JR: HHOF

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Pathetic. Rutherford is the Jeff Fisher of hockey General Managers.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't know about you, Jiggy, but I forgave 66 LONG ago.

I’m still working on it... Zubby and Kovy were my favorite players growing up by a huge chasm... and when the Pens landed Zubby I was never as stoked about a trade before or since.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Pathetic. Rutherford is the Jeff Fisher of hockey General Managers.

It’s always nice to be reminded of why I stopped coming here.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

It’s always nice to be reminded of why I stopped coming here.

How am I wrong? A history of failure surrounded by small blips of success that outside the constant middling, at best, of the rest of his career.

 

[Shockmaster]

How am I wrong? A history of failure surrounded by small blips of success that outside the constant middling, at best, of the rest of his career.

Where are Jeff Fisher's championships?

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Where are Jeff Fisher's championships?

Near the goal line in the Georgia Dome (RIP). Doesn't change my analogy.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Near the goal line in the Georgia Dome (RIP). Doesn't change my analogy.

lol yes it does. JR has built teams that won three Cups (and played for another). His 2006 win with Carolina might even be the most impressive. You can’t compare that resume to Jeff Fisher unless your brain is broken.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

lol yes it does. JR has built teams that won three Cups (and played for another). His 2006 win with Carolina might even be the most impressive. You can’t compare that resume to Jeff Fisher unless your brain is broken.

I absolutely can. Outside of his Carolina Cup his teams made the playoffs twice. He's almost missed the playoffs twice with a Penguins roster that should be a lock every year, but his tinkering has nullified that advantage frequently. Remember when they had to play games short a man because he messed up the cap situation so badly?

His Carolina Cup was hot goaltending and entire teams getting hurt (literally the entirety of the Sabres defense was hurt in the ECF) and the oppositions best goalie being hurt in the Cup. Very cool for Carolina (being a fan especially) but very lucky. After that he tinkered that team to death.

The back to back in Pittsburgh was impressive because he got on a hot streak with trades (which when you make as many as he does will happen sometimes) and had a hot, young goalie come to the fore. For a change not making a ton of tinkering trades led to the second Cup, as well as some crazy PDO luck.

He has a history of continued failure with three blips of success that can be more luck than anything sprinkled in. The guy isn't a good GM, he's been very fortunate. We should all be so lucky but over 20 years of his history says competent GMing is the exception, not the norm.

Jeff Fisher of NHL GMs.

 

[Shockmaster]

I absolutely can. Outside of his Carolina Cup his teams made the playoffs twice. He's almost missed the playoffs twice with a Penguins roster that should be a lock every year, but his tinkering has nullified that advantage frequently. Remember when they had to play games short a man because he messed up the cap situation so badly?

His Carolina Cup was hot goaltending and entire teams getting hurt (literally the entirety of the Sabres defense was hurt in the ECF) and the oppositions best goalie being hurt in the Cup. Very cool for Carolina (being a fan especially) but very lucky. After that he tinkered that team to death.

The back to back in Pittsburgh was impressive because he got on a hot streak with trades (which when you make as many as he does will happen sometimes) and had a hot, young goalie come to the fore. For a change not making a ton of tinkering trades led to the second Cup, as well as some crazy PDO luck.

He has a history of continued failure with three blips of success that can be more luck than anything sprinkled in. The guy isn't a good GM, he's been very fortunate. We should all be so lucky but over 20 years of his history says competent GMing is the exception, not the norm.

Jeff Fisher of NHL GMs.

So anything good that happened under Rutherford's GMing is just dumb luck? Have you looked closer at the resumes of some of these other "great GMs" that have yet to even win a Cup? I bet if you did you'd find it very easy to be at least as critical (or even more so) than a GM who has 3 Cups.

Saying he's the Jeff Fisher of NHL GM's is the reaction of an angry, knee-jerk fan who thinks his team should easily win it all every year. It's a laughable comparison.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I absolutely can. Outside of his Carolina Cup his teams made the playoffs twice. He's almost missed the playoffs twice with a Penguins roster that should be a lock every year, but his tinkering has nullified that advantage frequently. Remember when they had to play games short a man because he messed up the cap situation so badly?

His Carolina Cup was hot goaltending and entire teams getting hurt (literally the entirety of the Sabres defense was hurt in the ECF) and the oppositions best goalie being hurt in the Cup. Very cool for Carolina (being a fan especially) but very lucky. After that he tinkered that team to death.

The back to back in Pittsburgh was impressive because he got on a hot streak with trades (which when you make as many as he does will happen sometimes) and had a hot, young goalie come to the fore. For a change not making a ton of tinkering trades led to the second Cup, as well as some crazy PDO luck.

He has a history of continued failure with three blips of success that can be more luck than anything sprinkled in. The guy isn't a good GM, he's been very fortunate. We should all be so lucky but over 20 years of his history says competent GMing is the exception, not the norm.

Jeff Fisher of NHL GMs.

Jeff Fisher was known for being a boring, three yards and a cloud of dust coach. He was extremely conservative and JR is quite unconventional, even among his peers.

