They are playing with a team that has had what, two days of practicing together? Lets not give up on these guys entirely just yet.
 

biturbo19

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
25,795
10,843
A better effort from a lot of the "vets", but still a lot of ugly scrambly pond hockey stuff. Still, a lot of interesting little things to see and it's hockey, i like watching hockey. :nod: Not really surprising that the Jets looked better here (and won, though that's fairly irrelevant). They've got a system stacked with skilled guys. This sort of tournament is tailor made for small, creative, super skilled guys like Petan. If the NHL game is a Chess Match of systems and matchups...this tournament is more like a game of Snakes and Ladders. Guys with the individual pucks skills who can creatively deal with the weird bounces, strange mishaps, confusion, chaos, etc. are going to excel here. When it comes to the "real deal" with stifling systems play, tight checking, physical battles...the pendulum tends to swing.

Anyway. As for our guys, some thoughts:

Horvat: Another "Bo Game". Does a lot of quiet little things that are nice, some little give and go type stuff, using his substantial mass to draw guys away from teammates and create a bit of space for them offensively, reliable positioning on the ice, percentage plays, etc. It's certainly not "exciting" and you'd like to see him "open it up" at least a bit more...but i guess that's just not in the cards for him.

Shinkaruk: Again, a great game. Rewarded with a couple goals. But for a guy who missed as much time as he did, he's been very impressive. Offense seems to follow him around. Looked less rusty than last game, wasn't fighting the puck quite as hard, but still clearly not caught up yet...understandably.

Gaunce: Huge improvement over last game. Whether it was the "demotion" or a talking to or whatever, he was far more assertive today. Actually took the puck and controlled it, used his size, made some nice little passes...rewarded with a gimme goal for being in the right place at the right time (which seems to be his specialty). Still looks awkward lumbering around out there, but if it works, it works. :D

Corrado: I don't think his game was nearly as bad as most here are suggesting. He had way more miscues than you'd like to see from a guy with his level of experience and expectations at a tournament like this...but at least he seemed more engaged in the game this time...less of the lackadaisical bullcrap. The "mistakes" and miscues he was making, i can't help but wonder if his "familiarity" with Travis Green's system is actually hurting him a bit in this tournament. So much of the time he looked fairly bewildered by why his partner was doing...almost as though he's playing a "system game" expecting teammates to be in predictable places doing reasonable things...instead of the general confusion and spastic decisionmaking we've seen prevail. Not a good showing, but it looks like there's more to it than just "sucking".

Jensen: Way better game. Showed a lot more offensive confidence, was vastly better at managing the puck defensively. Some real dangerous shots and opportunities created. Just seems to be a pattern at every level, he's a guy who really benefits from more talented linemates.

Valk: Scored again, he's obviously well suited to a tournament like this and has plenty of skill. Very opportunistic though, and doesn't consistently create. Also way worse than i expected defensively for a second game. Constantly on the wrong side of the puck as the 3rd forward offensively. And when the play shifts to his own zone, just dons his cloak of invisibility and floats around between the dots and the blueline. Doesn't seem too interested in doing much of the dirty work in his own end, and isn't very effective when he does rarely attempt. Really surprising to me, as i don't recall him being so bad in The Hat. Still...he's obviously got skill, and that's a nice thing to have, the production is great even in a small sample like this. I just can't help but think he's a low rent Schroeder though. Maybe worth a Utica contract...maybe.

Subban: Rough game. The ugly side really came out tonight. Far too eager to jump the gun and start thinking offense in his own end, strange positional play decisions, puck chasing, even some poor decisions forcing plays that weren't there offensively and terrible breakout passes (which should be his strong suit here).

Zalewski: Like others, quietly impressive. Showed he's got wheels, makes smart, simple decisions with the puck, forechecks well, doesn't get in his own way. All positive signs if he's going to find his way to the NHL one day in a depth role.

Cederholm: lmao. Why does this guy have a contract, honestly. I try really hard not to judge on too large a scale with a tournament like this...but this is honestly the same Cederholm as you see in the CHL. And i just don't get why he was signed. Slow, both in skating and thinking, zero puck skills, very little apparent hockey IQ, constantly out of position defensively. It's like a poor man's Adam Polasek. :amazed:

Mackenze Stewart: I like the way he just charges around recklessly with no apparent gameplan in mind. :sarcasm:

The Other Invites: It may sound harsh, but i really just don't care about any of them and it's extremely disappointing having to watch so many of these guys blunder their way through a "Young Stars" tournament in a Canucks jersey due to a lack of real "prospects". None of them were at all interesting or good.
 

DCantheDDad

DisplacedNuckfan
Jul 1, 2013
2,934
93
Edmonton
...

Shinkaruk: Again, a great game. Rewarded with a couple goals. But for a guy who missed as much time as he did, he's been very impressive. Offense seems to follow him around. Looked less rusty than last game, wasn't fighting the puck quite as hard, but still clearly not caught up yet...understandably.

