Jordin Tootoo

[lilidk]

So many forwards , someone should go. Last person I wont to see leaving it is Tootoo. I don't care if he fights or not , but he brings a lot of energy, plays very hard. Why not use him for penalty kills

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[The Zetterberg Era]

So many forwards , someone should go. Last person I wont to see leaving it is Tootoo. I don't care if he fights or not , but he brings a lot of energy, plays very hard. Why not use him for penalty kills

Have asked for years why Tootoo isn't a pk guy. Used to ask it when he was coming up in the AHL with Milwaukee. He would seem to have the right things for it, speed, a willingness to sacrifice his body, but alas he has never known how to do it. That ship has likely sailed, he should have demanded it when he was younger or the Preds organization should have demanded it out of him. It is likely going to cost him a couple years off of his career.

Tootoo is a crowd favorite, I get it, have seen it for basically a decade now. He is also a mediocre player most of the time he is on ice. He has some offensive ability, but he takes a lot of momentum killing penalties and doesn't really provide the energy his fans like to put out there. I have enjoyed watching him, but our coach doesn't like him and he isn't the first coach not to trust him either. His icetime used to plummet in big games clear back to the AHL when he did play bigger minutes.

The good news also on Tootoo is I fully believe he will be claimed. Someone will likely do it, if he does clear waivers I think he should be trained to PK down there, it is high time he finally learns how to do it. It should have happened a long time ago, but when you don't do it in the minors or I don't even know if he did in juniors, tough to see him getting that opportunity right now. Especially when we have PK killers sent from God to help us like Dan Cleary.

 

[SoupNazi]

I wish he'd learn to PK - he'd be useful in the playoffs if he did. But he hasn't, and for that reason he probably doesn't have a spot on this team anymore.

I like Tootoo, and don't get me wrong - I like him a lot. But if it's a choice between him or someone better, well then I guess it's time Tootoo leaves.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

He doesn't bring anything to the lineup. That requires you to play games. Tootoo is worthless.

 

[newfy]

Have asked for years why Tootoo isn't a pk guy. Used to ask it when he was coming up in the AHL with Milwaukee. He would seem to have the right things for it, speed, a willingness to sacrifice his body, but alas he has never known how to do it. That ship has likely sailed, he should have demanded it when he was younger or the Preds organization should have demanded it out of him. It is likely going to cost him a couple years off of his career.

Tootoo is a crowd favorite, I get it, have seen it for basically a decade now. He is also a mediocre player most of the time he is on ice. He has some offensive ability, but he takes a lot of momentum killing penalties and doesn't really provide the energy his fans like to put out there. I have enjoyed watching him, but our coach doesn't like him and he isn't the first coach not to trust him either. His icetime used to plummet in big games clear back to the AHL when he did play bigger minutes.

The good news also on Tootoo is I fully believe he will be claimed. Someone will likely do it, if he does clear waivers I think he should be trained to PK down there, it is high time he finally learns how to do it. It should have happened a long time ago, but when you don't do it in the minors or I don't even know if he did in juniors, tough to see him getting that opportunity right now. Especially when we have PK killers sent from God to help us like Dan Cleary.

I dont know why some people assume the coach doesnt like him, he played him 42 games last year.

As for the penalties that all BS as well. He had a better ratio of penalties drawn to penalties taken last year than a lot of guys on the team including Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterberg and a bunch of others.

I dont know why people think he should have to be able to PK or anything, the guy can produce offense for a fourth liner better than any of the other ones and hits harder than almost any other forward in the league. I actually think if hes the one traded its more to do with Holland not liking players who fight than anything.

Tootoo put up 30 points the year before he came here, Drew Miller and Eaves put up less than that but for some reason they get a pass because theyre mediocre PKers. If guys like Weiss are gonna PK why does every fourth liner have to. Doesnt make sense

 

[Winger98]

I dont know why some people assume the coach doesnt like him, he played him 42 games last year.

As for the penalties that all BS as well. He had a better ratio of penalties drawn to penalties taken last year than a lot of guys on the team including Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterberg and a bunch of others.

I dont know why people think he should have to be able to PK or anything, the guy can produce offense for a fourth liner better than any of the other ones and hits harder than almost any other forward in the league. I actually think if hes the one traded its more to do with Holland not liking players who fight than anything.

Tootoo put up 30 points the year before he came here, Drew Miller and Eaves put up less than that but for some reason they get a pass because theyre mediocre PKers. If guys like Weiss are gonna PK why does every fourth liner have to. Doesnt make sense

I think if Tootoo is traded, it's because he's so low on the depth chart. Which is just as much on Babcock as on anyone.

