Josi is spectacular

triggrman

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I have posted this in other threads but not here.

Every defenseman Josi has played with has put up their best numbers career wise their first season with Josi. Every single one.

Klein, Weber, Ellis, Irwin and now Ekholm is on his way.

How often does a defenseman make his partner better offensively ever single time?
 

Sensinitis

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Okay let me make this clear to all the people who don't watch Preds games regularly. Subban played last year with Ekholm who is a an underrated beast of a defenseman which allows Subban to get away with a lot of his misplays. Subban is a good player, but he isn't the best Defenseman on the Preds. He isn't better than Josi, He isn't better than Ellis, he isn't better defensively than Ekholm or Ellis or Josi. Subban this year has had to play with Emelin, and now that he doesn't have Ekholm to bail him out any time he makes a mistake, it is obviously clear that he is very overrated by a lot of people on this board. Subban is a hell of a guy to watch play, and is a Superstar with how fun he looks and is.

I'm so glad we have this top four and wouldn't trade them for anything, not even McDavid. But I really wish people would quit saying Subban is the best defenseman on the Preds, because he just isn't. People just don't understand the keyword in defeseman is defense, not offense.

Subban also falls a lot on the ice. Not sure if diving or just not as strong on his skates as the rest of our team.

Can other people chime in on this? Is this accurate? Doesn’t seem like it to me based on watching Subban in MTL and in NSH last year.
 

ThirdManIn

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I'm not sure there a complete "most special" defenseman right now. Karlsson fans have even admitted he has been subpar defensively.

Pietrangelo is making a case though.

I'd agree. We don't often see players who just entirely set themselves above everyone else at their position. There is always some sort of flaw. For defensemen, the last one I recall was Lidstrom during their two Cup runs in the late-2000s.
 

ThirdManIn

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Can other people chime in on this? Is this accurate? Doesn’t seem like it to me based on watching Subban in MTL and in NSH last year.

It's partially true, but not entirely, at least in my view.

During the playoffs, Subban really did buckle down. He and Eckholm played their minutes better than Josi and Ellis, and they were given the hardest assignments. Subban has the ability to be a beast defensively.

Right now, it's unfair to judge him because with Ellis out it can reasonably be assumed he is taking on a different role to partially fill that hole. He has been at the center of some terrible breakdowns, but he is also playing with Emelin. Emelin has been underwhelming between his occasional big hits. Subban has made some incredible offensive plays. He's doing his part in that regard, but he can't do it all for his pairing and Emelin isn't really pulling the extra weight.

When Ellis is back and the Predators can roll their pairings from last year I think we will see a completely different game from all of them. Right now, guys are doing more than they should have to because of circumstances out of their control, and it bites them in their asses sometimes. It is what it is.
 
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gorangers0525

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I have posted this in other threads but not here.

Every defenseman Josi has played with has put up their best numbers career wise their first season with Josi. Every single one.

Klein, Weber, Ellis, Irwin and now Ekholm is on his way.

How often does a defenseman make his partner better offensively ever single time?


Klein put up better numbers as a Ranger.
 

gorangers0525

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Dec 15, 2014
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It's partially true, but not entirely, at least in my view.

During the playoffs, Subban really did buckle down. He and Eckholm played their minutes better than Josi and Ellis, and they were given the hardest assignments. Subban has the ability to be a beast defensively.

Right now, it's unfair to judge him because with Ellis out it can reasonably be assumed he is taking on a different role to partially fill that hole. He has been at the center of some terrible breakdowns, but he is also playing with Emelin. Emelin has been underwhelming between his occasional big hits. Subban has made some incredible offensive plays. He's doing his part in that regard, but he can't do it all for his pairing and Emelin isn't really pulling the extra weight.

When Ellis is back and the Predators can roll their pairings from last year I think we will see a completely different game from all of them. Right now, guys are doing more than they should have to because of circumstances out of their control, and it bites them in their asses sometimes. It is what it is.

I don’t think any defenseman should be harshly judged playing with Emelin, guy shouldn’t be touching NHL ice.
 
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Bjornar Moxnes

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People who don't watch the Preds often probably wouldn't realize how often he had to carry Matt Irwin as a partner over the last two seasons. That will make anyone's defensive metrics look bad.

Actually Josi's stats without Weber have been a lot better, like wise Ellis' advanced metrics without Ekholm have been very bad. Ekholm is the most consistent regardless of who he plays with. Subban is as well, but his results are different depending on who he plays with, not so much for Ekholm. Josi takes easier comp since Weber trade, with Ekholm taking more difficult comp since then, however at the same time Josi also takes less Ozone starts, and produces better advanced metrics results.
 

Sensinitis

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Look at this dude bringing some evidence in instead of "watch the game and my coach is Jesus" very nice.

Josi's analytics are absurdly good this year. I can see why the thread was made.

I just think we should see it for a whole season before we anoint him better than Subban who's led practically every team he's ever been on in defensive impact.

I doubt it’s a coincidence that Josi looks bettee defensively since playing regularly with Ekholm.
 