...

For a guy to be a little rusty, and still nab two goals tonight is awesome. In a few months, I think this kid will be gold.
 

ARSix

Registered User
Mar 12, 2012
1,771
0
In tournaments where the defensemen are generally green or lackluster, guys with high end puck skills and speed will shine. When the 82 game season kicks in and these skilled but scrawny kids are forced to face up against the likes of Orpik, Weber, Chara, Subban, etc. then we'll see what they're really made of.
Laughing my f*$@% ass off at ORPIK being on that list.

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things is not the same...
 

BeardyCanuck03

@BeardyCanuck03
Jun 19, 2006
10,823
410
twitter.com
For a guy to be a little rusty, and still nab two goals tonight is awesome. In a few months, I think this kid will be gold.

He works hard, which creates chances and he's also good at finding the soft spot in the defense when he doesn't have the puck and being in the right spot for a scoring chance. He will push for a spot out of camp IMO, probably won't make it but he'll be a mainstay in the top 6 next season on.
 

Bad Goalie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2014
20,093
8,781
I should clarify I was referring to players like Tkachev, Petan and Johnny Hockey.

Not a single prospect from the Canucks side had really shined as of now.

You're putting my post in the wrong context.

Point taken. Your explanation here was not clear in your previous comment. We agree on the number of Blue chip, can't miss Canucks prospects at this point in time.
 

Huggy

Respectful Handshake
Jul 22, 2014
9,665
649
Vancouver
Iam starting to remember this all happening with Hodgson.

He's the next great one
He Sucks
He's the next great one
He sucks
He makes the team, omg hes unreal
Traded to Buffalo
He Sucks
 

Huggy

Respectful Handshake
Jul 22, 2014
9,665
649
Vancouver
It's almost like they're ignoring a lot of Canuck players had slow starts.

Kesler: Projected third liner (Gaunce-esque)
Burrows: Bottom six grinder/AHLer
Higgins: Fourth line (when we traded for him)
Ehrhoff: Salary dump
Bieksa: Bottom pairing defenseman
Tanev: Depth defenseman
Lack: Career backup

Hell, even the Sedins were thought to be just secondary scoring.

Don't forget Coho and now Boho
 

WetcoastOrca

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jun 3, 2011
38,476
22,619
Vancouver, BC
same. he's able to dominate the lesser comp but when it comes to bigger stage he seems to be average at best. I notice the biggest challange is still speed for him. He does not have good enough speed to be a top guy. Also he biggest strength is his strength and it become less a factor in the bigger stage when guys get bigger.

I disagree. Last year I thought Horvat got better as training camp went along and had his best games on the big stage during the pre-season games. The rookie tournament is not really the big stage for him. That starts in training camp this week and he needs to improve like he did last year.
 

Huggy

Respectful Handshake
Jul 22, 2014
9,665
649
Vancouver
same. he's able to dominate the lesser comp but when it comes to bigger stage he seems to be average at best. I notice the biggest challange is still speed for him. He does not have good enough speed to be a top guy. Also he biggest strength is his strength and it become less a factor in the bigger stage when guys get bigger.

What's hilarious is you single out Horvat in the OHL playoffs when he was PPG with the flu

and then mention the memorial cup which London had a 2month break from before getting on the ice again

His strength will be a lesser factor in the NHL because guys are bigger?

Yea not like you can get even stronger between 19-22
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bankerguy

Registered User
Apr 28, 2013
3,824
1,962
Offense just follows Shinkaruk around... either he creates it, or he's in the right place when opportunity arises.

I can kind of see where he gets this rumored "cocky attitude" from (if even true), the guy has that 'x-factor', he seems to just be able to put up points ...i think his game will translate well to the NHL.

I have no idea what to expect from Bo Horvat, it pains me to say it, but he might end up with the career we expected Gaunce to have. Solid 35-40 point 3rd line two-way centerman. It's only 2 games..we should wait to see how the rest go. Last year, he seemed to get better as he played more. It could very well be the case this year as well.