Even taking championships out of the equation, the comparison doesn’t fit.

JR is more like Al Davis... save the extreme crazy. Won championships and took lots of risks, would change his philosophy for odd reasons and sink his team into a deep hole...

Both deserve HOF nods, but both made you wonder what the hell they were thinking many times.

 

[IcedCapp]

Jeff Fisher is known for being a mediocre, .500 coach who never won shit, but somehow kept getting jobs.

Jim Rutherford has won 3 cups as a GM.

Some mother f***ers always tryna ice skate uphill

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

The overarching theme that runs through these five seasons is the complete and total lack of a sense of direction to Rutherford’s team building approach. He made moves suggestive of a win-now strategy with a core group wasn’t capable of winning now.

A lot of Rutherford’s best moves in this era (trading Kaberle, Ruutu, Gleason) were simply undoing the catastrophic decisions he’d made previously, and that’s never a good thing coming out of a general manager.

Sure sounds familiar.

Rutherford's lifetime record as a GM before the Penguins was 656-623-111-101. He's a mediocre GM who tinkers and has been around long enough to be fortunate. Even with a stacked roster he's almost missed the playoffs twice as the Penguins GM. And he's mismanaged the cap so badly he had to play short players for multiple games. He's Jeff Fisher.

 

[tom_servo]

He's Jeff Fisher with three championships -- ie not Jeff Fisher.

He completely turned this team around in '16 with maybe the second best GM work in this team's history (Craig Patrick in '91 probably better). No idea what you're on about.

Edit: actually, why is Craig Patrick in the Hall? After '92 he was pretty bad.

 

[Shockmaster]

Sure sounds familiar.

Rutherford's lifetime record as a GM before the Penguins was 656-623-111-101. He's a mediocre GM who tinkers and has been around long enough to be fortunate. Even with a stacked roster he's almost missed the playoffs twice as the Penguins GM. And he's mismanaged the cap so badly he had to play short players for multiple games. He's Jeff Fisher.

3 Championships =/= Jeff Fisher. Sorry. By that comparison, David Poile is closer to being the NHL GM version of Jeff Fisher, and even that is a ridiculous comparison.

 

[tom_servo]

Also, as a coach, Jeff Fisher has a more direct impact on his team's record. And guess what, he was at or under .500 his last eight seasons. Tied for the NFL record in career losses (byproduct of long tenure, but still).

 

[Shockmaster]

Also, as a coach, Jeff Fisher has a more direct impact on his team's record. And guess what, he was at or under .500 his last eight seasons. Tied for the NFL record in career losses (byproduct of long tenure, but still).

Not to mention Jeff Fisher had more resources at his disposal compared to what Rutherford had in Carolina.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Not to mention Jeff Fisher had more resources at his disposal compared to what Rutherford had in Carolina.

And with those "more resources" Rutherford has botched the cap to where his team needed to play NINE GAMES down a player and has nearly missed the playoffs with two generational talents. He's a fraud who has had success by lasting a long time.

 

[K Fleur]

Somehow in the time you all spent talking about him Fisher managed to coach a team to a 7-9 record.

 

[Shockmaster]

And with those "more resources" Rutherford has botched the cap to where his team needed to play NINE GAMES down a player and has nearly missed the playoffs with two generational talents. He's a fraud who has had success by lasting a long time.

And with less resources he won a Cup with a budget team, and won twice more with those generational talents in a lot less time than the previous GM did.

I'm starting to wonder if you've been infected with the main board hivemind opinion that winning Cups is far inferior to hoarding draft picks.

 

[Shrimper]

Fully deserved

 

[Ugene Magic]

Sergei Zubov is in. Damn you, Craig Patrick.

Zubov during the Jagr reign would've lifted those teams an entire level.

What was the deal with that? Was it really as simple as 66 not getting along with him on the PP?

It also had a lot to do with Zubov not wanting to take showers with the rest of the boys and took washcloth baths. Point being, he stunk.


Maybe they should have all ganged up on him after every practice and game.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Congrats.... JR.


Soak it all up.

 

[Turin]

One thing I like about Rutherford is that he’s not scared to make moves. So many teams get stagnant because GMs are so concerned with winning every deal on paper or afraid of hurting feelings. Being a fan is about entertainment, and he’s pretty much in on everything when he can be.

I think he needs to be surrounded by the right environment though because he seems to lack direction. It wasn’t until Sullivan came in (not really under his watch either) that he really went in on the speed stuff. That’s not to say he didn’t make good moves before that like with Kessel, Bonino, Fehr and Cullen.. (what a year for Rutherford).

Basically the two stains on his resume for me are Johnson and Johnston. Everything else I understand the logic behind it even if it didn’t work. Though dealing Hagelin was dumb. If he could just move away from John’s we’re in the clear.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Good for JR!

 

[Hell Yeah!!!]

I love the “he almost missed the playoffs twice with a pens roster that shouldn’t have.”

Hint: He creates the roster, coach and players deliver the results.