And a complete bust after failing to dominate two games before the start of the season.
Only in Vancouver...
Post-Game Talk: Jr Nucks fall 5-4 in OT to Jr Jets
- Thread starter The Stig
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And a complete bust after failing to dominate two games before the start of the season.
Only in Vancouver...
Not dominating /= being one of the worst players on the ice and getting benched late in the game.
There are likely a lot of mitigating factors are play which could negatively impact his performance. He's still young and has time to grow. But I really think what he has shown should at least cause people to ease up a bit with the O'reilly comparisons and expectations.
Pip
Registered User
One of the worst players on the ice
What game were you watching?
The one where the coach yelled him off the ice and sat him the rest of the game. In a freaking prospect tourney. There were 3 or 4 particularly awful players on the ice for us, and he was one of them.
Edit: For all we know it's just a nerves problem. I'm not saying he sucks, won't be a pro, or anything of the sort. But saying that playing poorly should not cause any concern whatsoever is hardly objective.
Jimson Hogarth*
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- Nov 21, 2013
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There aren't any ""blue chip cant miss guys" who are in their "first season" as an eligible pro. Both Virtanen and McCann, the two guys that would qualify are not playing.
I think that in the end Horvat will show his value against the pro's in main camp. I would like to see him go up against Vey head to head in scrimmages.
The Iron Goalie
Formally 'OEL for Norris'
Canucks LB
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Fat Tony
Fire Benning
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Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
For any criticism on top-end players of this tournament: Do we really judge players on one or two games? Does this make Johan Franzen a premier NHL scoring machine because he scored 5 goals in 1 game once? Does that make Sam Gagner an Art Ross candidate for getting 8 points in a game and 12 in 2?
A couple games means nothing in the long run.
A couple games means nothing in the long run.
"There aren't any ""blue chip cant miss guys" who are in their "first season" as an eligible pro."
Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote. I said there were none. Therefore, these guys will be going to Utica. Gaunce, Fox, Shinkaruk, Zalewski, etc. All are first year pros and none are can't miss blue chip players. Valk probably belongs on that list as well provided the brass signs him.
We all know Horvat is a questionable 1st year pro. Has to make the big club or go back to Jrs. Then his first pro season will be next year. He's also not a can't miss blue chipper. Probably see him in Utica to begin next season (2015-16) also.
Wilch
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- Mar 29, 2010
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I should clarify I was referring to players like Tkachev, Petan and Johnny Hockey.
Not a single prospect from the Canucks side had really shined as of now.
You're putting my post in the wrong context.
Wow i stopped watching after about 2 periods and watched football instead... guess i should've watched the 3rd.
Dmans generally take a lot longer to develop than forwards. I'm not sure we can wait 3-4 years to draft a dman with our 1st pick and still have time to develop him to replace spots. Honestly, unless its a lottery pick, that 1st round pick will probably take 3+ years to develop (of course there could be exceptions/diamonds in the later rounds but generally speaking, they take a while to develop).
Also remember that both Hamhuis and KB3 are UFA in 2 years. Could we sign both? Probably but there's no guarantee of that until they are actually signed. The other question is rather or not we want to sign them then... remember they'll be 35 and 33/34 (Hamhuis's birthday in December) respectively. That's generally where you start to see dmans skill start declining. Also with how physical KB3 plays, you have to wonder if his body will catch up with him between now and when he's a UFA.
As far as the other dmans (not counting Elder), they are all RFA next year. Depending on how they perform, some of them will likely get a raise (Stanton will get a raise period). We have control of them for 2-3 more years but i doubt we keep all of them by the time they can be UFA. A couple (or maybe all of them) will probably sign 1-3 year deals so we'll be losing at least 1 in 2-3 years. Corrado in theory was probably going to replace one of them sooner or later (or replace KB3/Hamhuis).
Of course we still have other dmans being developed and could be hopeful that Tommernes, McEneny, etc develop as we hope (and in the case of NCAA prospects that we are able to sign them if they develop). Also prospect tournament really doesn't mean a lot, its just a showcase where some players might shrine while others (Corrado) might not. Pre-season is much more important than prospect tournament and honestly what Corrado shows in camp is probably more important than the actual games.
Dmans generally take a lot longer to develop than forwards. I'm not sure we can wait 3-4 years to draft a dman with our 1st pick and still have time to develop him to replace spots. Honestly, unless its a lottery pick, that 1st round pick will probably take 3+ years to develop (of course there could be exceptions/diamonds in the later rounds but generally speaking, they take a while to develop).
Also remember that both Hamhuis and KB3 are UFA in 2 years. Could we sign both? Probably but there's no guarantee of that until they are actually signed. The other question is rather or not we want to sign them then... remember they'll be 35 and 33/34 (Hamhuis's birthday in December) respectively. That's generally where you start to see dmans skill start declining. Also with how physical KB3 plays, you have to wonder if his body will catch up with him between now and when he's a UFA.