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TitansVolsPreds615

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Can other people chime in on this? Is this accurate? Doesn’t seem like it to me based on watching Subban in MTL and in NSH last year.
Many Preds fans consider Subban the weakest of the big 4. Ellis turned it on big time last year and Ekholm and Josi have been rock solid for years. I like PK's game and he seems to thrive on competition but he can get you in trouble with bad turnovers. He also has a great shot but he pulls the trigger way too often with a crowded lane. I can recall a number of his shots that were blocked and turned into breakaways.
 

ThirdManIn

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I think for a lot of Nashville fans, the luxury of having these four defensemen, especially seeing the group take the team to the SCF in its first year together, causes this weird problem of rotating out who is the best defensemen on the team at a given time. Normally you have your top guy, who may end up in competition for "the guy" with a clear 2nd guy. If you're lucky, the 3 and 4 positions are either ambiguous in a similar way to the top pair or at least filled by clear 3 and 4 spot guys, but there is almost always a noticeable gap between the top and second pair. Then, your third pairing guys are either kids who aren't ready for heavy minutes but need to continue their development in the NHL, veteran guys who are there to steady the ship but generally aren't going to play many dangerous minutes on purpose, or a combination of both.

So in Nashville there is this rare, arguably unique, situation in which the differences between the top two pairs have more to do with style than talent and skill. You have two guys who are legitimately #1 defensemen, Josi and Subban, playing on two different pairings with defensemen who are legitimately 2nd pairing defensemen who are bordering on being top pair guys. Great stretches make different guys become "the guy," and poor stretches make them fall off in the minds of the fans.

With Subban I think it takes him longer to recover the trust of the fans after a bad game or a bad stretch. There are many reasons that could be true, not the least of which is leftover feelings about the Weber trade. His animated personality is something people can easily point to when he makes a mistake, claiming it as proof that he isn't focused as much as he should be (during the playoffs it was either JR or Milbury who claimed Subban wasn't focused because he was dancing to a song during warm-ups). He is polarizing because he doesn't act like the stoic NHLer people have been used to, and, let's be honest, he does do some stupid, pest-like things during games that would piss me off if he weren't on my team. Those things will lead to penalties, often at very bad times, and he catches hell for that (deservedly so).

There are, objectively, two guys one of whom is the best defenseman on Nashville, just in terms of player ability. Those guys are Josi and Subban. It becomes subjective at that point and, despite what some might try to pass off stats-driven, objective fact, a lot of the decision then is a matter of taste or a matter of situation.
 

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by a lot, you mean zero? or are you just trying to bash him?

Pens goal Nr 1: Shorthander, Preds lost the puck at the blueline, not Josi.
Nr 2: Josi loses a puck battle against Malkin, it happens. Not out of position at all.
Nr 3: Josi not on the ice, breakaway caused by Subban slipping.
Nr. 4: Josi not on the ice, Subban doesn't care to defend at all.

I love how everyone just blows the "bad defensively"-whistle while not even watching the games.
He also leads all NSH Dmen in
-CF%,
-CF%rel
-FF%
-FF%rel

I was talking about his 6 game playoff performance in the Cup Finals, not some random regular season game. Nice deflection
 

PerdFan

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I was talking about his 6 game playoff performance in the Cup Finals, not some random regular season game. Nice deflection
You do realize that Josi was carrying Ellis during the final because Ellis was playing on a knee that was held together with spit, duck tape and bubblegum right? Ellis couldn't make any cuts, could barely skate and couldn't really keep up his end of the zone breakouts. Hard to look spectacular against a talented Pens team when you're having to drag a 190 pound weight through the zone all the time.
Watch some Preds games this season. You'll see why the OP titled this thread like he did.
 

RickP

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Everybody seems to know +/- is a bad stat, so I don't need to convince anybody... But especially for defensemen, you will often see a D pairing start the breakout, then go change, then their teammates score as soon as the other pairing steps on the ice. In that situation, giving a +1 to the D who just stepped on the ice, that's quite irrelevant. I assume over an 82-game schedule, it kinda evens out, but I'm not sure about that...
 

rent free

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Am i weird for thinking Ekholm has been the Preds best D so far this season? Not that Josi have been bad either but...
ekholm has been better defensively but josi has been better offensively
 

Mrb1p

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I have posted this in other threads but not here.

Every defenseman Josi has played with has put up their best numbers career wise their first season with Josi. Every single one.

Klein, Weber, Ellis, Irwin and now Ekholm is on his way.

How often does a defenseman make his partner better offensively ever single time?

He's the new Markov, and most often, the other player takes the love.

Markov had Souray, Komisarek, Streit, Subban and Emelin.
 

ThirdManIn

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I think it's a little unfair to say he is currently Cullen's pick for Norris. He is Cullen's pick for the quarter-season statistical Norris.

Moral victories!!
 

blueandgoldguy

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That's interesting. I knew he was an excellent defenseman but I did not realize he is one of the favorites for the Norris at the quarter-season mark. Nashville really is the NHL's defensemen factory.
 

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