 

[lilidk]

I dont know why people think he should have to be able to PK or anything, the guy can produce offense for a fourth liner better than any of the other ones and hits harder than almost any other forward in the league. I actually think if hes the one traded its more to do with Holland not liking players who fight than anything.

anybody should kill penalties .D and Z kills penalties. Wings let go Hudler and Bruner. both of them very good forwards , but not so good at their end. Maybe it was the main reason why there are not with DRW

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

the 4th line should be miller-helm-tootoo with bert as the spare

this is the only acceptable 4th line

its too bad KH chooses to save face then take a risk and properly trya nd compete

zetts-dats-abdelkader
franzen-weiss-alffie
nyquist-andersson-tatar
miller-helm-tootoo
bertuzzi

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I will throw out I think this is a problem in terms of some of our prospects when we develop them right now. Nyquist and Tatar should be used to kill penalties more often in GR than they are. Jurco right now should be training in it. I mean guys like Pulkkinen and Frk have no future as pk types, but some of these guys do have the skill set to learn this and make their transitions into NHL lineups easier, or at least have that option so people (Babcock or whomever is in charge at that point) cannot use this in a case against them.

Tootoo is a fairly expendable piece on this team, the reality is almost the entire bottom six is so he isn't alone. The difference is he is one of the few I expect to get claimed or is available to be moved and he makes the kind of money we should want to move out for what he is providing.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Tootoo seems positionally challenged at times, which probably doesn't lend itself well to the PK. But I'd like to see it tried.
I'd also like to see a fourth line of Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo when the playoffs begin.

But I'm just wishing for things that aren't going to happen.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

anybody should kill penalties .D and Z kills penalties. Wings let go Hudler and Bruner. both of them very good forwards , but not so good at their end. Maybe it was the main reason why there are not with DRW

But you want your 3rd & 4th liners to be able to PK. It keeps your top offensive guys fresh so they can go & do their thing, which is score. If you have a PP structure like the Wings do, 7 or 8 forwards on the PP, you need your remaining 4 or 5 players to be able to PK or you run the risk of over working your top guys.

It may not seem like a big deal but over the grind of an 82 game season & with the age of our stat players it will take it's toll & we'll see the lack or results come playoff time. It's why you only see Datsyuk & Zetterberg out on the PK in crucial situations, there energy is better spent at 5vs5 or on the PP.

We have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Weiss, Alfredsson, Samuelsson, Cleary & Bertuzzi on the PP. That leaves us with Andersson, Miller, Emmerton & Abdelkader to PK regularly. They all bring around the same offensive output as Tootoo, or are centers, & they can play the PK well. Personally I value that more than the toughness/fighting ability that Tootoo brings.

 

[Winger98]

Tootoo seems positionally challenged at times, which probably doesn't lend itself well to the PK. But I'd like to see it tried.
I'd also like to see a fourth line of Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo when the playoffs begin.

But I'm just wishing for things that aren't going to happen.

Helm being healthy?

 

[SoupNazi]

the 4th line should be miller-helm-tootoo with bert as the spare

this is the only acceptable 4th line

its too bad KH chooses to save face then take a risk and properly trya nd compete

zetts-dats-abdelkader
franzen-weiss-alffie
nyquist-andersson-tatar
miller-helm-tootoo
bertuzzi

That would require a healthy Helm, and nobody knows when we'll see that.

The other problem is that even if Holland gives Babcock that exact roster, I don't see him sitting Bertuzzi when he's got Tatar that he can sit.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

That would require a healthy Helm, and nobody knows when we'll see that.

The other problem is that even if Holland gives Babcock that exact roster, I don't see him sitting Bertuzzi when he's got Tatar that he can sit.

true regarding helm

and probably true regarding tatar

 

[newfy]

We have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Weiss, Alfredsson, Samuelsson, Cleary & Bertuzzi on the PP. That leaves us with Andersson, Miller, Emmerton & Abdelkader to PK regularly. They all bring around the same offensive output as Tootoo, or are centers, & they can play the PK well. Personally I value that more than the toughness/fighting ability that Tootoo brings.

Problem is that you dont need every single 4th liner to PK. As for saying guys like Emmerton and even Miller are anything special on the PK is questionable. If Holland wants a bottom 6 that can PK he should get guys that are above average at it. Helm helps a lot of hes healthy but any other time none of those guys can be trusted to PK.