As far as the other dmans (not counting Elder), they are all RFA next year. Depending on how they perform, some of them will likely get a raise (Stanton will get a raise period). We have control of them for 2-3 more years but i doubt we keep all of them by the time they can be UFA. A couple (or maybe all of them) will probably sign 1-3 year deals so we'll be losing at least 1 in 2-3 years. Corrado in theory was probably going to replace one of them sooner or later (or replace KB3/Hamhuis).
Of course we still have other dmans being developed and could be hopeful that Tommernes, McEneny, etc develop as we hope (and in the case of NCAA prospects that we are able to sign them if they develop). Also prospect tournament really doesn't mean a lot, its just a showcase where some players might shrine while others (Corrado) might not. Pre-season is much more important than prospect tournament and honestly what Corrado shows in camp is probably more important than the actual games.
>sample size
>context
>ever
Also funny to see the Jr Canucks carry on the proud tradition of keeping things on the perimeter that the Canucks so dearly hold.
>context
>ever
Also funny to see the Jr Canucks carry on the proud tradition of keeping things on the perimeter that the Canucks so dearly hold.
me2
Go ahead foot
It is important to establish consistency through the organisation so that players can move seamlessly through the levels.
DennisReynolds
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It's almost as if people who only watched Horvat is this tournament and probably not a single London's game are overreacting.
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
It's almost like they're ignoring a lot of Canuck players had slow starts.
Kesler: Projected third liner (Gaunce-esque)
Burrows: Bottom six grinder/AHLer
Higgins: Fourth line (when we traded for him)
Ehrhoff: Salary dump
Bieksa: Bottom pairing defenseman
Tanev: Depth defenseman
Lack: Career backup
Hell, even the Sedins were thought to be just secondary scoring.
Canucks LB
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Because most people have?.
I have watched Horvat for the entire Memorial cup, the last part of the season, and the WJC Camp. He has had a total of TWO good games in that entire collection in my eyes.
That's why I am hard on him, That's why I don't think he is a top prospect.
mrmyheadhurts
Registered Boozer
Horvat was also a slow starter last training camp as well, he got better every pre-season game, to the point where I think he was getting consideration for a 9 game tryout.
I just don't put a ton of stock into this tournament. It's fun, and it's a nice way for prospects to get their feet wet before main camp, but that's about it.
Let's see how he does when main camp starts, I still expect him to make the team.
I just don't put a ton of stock into this tournament. It's fun, and it's a nice way for prospects to get their feet wet before main camp, but that's about it.
Let's see how he does when main camp starts, I still expect him to make the team.
Burrows was an undrafted roller hockey player. Higgins and Ehrhoff were veterans when we acquired them. Tanev got a chance to play some of his first hockey for the team during the playoffs, and looked fantastic. Everyone knew he'd be more than a depth defender. Bieksa was a 5th round pick. Lack is a goalie. Kesler is really the best comparable, but he always looked like a sure fire NHL player, just one lacking offensive flair. Horvat isn't even looking that at this point.
And, let's be honest here. We traded one of the best goalies in the league straight up for the pick after a long drawn out goalie debacle resulting in the loss of both our starting goalies, and then we passed on Nichuskin to take Horvat with it. Unless the kid blows expectations out of the water, he's not going to get a fair shake.
I know it's only two games in a prospect tourney, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little concerned.
ihaveyuidonttouchme
MrShiftbyShiftGuy
Well if u r talking about that time period, u probably was watching him at the worst time since he had to deal with a lot of issues (nagging injuries, entire teams playing like **** etc..)
there's that guy named Alexander Mallet who did a lot of good things at these tournament but look where he's at now,.these games dont mean a thing to me anymore
it's what they do at the pro level is all that matters or something
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Horvat didn't have a good game. The critical observations people have made above are warranted. Granted that observations are not judgments.
If Higgins, Hansen, Richardson or Kassian was put into one of these games we'd expect them to dominate possession while providing excellent defensive play and leadership. Horvat is projected to line up beside them and if he were to make the team, expectations should be more or less similar (maybe a little less).
This is not the end of the world. Two games of prospect tourney is not the final decision on Horvat's career. But it's also not completely meaningless like some posters are making it out to be.
If Higgins, Hansen, Richardson or Kassian was put into one of these games we'd expect them to dominate possession while providing excellent defensive play and leadership. Horvat is projected to line up beside them and if he were to make the team, expectations should be more or less similar (maybe a little less).
This is not the end of the world. Two games of prospect tourney is not the final decision on Horvat's career. But it's also not completely meaningless like some posters are making it out to be.
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
My point is people are making a mountain out of a molehill. Two meager prospect games mean absolutely nothing. Just about every player I listed were well into their 20s before they made any worthwhile impact at the NHL level. If Horvat struggles through to preseason, and again next year, then we can worry.
