Jonathan Toews

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Toews ain't going anywhere.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Toews ain't going anywhere.

I know, which is a mistake.

 

[ndgt10]

I'm all for dumping Toews. Stop living in the past.

 

[stahl]

Our team would be a lot worse without Toews. I just think it's time to put him and Kane back together.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Are team would be a lot worse without Toews. I just think it's time to put him and Kane back together.

Cat-Toews-Kane is instantly one of the top lines in the league

 

[BobbyJet]

I know, which is a mistake.

I thought I'd never say this but I agree. And worse, Hawks would likely retain a major part of Toew's contract in order to move him - Yikes.- it's not very likely. Toew is a Hawks lifetimer, I reckon.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Cat-Toews-Kane is instantly one of the top lines in the league

It’s this or Toews on the third line, imo

 

[Blackhawks]

What if some team is willing to take Toews without expecting the Hawks to retain, who here would pull the trigger?

 

[Kevin Musto]

What if some team is willing to take Toews without expecting the Hawks to retain, who here would pull the trigger?

Not me. Toews is a Hawk for life.

 

[Pez68]

Cat-Toews-Kane is instantly one of the top lines in the league

Probably.

But this is called the nuclear option, and something coach Q only utilizes down 3-1 in a series.

 

[crazyhawk]

I'm all for dumping Toews. Stop living in the past.

Unless it's a Toews and Crawford for Price and Patches ( or Galchenyuk ) type trade I can't see Toews going anywhere.
I understand Hawk fan's unhappiness with where Toews is currently at regarding his level of play.
The reality though is that our core ( except of course Kane due to his style of play and lack of hits taken ) is squarely on the slope downwards.
Look at Toews, Seabrook, Keith and Hammer and though a bizarre case Hossa ... they have all gone to war and came out on top 3 times with a couple more WCF's for most of them. The human body can only withstand so much abuse before it begins to slow down. I still feel that Toews has taken so many hits that the PTSD effects of not only major hits to the head but repeated mini hits to the body have taken away his ability to process at a high level.
Think of the body with all the organs inside much like a bumper car ... and that bumper car is going at 3 times the speed and is bumping and grinding for 20 minutes every other day for 8-9 months with the last 1.5 months or so being ampted up another 2x for the playoffs and this has been going on for 10 years for our core. The brain being the precious jewel, there's also all the other organs constantly being jostled and jarred. Concussion study is still really in it's infancy in a lot of ways and they say that all the little hits are even more damaging than the big ones ... like Mitchell's open ice hit on Toews back in the day. These guys have all gone to war for the team, it's city and fans. They have brought home the chalice 3 times. They may all be living with the effects of the physical abuse they have endured for the rest of their lives.

 

[Jay haller]

Lol, toews was ehh last year but at least he didn’t phone it in like Kane did at stretches last year.

 

[Blackhawks]

Lol, toews was ehh last year but at least he didn’t phone it in like Kane did at stretches last year.

 

[BK]

Lol, toews was ehh last year but at least he didn’t phone it in like Kane did at stretches last year.

Really?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I'm all for dumping Toews. Stop living in the past.

Please, it's not living in the past, it's realistic. Toews would be difficult to trade with his cap hit and especially term even if he was still in his prime (as would any other player making a similar amount). Trading him now would be borderline impossible even if we retained half his salary.

Love it or hate it, Toews is almost assuredly a Hawk for the duration of his contract. Move on from any expectation otherwise.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Please, it's not living in the past, it's realistic. Toews would be difficult to trade with his cap hit and especially term even if he was still in his prime (as would any other player making a similar amount). Trading him now would be borderline impossible even if we retained half his salary.

Love it or hate it, Toews is almost assuredly a Hawk for the duration of his contract. Move on from any expectation otherwise.

If they retained half they'd get a f***ing HAUL for Toews.

 

[AmericanDream]

I think time after time people on here, just have no flipping clue how the NHL works and what actual GMs covet.

I have been hard on Toews for the past few years, but make no mistake, there are teams out there trying to take advantage of us and kicking tires on this guy...he is a proven winner and leader, a lot of teams would do a lot to STILL get a player like Toews.

