Player Discussion Joshua Roy

[Canadiens98]

HuGo will project what type of player they think they can get in this year's draft versus what Kyrou is. They will look to see which player will help us win more in the playoffs, and in which window: 26 year old Kyrou or an 18 year old they make projections on.

At the end of the day, he's able to watch much more than I am, and his evaluations will be much more accurate.

I'll support the moves he makes, and only really judge them a few years down the line.

 

[Scintillating10]

I think trading away the 5th OVR pick is giving too much. If we were to move back from let's say, 8 .. I think both teams would give it some serious consideration

16 too far back to trade for me. I like no further back than 10 or 12. According to McKenzie's final rankings Catton, Sennecke would be available there.

 

[Scriptor]

Why would St-Louis trade Kyrou for the 5th OA?

Are they rebuilding?

The odds of this year's 5th OA selection becoming a Kyrou-type player, is far from guaranteed.

A two-time 70+ point producer and 30+goal-scorer already, as well as a player that can play C or W, locked in for 8.125M for another seven years, Kyrou is a very solid addition to a team's top-6 for a very long time.

If it only took our 5th OA pick this year, after the lottery results, to land Kyrou, how could Hughes not consider that, at the very least?

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Dach - Kyrou / Kyrou - Dach - Roy

If another trade involving WIN's 1st round pick this year and CAL's 1st round pick next year can land us a player like Zegras, I think we'd be all set up front, personally with the following top-9 as early as this upcoming season:

Zegras - Dach - Kyrou
Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Beck - Anderson/Roy
Armia - Dvorak - Roy/Anderson
Gallagher

 

[LaP]

Why would St-Louis trade Kyrou for the 5th OA?

Are they rebuilding?

The odds of this year's 5th OA selection becoming a Kyrou-type player, is far from guaranteed.

A two-time 70+ point producer and 30+goal-scorer already, as well as a player that can play C or W, locked in for 8.125M for another seven years, Kyrou is a very solid addition to a team's top-6 for a very long time.

If it only took our 5th OA pick this year, after the lottery results, to land Kyrou, how could Hughes not consider that, at the very least?

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Dach - Kyrou / Kyrou - Dach - Roy

If another trade involving WIN's 1st round pick this year and CAL's 1st round pick next year can land us a player like Zegras, I think we'd be all set up front, personally with the following top-9 as early as this upcoming season:

Zegras - Dach - Kyrou
Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Beck - Anderson/Roy
Armia - Dvorak - Roy/Anderson
Gallagher

He's 26 the "already" is kind is misplaced imo. He's a very good player but he's not a ppg player or a 40 goals scorer which is what you would want with a 5th overall pick tbh, Don't think it's a trade i would do personally. If he was 2-3 years younger i'd be more inclined to do it. Honestly i will be very surprised if Iginla doesn't become at least a 25-30 / 50-60 player who does well in the real season.

 

[Mrb1p]

He's 26 the "already" is kind is misplaced imo. He's a very good player but he's not a ppg player or a 40 goals scorer which is what you would want with a 5th overall pick tbh, Don't think it's a trade i would do personally. If he was 2-3 years younger i'd be more inclined to do it. Honestly i will be very surprised if Iginla doesn't become at least a 25-30 / 50-60 player who does well in the real season.

40/ppg is high expectations for any pick outside the 1st OA. I think expecting 30g/60 points is more realistic.

With that said, Kyrou isn't a good forward. He's very soft and he's not good defensively. If that's what we want we can just grab Catton who's probably not even going to come with the weaknesses and at a controlled price. Essential for a winning team.

 

[Scriptor]

40/ppg is high expectations for any pick outside the 1st OA. I think expecting 30g/60 points is more realistic.

With that said, Kyrou isn't a good forward. He's very soft and he's not good defensively. If that's what we want we can just grab Catton who's probably not even going to come with the weaknesses and at a controlled price. Essential for a winning team.

Yeah, guy sucks. Right...

 

[Mrb1p]

Yeah, guy sucks. Right...

He kinda does honestly. He'd be fine if we didn't have Cole but he'd be way too much softness and unidimensional play for this roster. He'd be worth the 5th overall for a team that needed offensive punch next year. Flyers, Bruins, Islanders, caps. We need role players and quality more so.

 

[FerrisRox]

He kinda does honestly. He'd be fine if we didn't have Cole but he'd be way too much softness and unidimensional play for this roster. He'd be worth the 5th overall for a team that needed offensive punch next year. Flyers, Bruins, Islanders, caps. We need role players and quality more so.