Tootoo can be counted on to provide energy which is extremely lacking on the team. He provides a lot of speed and can absolutely destroy dmen on the forecheck. I'll take a guy like that over one of those bottom 6ers that are mediocre on the PK.

Andersson, Helm, Abdelkader, Miller is good enough for guys to PK. Because if needed Weiss, Datsyuk or Zetterberg can also take one shift here or there. You dont need Emmerton, Eaves and Miller all on the team out there to PK when none are even that great at it. At least there are a couple roles that Tootoo can be considered great at. Hes one of the better in the league at drawing penalties and his ratio is one of the best on the wings for penalties taken vs drawn. And hes one of the only guys that goes out and creates energy at all. Whether its just speeding around out there (especially when Helm is back), throwing big hits (one of the hjardest hitters in the league) or getting in a fight. All those things combined with the fact that hes our best offensive fourth liner would make me keep him over one mediocre PKer

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I like Tootoo. He brings energy and isn't just a completely useless goon, he's a solid forechecker too. He brings more to the 4th line than Sammy does.

It's a shame he's likely to be traded or waived.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Part of Tootoo's problem is he makes what Miller and Emmerton do combined pretty much. Since we are tight to the cap that is a problem when you want to compare him to those other fourth line guys. It is also likely movable unlike Sammy who we all would rather part with.

But Tootoo (1.9) makes more than

Abdelkader (1.8)
Cleary (1.75)
Miller (1.35)
Eaves (1.2)
Emmerton (533K)
Andersson (732K)
Tatar (600K+ 210 bonuses)
Nyquist (950K)


You also get out from under his 1.9 next year, not hard to see why they have zeroed in on his contract given his likelihood of not passing through waivers and what it does for the future and present flexibility of a player your coach only wants to put on ice for 8 minutes a night and not play in the playoffs.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Problem is that you dont need every single 4th liner to PK. As for saying guys like Emmerton and even Miller are anything special on the PK is questionable. If Holland wants a bottom 6 that can PK he should get guys that are above average at it. Helm helps a lot of hes healthy but any other time none of those guys can be trusted to PK.

I disagree with that idea we may not have a great pker but our guys are very serviceable. Miller is a great PKer & if we were to trade him who takes his minutes? He is currently ranked 2nd on the team in SH TOI/G with 2:31 a game, only Andersson is ahead of him. I was also wrong when I said that Abdelkader was on the PK so far this year he hasn't played a single second on the PK, he played 30 seconds last year.

Let alone the idea of moving Emmerton before we know the status of Helm. Emmerton isn't even competing with Tootoo for a spot on the team. Tootoo isn't competing with Tatar, Miller, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson & Cleary for ice time.

Tootoo can be counted on to provide energy which is extremely lacking on the team. He provides a lot of speed and can absolutely destroy dmen on the forecheck. I'll take a guy like that over one of those bottom 6ers that are mediocre on the PK.

That's pretty much all he can do though, that & he's lucky charging isn't called more in the NHL. He's at his best when he is on the forecheck & he's able to cause mayhem down low. He's not much of a fighter & he doesn't pick his spots well from what I saw last year.

He'll play 8-10 minutes of ES a night & that's it. I'd much rather have one of our pkers out there & taking a shift on the PK so that Dats, Z & Weiss can rest.

Andersson, Helm, Abdelkader, Miller is good enough for guys to PK

We don't even know if Helm will be back this year & if he is there's not telling what he'll play like, he's been off the ice for pretty much a full year now. Abdelkader also doesn't PK so we have to replace him with someone else, though it's no different than what we have right now.

Because if needed Weiss, Datsyuk or Zetterberg can also take one shift here or there. You dont need Emmerton, Eaves and Miller all on the team out there to PK when none are even that great at it.

Tootoo isn't competing with Weiss, Datsyuk or Zetterberg for minutes. Datsyuk is already playing 1:50 SH TOI/G, Weiss is at 1:23 & Zetterberg is at 1:18. We already are giving these guys a pretty regular shift on the PK, taking away Miller's 2:31 means that we have to add on another 30+ seconds to their time spent on the PK or give it to someone else, Franzen, Alfredsson.

IIRC Eaves isn't cleared yet so he's not someone Tootoo has to pass. If Helm comes back & is at 100% then we'll see Emmerton get waived but it has no baring on Tootoo's spot in the lineup.

At least there are a couple roles that Tootoo can be considered great at. Hes one of the better in the league at drawing penalties and his ratio is one of the best on the wings for penalties taken vs drawn.

Part of it is because of the low minutes he plays, the more minutes you play the more likely you are to approach the mean. He was the best forward on the Wings last year for Penalties Drawn/60 with 1.7, which means over an 82 game season he would have had 21 penalties taken against him, but he also had the 2nd highest Penalties Taken/60 with 1.3, over a course of an 82 game season he'd have taken 16 penalties. He has a net gain of 5 penalties and when you factor in our PP%(21 x 23.7% = 5) & PK% (16 x 81.7% = 3)we were +2 in special team goals due to Tootoo, pretty much a negligible difference.

And hes one of the only guys that goes out and creates energy at all.

I'd rather see Tatar & Nyquist in the lineup over Cleary/Bertuzzi/Samuelsson & that alone brings us more energy, let alone the new scoring line we'd have.

Whether its just speeding around out there (especially when Helm is back), throwing big hits (one of the hardest hitters in the league) or getting in a fight.

He's fast & great on the forecheck there's no denying that & he's good at throwing his weight around but outside of that he doesn't bring much else. He's not great defensively, and he's not a great fighter & as I mentioned above he didn't pick his spots well last year & he always goes for those stupid staged fights, that is enough for me to want him out of the lineup.

All those things combined with the fact that hes our best offensive fourth liner would make me keep him over one mediocre PKer

I'm not looking for that much offence from my 4th line. I want guys that can play a steady game, pk, hold their own offensively & just give the top guys a break every now & then. If the players are able to chip in offensively that's great but in the role they're going to be playing in & with the minutes that come with it I don't expect them to put up many points.

And when you factor in his salary it's, imo, a very easy choice on who you play & you keep.

 

[newfy]

I disagree with that idea we may not have a great pker but our guys are very serviceable. Miller is a great PKer & if we were to trade him who takes his minutes? He is currently ranked 2nd on the team in SH TOI/G with 2:31 a game, only Andersson is ahead of him. I was also wrong when I said that Abdelkader was on the PK so far this year he hasn't played a single second on the PK, he played 30 seconds last year.

Let alone the idea of moving Emmerton before we know the status of Helm. Emmerton isn't even competing with Tootoo for a spot on the team. Tootoo isn't competing with Tatar, Miller, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson & Cleary for ice time.



That's pretty much all he can do though, that & he's lucky charging isn't called more in the NHL. He's at his best when he is on the forecheck & he's able to cause mayhem down low. He's not much of a fighter & he doesn't pick his spots well from what I saw last year.

He'll play 8-10 minutes of ES a night & that's it. I'd much rather have one of our pkers out there & taking a shift on the PK so that Dats, Z & Weiss can rest.



We don't even know if Helm will be back this year & if he is there's not telling what he'll play like, he's been off the ice for pretty much a full year now. Abdelkader also doesn't PK so we have to replace him with someone else, though it's no different than what we have right now.



Tootoo isn't competing with Weiss, Datsyuk or Zetterberg for minutes. Datsyuk is already playing 1:50 SH TOI/G, Weiss is at 1:23 & Zetterberg is at 1:18. We already are giving these guys a pretty regular shift on the PK, taking away Miller's 2:31 means that we have to add on another 30+ seconds to their time spent on the PK or give it to someone else, Franzen, Alfredsson.

IIRC Eaves isn't cleared yet so he's not someone Tootoo has to pass. If Helm comes back & is at 100% then we'll see Emmerton get waived but it has no baring on Tootoo's spot in the lineup.



Part of it is because of the low minutes he plays, the more minutes you play the more likely you are to approach the mean. He was the best forward on the Wings last year for Penalties Drawn/60 with 1.7, which means over an 82 game season he would have had 21 penalties taken against him, but he also had the 2nd highest Penalties Taken/60 with 1.3, over a course of an 82 game season he'd have taken 16 penalties. He has a net gain of 5 penalties and when you factor in our PP%(21 x 23.7% = 5) & PK% (16 x 81.7% = 3)we were +2 in special team goals due to Tootoo, pretty much a negligible difference.



I'd rather see Tatar & Nyquist in the lineup over Cleary/Bertuzzi/Samuelsson & that alone brings us more energy, let alone the new scoring line we'd have.



He's fast & great on the forecheck there's no denying that & he's good at throwing his weight around but outside of that he doesn't bring much else. He's not great defensively, and he's not a great fighter & as I mentioned above he didn't pick his spots well last year & he always goes for those stupid staged fights, that is enough for me to want him out of the lineup.