I get it, that this post won't be liked by the pure haters, and will overreact and say I am crazy because you really didn't read what I am saying, as I am not saying that every team WOULD take him, but there would be a number of teams out there that would put some very legitimate offers on the table for him, and these teams see the opportunity still there with this guy. Hawks would be selling on the low point right now, and the offers wouldn't be as great as they would have been 4 years ago, but when an over the hill 1 year rental in Rick Nash can land a bounty, trust me, Toews still has value to actual GMs....it just wouldn't be worth it to move him as what we would get back would likely be picks/prospects and nothing to help step in right away which I do not want to see.

 

[Rolo]

I would love to see Toews in Colorado if he were to be moved. He'd be 2C behind MacKinnon (imo perfect fit).

To Colorado: Jonathan Toews
To Chicago: Colin Wilson, Conor Timmins, Vladislav Kamenev, 2019 Col 1st (top 10 protected)

Jost - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Landeskog - Toews - Andrighetto
Kerfoot - Soderberg - Comeau
Nieto - Compher - Greer

However, trading Toews would mean we are starting a rebuild/retool. I don't see any logical 1 for 1 trades (ie Weber for Subban) that would make sense/benefit the team.

 

[AmericanDream]

I would love to see Toews in Colorado if he were to be moved. He'd be 2C behind MacKinnon (imo perfect fit).

To Colorado: Jonathan Toews
To Chicago: Colin Wilson, Conor Timmins, Vladislav Kamenev, 2019 Col 1st (top 10 protected)

Jost - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Landeskog - Toews - Andrighetto
Kerfoot - Soderberg - Comeau
Nieto - Compher - Greer

However, trading Toews would mean we are starting a rebuild/retool. I don't see any logical 1 for 1 trades (ie Weber for Subban) that would make sense/benefit the team.

this is exactly the kind of offer/situation you would see for the Hawks with Toews. It would be a team that has plenty of room like the Yotes, Lanche, Knights, Montreal (who seem to be moving out some $$$), and what we would get back would be a nice package of younger players/picks...with very little retention here.

as you said, it just doesn't do us much good as the value isn't enough for us to move him right now, and though the package is a decent offer, we can't move Toews for that just yet. he can bounce back, happens all the time..he has played the hardest and most minutes of any forward over the past 10 years..bodies need to rest and heal as does the mind, now that we have been out the past few years pretty early, the hunger likely will start coming back for some of these guys to want to win again as it is missed now...

I want to keep Toews, but those that think he doesn't have any takers are insane, offers like this would be coming in and likely are by a good number of NHL teams wanting this guy on the buy low...

 

[hawksfan50]

What is a bounce back after 3 consecutive less than even pre'$10.5 from Toews? WELL...nobody expects anywhere near $10.5 production which according g to the normal GM rule is $1 million for every 10 points...With points on the 50s the last 3 seasons he should not be getting g over $6 million at this level of production ...But you say the "intangibles" and the 3 Cups premium?So that takes it up to no mote than $8.5 which means he needs to produce 85 points ...never gonna happen. ..