Are you talking about Kyrou? Kyrou "kinda sucks?"

Are you for real with this?

 

[Mrb1p]

Are you talking about Kyrou? Kyrou "kinda sucks?"

Are you for real with this?

Yes, hes not what the Habs need just like the Habs wouldn't need 2016 Hoffman.

 

[LaP]

Yeah, guy sucks. Right...

He doesn't suck but he's not a difference maker either. He's not going to move any needle for us. Yes the pick represent a risk but there's a reward coming with the risk and that reward is better than Jordan Kyrou if you draft the right guy. There's not much doubt imo that at least 2-3 guys drafted between 5th and 15th will be better player than Kyrou overall and like Mrb1p said that player will be younger and cost contrllled for a longer period of time. I'm not even a gambler type of guy i'm very logical and boring and i take the risk with the pick.

Top 5 picks are rarely traded and there's a reason for that. Here's a list of 5th overall picks thru the years you'll see on average you get a pretty good player and here and there an elite one so unless you get an elite player there's not much reason to make a trade involving a 5th overall pick. Not sure i'd call Kyrou an elite player pesonally there's a good chance our pick develop around his skill level.

5th overall thru the years :

2000 – Raffi Torres (LW, New York Islanders)
2001 – Stanislav Chistov (LW, Anaheim Ducks)
2002 – Ryan Whitney (D, Pittsburgh Penguins)
2003 – Tomas Vanek (LW, Buffalo Sabres)
2004 – Blake Wheeler (RW, Phoenix Coyotes)
2005 – Carey Price (G, Montréal Canadiens)
2006 – Phil Kessel (RW, Boston Bruins)
2007 – Karl Alzner (D, Washington Capitals)
2008 – Luke Schenn (D, Toronto Maple Leafs)
2009 – Brayden Schenn (C, Los Angeles Kings)
2010 – Nino Niederreiter (RW, New York Islanders)
2011 – Ryan Strome (C, New York Islanders)
2012 – Morgan Reilly (D, Toronto Maple Leafs)
2013 – Elias Lindholm (C, Carolina Hurricanes)
2014 – Michael Dal Colle (LW, New York Islanders)
2015 – Noah Hanifin (D, Carolina Hurricanes)
2016 – Olli Juolevi (D, Vancouver Canucks)
2017 – Elias Pettersson (C, Vancouver Canucks)
2018 – Barrett Hayton (C, Arizona Coyotes)
2019 – Alex Turcotte (C, Los Angeles Kings)
2020 – Jake Sanderson (D, Ottawa Senators)
2021 – Kent Johnson (C, Columbus Blue Jackets)

 

[McGuires Corndog]

He doesn't suck but he's not a difference maker either. He's not going to move any needle for us. Yes the pick represent a risk but there's a reward coming with the risk and that reward is better than Jordan Kyrou if you draft the right guy. There's not much doubt imo that at least 2-3 guys drafted between 5th and 15th will be better player than Kyrou overall and like Mrb1p said that player will be younger and cost contrllled for a longer period of time. I'm not even a gambler type of guy i'm very logical and boring and i take the risk with the pick.

Top 5 picks are rarely traded and there's a reason for that. Here's a list of 5th overall picks thru the years you'll see on average you get a pretty good player and here and there an elite one so unless you get an elite player there's not much reason to make a trade involving a 5th overall pick. Not sure i'd call Kyrou an elite player pesonally there's a good chance our pick develop around his skill level.

5th overall thru the years :

2000 – Raffi Torres (LW, New York Islanders)
2001 – Stanislav Chistov (LW, Anaheim Ducks)
2002 – Ryan Whitney (D, Pittsburgh Penguins)
2003 – Tomas Vanek (LW, Buffalo Sabres)
2004 – Blake Wheeler (RW, Phoenix Coyotes)
2005 – Carey Price (G, Montréal Canadiens)
2006 – Phil Kessel (RW, Boston Bruins)
2007 – Karl Alzner (D, Washington Capitals)
2008 – Luke Schenn (D, Toronto Maple Leafs)
2009 – Brayden Schenn (C, Los Angeles Kings)
2010 – Nino Niederreiter (RW, New York Islanders)
2011 – Ryan Strome (C, New York Islanders)
2012 – Morgan Reilly (D, Toronto Maple Leafs)
2013 – Elias Lindholm (C, Carolina Hurricanes)
2014 – Michael Dal Colle (LW, New York Islanders)
2015 – Noah Hanifin (D, Carolina Hurricanes)
2016 – Olli Juolevi (D, Vancouver Canucks)
2017 – Elias Pettersson (C, Vancouver Canucks)
2018 – Barrett Hayton (C, Arizona Coyotes)
2019 – Alex Turcotte (C, Los Angeles Kings)
2020 – Jake Sanderson (D, Ottawa Senators)
2021 – Kent Johnson (C, Columbus Blue Jackets)

Pretty good list, for the most part.