Jensen is a pure sniper. He wont create offense, but he's the guy you want pulling the trigger when you have some creative player like Shinkaruk making fancy plays and then dishing the puck. Or maybe you have a gritty guy like Kesler or Burrows banging guys and pucks pop out in the slot, Jensen needs to play with good players to look good out there. Keep him with Horvat / Shinkaruk. I think he'll make the Canucks. he didnt look horrible with the team last year, he's an above average skater, good size, ...and when he plays with NHL calibre guys, his game will improve more than the other prospects (imo)

Gaunce played better this game... he was demoted to a 3rd line role. Maybe that's where he thrives. I say, Canucks have a lot of projected top 6 forwards in the system..why not groom Gaunce for 3rd/4th line duties. He may excel in that type of role. Let him specialize in a defensive role... offense can develop later on... he needs to find his niche to make the pro

Anyone think Shinkaruk should be tried at center? He's played it in the past. Base your top 6 around pairings Fox/Horvat & Shinkaruk/Jensen

I really really wish Virtanen and McCann were playing in this tourny. McCann's high skill level would really do well in this type of Tourny. Virtanen's speed and hitting would be fun to watch too... i think that type of player is missing on our prospect roster. Next years Tourny will be fun to watch for sure... add Virt/McCann+2015 1st.. will be a lot more skill out there
 
Last edited:

Bieksa#3

Registered User
Mar 2, 2007
635
14
I wouldn't worry about horvat yet.

Last year Guance has a absolutely brutal tournament but completely did a 180 once pre-season came around.

The point is that this tournament isn't as important as people may want to believe. It's just a benefit for prospects to shake off some rust before heading into main camp.
 

Bad Goalie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2014
20,093
8,781
A better effort from a lot of the "vets", but still a lot of ugly scrambly pond hockey stuff. Still, a lot of interesting little things to see and it's hockey, i like watching hockey. :nod: Not really surprising that the Jets looked better here (and won, though that's fairly irrelevant). They've got a system stacked with skilled guys. This sort of tournament is tailor made for small, creative, super skilled guys like Petan. If the NHL game is a Chess Match of systems and matchups...this tournament is more like a game of Snakes and Ladders. Guys with the individual pucks skills who can creatively deal with the weird bounces, strange mishaps, confusion, chaos, etc. are going to excel here. When it comes to the "real deal" with stifling systems play, tight checking, physical battles...the pendulum tends to swing.

Anyway. As for our guys, some thoughts:

Horvat: Another "Bo Game". Does a lot of quiet little things that are nice, some little give and go type stuff, using his substantial mass to draw guys away from teammates and create a bit of space for them offensively, reliable positioning on the ice, percentage plays, etc. It's certainly not "exciting" and you'd like to see him "open it up" at least a bit more...but i guess that's just not in the cards for him.

Shinkaruk: Again, a great game. Rewarded with a couple goals. But for a guy who missed as much time as he did, he's been very impressive. Offense seems to follow him around. Looked less rusty than last game, wasn't fighting the puck quite as hard, but still clearly not caught up yet...understandably.

Gaunce: Huge improvement over last game. Whether it was the "demotion" or a talking to or whatever, he was far more assertive today. Actually took the puck and controlled it, used his size, made some nice little passes...rewarded with a gimme goal for being in the right place at the right time (which seems to be his specialty). Still looks awkward lumbering around out there, but if it works, it works. :D

Corrado: I don't think his game was nearly as bad as most here are suggesting. He had way more miscues than you'd like to see from a guy with his level of experience and expectations at a tournament like this...but at least he seemed more engaged in the game this time...less of the lackadaisical bullcrap. The "mistakes" and miscues he was making, i can't help but wonder if his "familiarity" with Travis Green's system is actually hurting him a bit in this tournament. So much of the time he looked fairly bewildered by why his partner was doing...almost as though he's playing a "system game" expecting teammates to be in predictable places doing reasonable things...instead of the general confusion and spastic decisionmaking we've seen prevail. Not a good showing, but it looks like there's more to it than just "sucking".

Jensen: Way better game. Showed a lot more offensive confidence, was vastly better at managing the puck defensively. Some real dangerous shots and opportunities created. Just seems to be a pattern at every level, he's a guy who really benefits from more talented linemates.

Valk: Scored again, he's obviously well suited to a tournament like this and has plenty of skill. Very opportunistic though, and doesn't consistently create. Also way worse than i expected defensively for a second game. Constantly on the wrong side of the puck as the 3rd forward offensively. And when the play shifts to his own zone, just dons his cloak of invisibility and floats around between the dots and the blueline. Doesn't seem too interested in doing much of the dirty work in his own end, and isn't very effective when he does rarely attempt. Really surprising to me, as i don't recall him being so bad in The Hat. Still...he's obviously got skill, and that's a nice thing to have, the production is great even in a small sample like this. I just can't help but think he's a low rent Schroeder though. Maybe worth a Utica contract...maybe.

Subban: Rough game. The ugly side really came out tonight. Far too eager to jump the gun and start thinking offense in his own end, strange positional play decisions, puck chasing, even some poor decisions forcing plays that weren't there offensively and terrible breakout passes (which should be his strong suit here).

Zalewski: Like others, quietly impressive. Showed he's got wheels, makes smart, simple decisions with the puck, forechecks well, doesn't get in his own way. All positive signs if he's going to find his way to the NHL one day in a depth role.