I'm not looking for that much offence from my 4th line. I want guys that can play a steady game, pk, hold their own offensively & just give the top guys a break every now & then. If the players are able to chip in offensively that's great but in the role they're going to be playing in & with the minutes that come with it I don't expect them to put up many points.

And when you factor in his salary it's, imo, a very easy choice on who you play & you keep.

I wouldnt get rid of Miller out of the guys on the fourth line. I think hes definitely better than Emmerton and Eaves now but to say hes a great PKer is really pushing it. As soon as guys like him were the ones that started playing the wings PK regularly they went from a very good PK to the lower half of the league.

Thats one thing I cant stand about a large part of the wings fan base. Guys like Miller and Eaves play the PK regularly so we say theyre good on the PK. Maybe compared to Franzen or Tatar but league wide these guys are not anything special, theyre your average bottom 6ers who do nothing spectacularly but you can put on a PK and they do alright.

And how can you say youre not looking for offense from your fourth line guys? If you can have guys on the fourth line scoring the odd goal it decreases the ice you need to give to guys like Dats and Z just as much as a PKer does

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I wouldnt get rid of Miller out of the guys on the fourth line. I think hes definitely better than Emmerton and Eaves now but to say hes a great PKer is really pushing it. As soon as guys like him were the ones that started playing the wings PK regularly they went from a very good PK to the lower half of the league.

Last year Miller lead the Wings in SH TOI/G, the next 4 was Emmerton, Datsyuk, Zetterberg & Andersson. We were 12th in the league in PK%.

In 11-12 we were 17th in the league, 0.3% behind 15th, our top 5 Pkers were Helm, Miller, Cleary, Abdelkader & Datsyuk.

In 10-11 we were 17th in the league, 0.5% behind 14th place. Our top 5 PKers were Helm, Miller, Eaves, Abdelkader & Cleary.

In 09-10 we were 10th in the league. Our top 5 PKers were Helm, Eaves, Miller, Maltby & Cleary.

Since Miller & Eaves have been on the team we've been on average 14th in the league in PKing. It's not good but it's not bad, it's slightly above average though & if we had allowed 1 or 2 less power play goals it would likely be higher.

Thats one thing I cant stand about a large part of the wings fan base. Guys like Miller and Eaves play the PK regularly so we say theyre good on the PK. Maybe compared to Franzen or Tatar but league wide these guys are not anything special, theyre your average bottom 6ers who do nothing spectacularly but you can put on a PK and they do alright.

Who are the elite PKers in the league? What makes Kruger & Frolik better than Miller & Anderrson? PKing is almost just as much about the system as it is about the players that are on it.

And how can you say youre not looking for offense from your fourth line guys? If you can have guys on the fourth line scoring the odd goal it decreases the ice you need to give to guys like Dats and Z just as much as a PKer does

When I say I'm not looking for offence I mean I'm not looking for their main feature to be production. They can still be worth their money even if they don't score because it's not their man role on the team.

If my 4th line guys chip in 5-10 goals & 15-25 points while being a main part of our PK I'm happy with them. Heck even if they only get 10 or so points while being a defensive stalwart like McClement, Guastad or Maltby I'd be happy.

It's not like Miller isn't able to score & put up points he's been on pace for 20+ point seasons. Eaves has also produced at a higher rate throughout his career & pre-concussion he was what you wanted in a bottom sixer. By having Miller & Eaves they're able to chip in offensively & eat the big PK minutes, killing 2 birds with one stone.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Problem is that you dont need every single 4th liner to PK. As for saying guys like Emmerton and even Miller are anything special on the PK is questionable. If Holland wants a bottom 6 that can PK he should get guys that are above average at it. Helm helps a lot of hes healthy but any other time none of those guys can be trusted to PK.

Tootoo can be counted on to provide energy which is extremely lacking on the team. He provides a lot of speed and can absolutely destroy dmen on the forecheck. I'll take a guy like that over one of those bottom 6ers that are mediocre on the PK.

Andersson, Helm, Abdelkader, Miller is good enough for guys to PK. Because if needed Weiss, Datsyuk or Zetterberg can also take one shift here or there. You dont need Emmerton, Eaves and Miller all on the team out there to PK when none are even that great at it. At least there are a couple roles that Tootoo can be considered great at. Hes one of the better in the league at drawing penalties and his ratio is one of the best on the wings for penalties taken vs drawn. And hes one of the only guys that goes out and creates energy at all. Whether its just speeding around out there (especially when Helm is back), throwing big hits (one of the hjardest hitters in the league) or getting in a fight. All those things combined with the fact that hes our best offensive fourth liner would make me keep him over one mediocre PKer

I am with you Newfy. I think most Wings fans are delusional when it comes to fourth line players. They somehow think that we will be able to assemble a batch of semi-skilled guys who are capable of consistently moving the puck through the neutral zone and gaining the offensive zone without turning over the puck. There is not a fourth line in this league capable of doing that, especially in the cap era.