Like you said it comes down to the right player. I think Iginla is the safest pick we could make in that range, I think he’ll be a 30-30-60 guy at the least.

 

[Canadiens98]

Why would St-Louis trade Kyrou for the 5th OA?

Are they rebuilding?

The odds of this year's 5th OA selection becoming a Kyrou-type player, is far from guaranteed.

A two-time 70+ point producer and 30+goal-scorer already, as well as a player that can play C or W, locked in for 8.125M for another seven years, Kyrou is a very solid addition to a team's top-6 for a very long time.

If it only took our 5th OA pick this year, after the lottery results, to land Kyrou, how could Hughes not consider that, at the very least?

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Dach - Kyrou / Kyrou - Dach - Roy

If another trade involving WIN's 1st round pick this year and CAL's 1st round pick next year can land us a player like Zegras, I think we'd be all set up front, personally with the following top-9 as early as this upcoming season:

Zegras - Dach - Kyrou
Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Beck - Anderson/Roy
Armia - Dvorak - Roy/Anderson
Gallagher

Kyrou can't really play C. He's an all-offense player.

It's not that he can't defend, it's just that he seems to put almost all his effort into scoring. He's very talented, I just don't like the fit with our current core.

 

[LaP]

Pretty good list, for the most part.

Like you said it comes down to the right player. I think Iginla is the safest pick we could make in that range, I think he’ll be a 30-30-60 guy at the least.

Iginla is imo the Brady Tkachuk of this year. Not in the style of player he is obviously but in the type of pick he is. His ceiling is not as high as some of the other guys but he's a very safe pick with still the potential to be a 40-80 guy. Lidstrom looks like the Byfield of this year again in the type of pick not style of player.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Iginla is imo the Brady Tkachuk of this year. Not in the style of player he is obviously but in the type of pick he is. His ceiling is not as high as some of the other guys but he's a very safe pick with still the potential to be a 40-80 guy. Lidstrom looks like the Byfield of this year again in the type of pick not style of player.

Could not agree more.

Iginla is as close to a “sure thing” with a good amount of upside we could pick at 5. I honestly think we regret not taking him (like Tkachuk) if we pass on him. 6 weeks older and he’s a 2025 draft pick, he’s very young.

 

[26Mats]

Kyrou can't really play C. He's an all-offense player.

It's not that he can't defend, it's just that he seems to put almost all his effort into scoring. He's very talented, I just don't like the fit with our current core.

Don't we already have our top 2 C's? Wouldn't he be good with Dach?

I'm not saying he's better than what we can get with the assets we'd need to give up to get him. I'm saying wouldn't he be a good addition in a vacuum?

 

[Canadiens98]

Don't we already have our top 2 C's? Wouldn't he be good with Dach?

I'm not saying he's better than what we can get with the assets we'd need to give up to get him. I'm saying wouldn't he be a good addition in a vacuum?

I need to preface by saying it's just my opinion - My concern would be having Caufield and Kyrou on our top 6. It could very well work but I'm not the biggest fan of having 2 players (who'll be playing a cumulative 40ish minutes a night in the playoffs) who are 'less active' when it comes to winning the puck back.

 

[26Mats]

I need to preface by saying it's just my opinion - My concern would be having Caufield and Kyrou on our top 6. It could very well work but I'm not the biggest fan of having 2 players (who'll be playing a cumulative 40ish minutes a night in the playoffs) who are 'less active' when it comes to winning the puck back.

Could be a very legitimate concern.

 

[Canadiens98]

Could be a very legitimate concern.

Caufield made strides last season I'm not trying to knock him, but that area is where he's weakest (he more than makes up for it when we have the puck imo) but can we have 2 of those types of players in the playoffs and have success? I'm really not sure

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Could be a very legitimate concern.

With Kyrou being -38 in 2022/2023 and -12 this past season your concerns are more than just legitimate.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Iginla is imo the Brady Tkachuk of this year. Not in the style of player he is obviously but in the type of pick he is. His ceiling is not as high as some of the other guys but he's a very safe pick with still the potential to be a 40-80 guy. Lidstrom looks like the Byfield of this year again in the type of pick not style of player.

And Catton looks exactly like Cooley type of guy!

Of one them, that's will be huge for Habs future!

 

[salbutera]

He doesn't suck but he's not a difference maker either. He's not going to move any needle for us. Yes the pick represent a risk but there's a reward coming with the risk and that reward is better than Jordan Kyrou if you draft the right guy. There's not much doubt imo that at least 2-3 guys drafted between 5th and 15th will be better player than Kyrou overall and like Mrb1p said that player will be younger and cost contrllled for a longer period of time. I'm not even a gambler type of guy i'm very logical and boring and i take the risk with the pick.

Top 5 picks are rarely traded and there's a reason for that. Here's a list of 5th overall picks thru the years you'll see on average you get a pretty good player and here and there an elite one so unless you get an elite player there's not much reason to make a trade involving a 5th overall pick. Not sure i'd call Kyrou an elite player pesonally there's a good chance our pick develop around his skill level.

5th overall thru the years :

2000 – Raffi Torres (LW, New York Islanders)
2001 – Stanislav Chistov (LW, Anaheim Ducks)
2002 – Ryan Whitney (D, Pittsburgh Penguins)
2003 – Tomas Vanek (LW, Buffalo Sabres)
2004 – Blake Wheeler (RW, Phoenix Coyotes)
2005 – Carey Price (G, Montréal Canadiens)
2006 – Phil Kessel (RW, Boston Bruins)
2007 – Karl Alzner (D, Washington Capitals)
2008 – Luke Schenn (D, Toronto Maple Leafs)
2009 – Brayden Schenn (C, Los Angeles Kings)
2010 – Nino Niederreiter (RW, New York Islanders)
2011 – Ryan Strome (C, New York Islanders)
2012 – Morgan Reilly (D, Toronto Maple Leafs)
2013 – Elias Lindholm (C, Carolina Hurricanes)
2014 – Michael Dal Colle (LW, New York Islanders)
2015 – Noah Hanifin (D, Carolina Hurricanes)
2016 – Olli Juolevi (D, Vancouver Canucks)
2017 – Elias Pettersson (C, Vancouver Canucks)
2018 – Barrett Hayton (C, Arizona Coyotes)
2019 – Alex Turcotte (C, Los Angeles Kings)
2020 – Jake Sanderson (D, Ottawa Senators)
2021 – Kent Johnson (C, Columbus Blue Jackets)

Maybe I’m being too harsh… I count 2-Elite players in 22-drafts: Price & Pettersson, thus far

 

[LaP]

Maybe I’m being too harsh… I count 2-Elite players in 22-drafts: Price & Pettersson, thus far

Kessel was borderline elite. Let's just say he was certainly better than Kyrou.

About half of those players are (give or take) as good or better as Kyrou though and that's my point. I'd say If you have around 50% chances to get someone as good as Kyrou and around 10-15% chances to get an elite player then i'll try my luck.

I think people who think (there's many on this board) that we are just one Kyrou away from winning are as delusional as Dorion was when he tried to win last summer. We need prime elite skills and Kyrou is not elite skills. Unless you can get clear as day elite skills (mid 20ies) for a package made of dunno Mailloux and the 5th then i'm personally not doing it.

That 5th is our best trade asset. I can't begin to understand why anyone would trade our best asset for Kyrou. It's like when Atkins traded Moreno for Vasrho. He had to get a top of the line hitter and his best asset was Moreno. He traded his best asset for a guy who while good was not good enough. That 5th is not moving unless the return is a solid clear as day ppg+ player in his mid 20ies.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Maybe I’m being too harsh… I count 2-Elite players in 22-drafts: Price & Pettersson, thus far

Kessel and Wheeler were solid player. Reilly is a #1D, Hanifin is a solid def maybe better than Reilly overall. Sanderson is developing into a top pairing defenseman for Ottawa.

You def can get a core player a #5.

 

[FerrisRox]

Kessel and Wheeler were solid player. Reilly is a #1D, Hanifin is a solid def maybe better than Reilly overall. Sanderson is developing into a top pairing defenseman for Ottawa.

You def can get a core player a #5.

Reilly is not a #1 defenseman on a good team and I would definitely say Hanafin is a better blueliner.

 

[vokiel]

With Kyrou being -38 in 2022/2023 and -12 this past season your concerns are more than just legitimate.

And yet some people want Keller with the same shitty stats... As a winger no less.