The best we can hope for is his normal expectation of the $6.3 years ...which means about 70 points of which is made up of 28-32 goals and 38-40 assists ...plus an expected +25 or more for the +/- ...if he cannot give these "normal" per the $6.3 years type performance and stays bin the 50s and under +15 then he is a pretty sad version of a #1 C and should not longer have that job providing we can add better.Which us why we must draft more Centre's in round 1 ...1. To replace Toews if not now by 2-3 years from now as our 1C and he goes to a blower line ...and 2. for real depthvdownbthe middle. ..because 1 Centre at 50 points is lousy for a contender
..but three 50 point and 1 35 point Centre would provide balanced 4 line scoring ...and makes us difficult to beat..The thinking was that Toews was a real super star for 80-100 points and our 2nd Centre was 50 points and our 3rd was 30 poi ts and our 4th was 15 points and this would be great..but the fact is Toewsvis stuck I the 50s ...Schatz can be 50-60 but is a liability on draws and in defending in his own zone and our 3rd andAnisimov cannot pile up assists unless he is with Kane and a Scoring g WI her so he is useless as a play-maker and on draws too..So we have 2 more fled centers.. We need to establish compensation for the position and we need 4 competent centre's all good on draws and all who can score 20-30 goals in a 4 line balanced attack ...Toews
has his NMC and big cushy contract security and went off lazy on us..the exertion not there for 60/82 games instead we get 22 of 82 where he decides that he wants to exert to the level it takes to produce an impact on the game ..So then only fix is to hope he rebounds (no evidence for 3rd consecutive seasons) or to add a lot better Centre's than we currently have had ...Ejdsel shows some promise but probably is still only a 3C ..Schatz should be a winger unless he shows he can win draws and shutdown better ..Kahum is unproven at the NHL level and will have to show he can fill the bill...but I for one would start drafting centre's in round 1 to upgrade the talent at Centre starting with Kotkaniemi who could be another Kopitar or Jeff Carter and if we got 10 years of good hockey at the levrlnifvtjose 2 from him then drafting him at #8 would prove to be the best decision Stan made non a long long time .But instead I fear Stan will ignore the C problem...hoii g Tires "rebounds" ..cause if he does not rebound over the next 3 seasons to more that the 50 -58 poi t mediocrity genus then we are not winning anything and Stan will eventually walk the plank .

 

[BK]

according g to the normal GM rule is $1 million for every 10 points

HF50 this is not really a thing and if it were real it is the most asinine baseline ever.

Drafting for need over BPA is a terrible approach in hockey.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I was going through some stats earlier trying to figure out what was different when Toews was successful.

Three seasons in particular caught my eye — 2010-2011, 2011-2012, and 2013-2014. Those are three seasons where Toews was near a point per game player, and started in the offensive zone more than 60% of the time.

In the 10-11 season, he played with Kane and whatever big body on the LW. Toews scored 32 goals and 76 points that year. He took 412 offensive zone draws, and 260 in the defensive zone — a 61.63 offensive zone start percentage.

In 11-12, nearly 65% of his draws came in the offensive zone, and he was nearly a point per game player.

In 13-14, nearly 64% of his draws came in the offensive zone, and he put up 68 points.

That season was the last time Toews would have an offensive zone start percentage above 60%, and was the last time he’d see fewer than 300 defensive zone starts. His offensive production also trended downward over the next four seasons.

While he still put up good numbers in the 14-15 season despite a ~56% offensive zone start, and taking more than 300 defensive zone draws for the first time in his career, he did it with future HOFer Marian Hossa. This was the last season Toews took more than 400 offensive zone draws.

This past season, Toews inched close t0 the 400 offensive zone draw mark, but also took the most defensive zone starts of his career — and that added up to a ~55% offensive zone start mark, and his worst offensive production to date.

TL;DR

With the exceptions of an anomaly post-lockout season and Hossa’s last monster season — Toews has played his best hockey getting 400 or more offensive zone starts, getting less than 300 defensive zone starts, and seeing ZS% of 60% or higher. He hasn’t been put in that situation since the 2013-2014 season, the same year his offensive output seemingly peaked.​

 

[CokenoPepsi]

So what you are saying is...the whole "he plays the toughest minutes and the hard match ups" is bs?

I remember people would try and knock Kane down because os starts lol

 

[Hawkaholic]

He does play the tough minutes and hard matchups. Where he starts has little bearing on it. When he was on the away team, the home team sent their best defensive players out against him,when he was at home, he was put up against the other teams best players. He played the most PK mins.

 

[ClydeLee]

So what you are saying is...the whole "he plays the toughest minutes and the hard match ups" is bs?

I remember people would try and knock Kane down because os starts lol

Kanes always higher than him only in the lockout year he wasn't.

Theres weirdness to this where some people don't consider especially when conflating teams how the amount of ozone neutral or d is gonna go by how the teams performing.

Even though one would joke oh the hawks ducked they errant always in the ozone, they were too 4 in corsi totals. They probably had many more o zone draws than dzone which pushes everyone up. Only part time players rotated on the 4th line had Dzone heavy start years and nobody like kruger taking it 3/4ths of his time.