You need your fourth line to forecheck like hell and grind down your opposition with speed and physicality. A fourth line generates offense by causing the opposition's defense to cough up the puck in their own zone. This will not happen if: (a) your fourth line is too damn slow (see Detroit Redwings circa October, 2013) or, (b) no one on your fourth line is willing to hit anyone. Tootoo may not have hands, but he sure as **** is capable of playing the prototypical fourth liner's game. Take a look at our current third line for example. Do you think they make life hard on the opposition's defense in their own zone? Hell no! First, they lack speed, second, they know that Bert and Andy are not going to hit them because doing so requires starting and stopping. Bert hasn't hit anyone on the forecheck since the Clinton administration. They know that they can comfortably move the puck before Danny boy can even get to them.

The Wings have fielded a fourth line of spare parts for a number of years now. I find it odd that people are so dismissive of one of the few true, bottom six players that we have on the roster.

 

[bababooeyII]

well said you two

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I am with you Newfy. I think most Wings fans are delusional when it comes to fourth line players. They somehow think that we will be able to assemble a batch of semi-skilled guys who are capable of consistently moving the puck through the neutral zone and gaining the offensive zone without turning over the puck. There is not a fourth line in this league capable of doing that, especially in the cap era.

I disagree that you won't find a 4th line that can do it. Take a look at Chicago's 4th line from last year's playoffs, they didn't have a single player that played less then 10 minutes ES a game that didn't PK or play the PP. If you want to be in the bottom six you have to bring something besides energy at ES.

You need your fourth line to forecheck like hell and grind down your opposition with speed and physicality. A fourth line generates offense by causing the opposition's defense to cough up the puck in their own zone.

Your traditional 4th line would do that but you could also have your 3rd line do it. You don't have to have that type of 4th line to be successful so long as you have a line in the bottom 6 that is capable of bringing that element of physicality. My ideal bottom six is: Miller-Helm-Bertuzzi & Nyquist-Andersson-Tatar. That 1st line brings enough skill & grit to be effective & then we have our offensive 4th line that would create a match up nightmare for other teams.

This will not happen if: (a) your fourth line is too damn slow (see Detroit Redwings circa October, 2013) or, (b) no one on your fourth line is willing to hit anyone. Tootoo may not have hands, but he sure as **** is capable of playing the prototypical fourth liner's game.

I'm definitely not supporting the current make up of our bottom 6, I don't like it all & due to the players there we aren't able to generate any kind of offence or defence. The thing is that Tootoo isn't in my ideal bottom 6 lineup a) He doesn't PK b) He has no role on this team & c) He's the easiest player to put on waivers. When everyone is healthy Tootoo & his 1.9M will be move 1 way or another, he's not productive enough to play on the scoring bottom 6 line & he doesn't PK so he shouldn't be on the defensive line either.

Take a look at our current third line for example. Do you think they make life hard on the opposition's defense in their own zone?

As I said above I don't like the bottom 6 & who it is currently constructed but it's obvious that Babcock expects the players that are playing there to be able to contribute either on the PP or the PK, Tootoo would play on neither.

The Wings have fielded a fourth line of spare parts for a number of years now. I find it odd that people are so dismissive of one of the few true, bottom six players that we have on the roster.

You mean like our 4th line was in 07-08? We had Drake, who even in his last legs played the PK, Maltby, he also played the PK, & Helm, who was the young center. That to me looks like a pretty rag tag group of 4th liners. The only 2 forwards on the entire cup winning team that didn't play on any special teams was McCarthy, he played only 6:22 a game, & Helm, he only played 7:25.

The point is that if you're in the bottom six, and not a center, you should be able to play on either the PP or the PK. Very few teams have bottom six wingers that don't play either.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Guys like Miller and Eaves are a dime a dozen.
If you can't walk away from them, then who can you walk away from?

 

[BinCookin]

Guys like Miller and Eaves are a dime a dozen.
If you can't walk away from them, then who can you walk away from?

Simple: Tootoo.

Makes too much money for his role. He is expendable because he is PAID to be on the 3rd line. And we clearly don't want him there.