Cederholm: lmao. Why does this guy have a contract, honestly. I try really hard not to judge on too large a scale with a tournament like this...but this is honestly the same Cederholm as you see in the CHL. And i just don't get why he was signed. Slow, both in skating and thinking, zero puck skills, very little apparent hockey IQ, constantly out of position defensively. It's like a poor man's Adam Polasek. :amazed:

Mackenze Stewart: I like the way he just charges around recklessly with no apparent gameplan in mind. :sarcasm:

The Other Invites: It may sound harsh, but i really just don't care about any of them and it's extremely disappointing having to watch so many of these guys blunder their way through a "Young Stars" tournament in a Canucks jersey due to a lack of real "prospects". None of them were at all interesting or good.

"Cederholm: lmao. Why does this guy have a contract, honestly."

He sounds exactly like another Sauve. Does the organization want to go through that again? Utica's roster doesn't accommodate him. PLEASE!
 

WetcoastOrca

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jun 3, 2011
38,476
22,619
Vancouver, BC
One thing this tourney has really shown is our lack of depth at defence. I know we're missing Hutton, Forsling and Tryamkin but we still lack that high end defenceman and we also lack the depth that we have in our forward prospects. This is going to become a big organizational need as defencemen typically take much longer to develop. While I'm not holding my breath it would great for our depth if Sbisa could turn his career around.
 

Jimson Hogarth*

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
12,858
3
Defensive stalwart who excels in strong systems play doesn't look his best in a game of pond hockey, story at 11.
 

Huggy

Respectful Handshake
Jul 22, 2014
9,665
649
Vancouver
We definitely need a D prospect soon,

Vey for Mckeown seems kinda lame now but we'll see

Sucks I've enjoyed drafting scorers for the past 3 years.
 

Bankerguy

Registered User
Apr 28, 2013
3,824
1,962
We definitely need a D prospect soon,

Vey for Mckeown seems kinda lame now but we'll see

Sucks I've enjoyed drafting scorers for the past 3 years.


I was SOOOOO hoping McKeown would be available in the 2nd round. Every pick that was announced i was really hoping that i wouldnt hear his name. I followed him closely over the year. guy reminds me of Dan Hamhuis... but right handed. I hated that trade for Vey... until i see what Vey can do, i'll still hate it.
Side note: Mckeown's rating on hf is 7.0 D. I dont know where they get the D from. I expected C
 

BeardyCanuck03

@BeardyCanuck03
Jun 19, 2006
10,823
410
twitter.com
We definitely need a D prospect soon,

Vey for Mckeown seems kinda lame now but we'll see

Sucks I've enjoyed drafting scorers for the past 3 years.

Hutton and Tryamkin weren't playing remember.

Also, on Horvat, his game is designed to thrive once the play is more polished and less scrappy. He's the kind of player that will thrive once he has chemistry with his linemates and they are playing a proper system. This scrappy hockey that has been very prominent during this tournament does not make for an environment that will allow Horvat to show his strengths the best.
 

crazyforhockey

Registered User
Jul 31, 2007
6,485
91
I wouldn't worry about horvat yet.

Last year Guance has a absolutely brutal tournament but completely did a 180 once pre-season came around.

The point is that this tournament isn't as important as people may want to believe. It's just a benefit for prospects to shake off some rust before heading into main camp.

Good points......one of the assistants for Edm? Who used to be in Det....talked exactly about not overvalueing how a player performs at these types of camp.
They had a highly touted young Zetterberg who other than showing some flashes of high end skill had a very poor prospect camp.But at main camp he found another level and the rest is history.


To me the biggest isssue is individual play overshadows true team play.......because these teams are scrambly and little training as a whole......plus you have a wide range of skill level and PROGRESSION you have very little structure to support solid play from everyone.

Think about it ...as a forward you assist a dman then peel away to receive a pass .....the defence bobbles the pass or makes a poor desicion ..olayers start tempering their play because they are uncertain of how the plays are goin to go.
Totally diffrent with a main camp with veterns sprinkled in making consistent plays.

For all the flack Horvat is getting....hes playing a 200 foot game for the team and for the prospect of making the main camp.....wait to camp and see how he performs let alone everyone
 

ItsAllPartOfThePlan

Registered User
Feb 5, 2006
16,105
6
Calgary
Was at the game yesterday. Horvat was fine. He seemed to play better with Jensen than shinkaruk.

Side note. We were sitting behind Fox's parents and after he was kicked out he came and joined them. I might be reading this wrong, but I don't think he likes Shinkaruk too much.
 

Win One Before I Die

Cautious Optimism
Jul 31, 2007
5,119
4
Was at the game yesterday. Horvat was fine. He seemed to play better with Jensen than shinkaruk.

Side note. We were sitting behind Fox's parents and after he was kicked out he came and joined them. I might be reading this wrong, but I don't think he likes Shinkaruk too much.

Oh god here we go again. RIFT!!!!!!!!!!
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad