Proposal: Johnson + Killorn + 1st 2022 vs Seattle 2022 6th rd pick

[samsagat]

Seattle have 30 mil under the cap and needs NHL forwards to complete their roster.

Francis strategy was to keep cap space in order to make those kind of deals.

Since Marleau alone was traded for a 1st, with only one year at 6 mil left on his contract, the deal seams fair to me.

It would be a little more than 9 mil going off the book for TB, would ease their cap problem.

Seattle would get two good NHL players and a 1st pick (close to being a 2nd rd since it's TB).

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[LTIR Trickery]

You can get two rosters players or a player and a first, but not both.

 

[bert]

Seattle have 30 mil under the cap and needs NHL forwards to complete their roster.

Francis strategy was to keep cap space in order to make those kind of deals.

Since Marleau alone was traded for a 1st, with only one year at 6 mil left on his contract, the deal seams fair to me.

It would be a little more than 9 mil going off the book for TB, would ease their cap problem.

Seattle would get two good NHL players and a 1st pick (close to being a 2nd rd since it's TB).

Does Tampa have to trade Killorn to be able to sign their free agents? Correct me if im wrong but I think with Gourde and hypothetically Johnson they would be cap complient?

Killorn is an asset that has value, I think if this is on the table Seattle does it for sure.

 

[samsagat]

Killorn has value for sure but taking the 3 years at 5 for a player like Johnson would cost a lot more than a very late 1st imho, if we refer to other deals alike.

Killorn would be the compensation while freeing up even more cap space.

 

[LordZapp]

Take out Killorn or the 1st.

 

[banks]

Seattle have 30 mil under the cap and needs NHL forwards to complete their roster.

Francis strategy was to keep cap space in order to make those kind of deals.

Since Marleau alone was traded for a 1st, with only one year at 6 mil left on his contract, the deal seams fair to me.

It would be a little more than 9 mil going off the book for TB, would ease their cap problem.

Seattle would get two good NHL players and a 1st pick (close to being a 2nd rd since it's TB).

That's the worst possible comparison for deciding the price of a cap dump. Marleau was buy out proof, couldn't be sent to the minors, refused to waive unless it was SJ or a buyout so he could go to SJ, and the team was at the cap with RFAs left to sign.

There was no other way out for Marleau. Most other situations and the team can continue to ride out the contract or buy them out. But not with Marleau.

The Ladd deal is a more realistic precedent. 2 years of 5.5 million gets a 2nd and 3rd rounder.

 

[samsagat]

Hum, Florida just gave the equivalent of 2 x 2nd rd pick for one year of Stralman at 5,5 mil.

Maybe it will be more expensive than you TB fans think to get rid of Johnson's 3 x 5 mil contract.


P.S.: But I must admit, JB could trade Killorn or Palat and their respective 4,45/5,3 mil salary for actual assets (a little under their real value since no NHL contract would come back) and then sign their depth players like Barre-Boulet, Ross, Foote, ''a cheap NHL 2nd goaler'', etc.. to complete their roster and make it fit under the cap.

No need to overpay to get rid of Johnson's contract, even more since Gourde, a veteran center, is gone to Seattle.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

No chance Seattle does this.


Awful compensation for them for taking on a pair of cap dumps.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No chance Seattle does this.


Awful compensation for them for taking on a pair of cap dumps.

How the hell is Alex Killorn a "cap dump"?

I'd pay legit value for him to get him on my team. Dude's an extremely solid 2nd line winger on a good contract.

 

[Danrs112]

LMFAO yeah you're going to get a reasonably priced top 6 winger and a first for taking a slightly overpriced 3C

 

[HoseEmDown]

Hum, Florida just gave the equivalent of 2 x 2nd rd pick for one year of Stralman at 5,5 mil.

Maybe it will be more expensive than you TB fans think to get rid of Johnson's 3 x 5 mil contract.


P.S.: But I must admit, JB could trade Killorn or Palat and their respective 4,45/5,3 mil salary for actual assets (a little under their real value since no NHL contract would come back) and then sign their depth players like Barre-Boulet, Ross, Foote, ''a cheap NHL 2nd goaler'', etc.. to complete their roster and make it fit under the cap.

No need to overpay to get rid of Johnson's contract, even more since Gourde, a veteran center, is gone to Seattle.

And LA traded a 2nd + 3rd for Arvidsson who has put up similar number's to Johnson the past few seasons, both have 3 years left on their deals with Arvidsson only 750k less. The Stralman trade is not the comparable.

 

[DFC]

No chance Seattle does this.


Awful compensation for them for taking on a pair of cap dumps.

Killorn isn't a cap dump. Johnson, sure, but Killorn produces above his contract and is one of the better playoff performers you're gonna find.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Not interested in moving Killorn. We already lost enough forwards and he has a pretty big role on the team. I get the lack of appeal because of his leg injury but he is great value for his cap hit.

 

[samsagat]

And LA traded a 2nd + 3rd for Arvidsson who has put up similar number's to Johnson the past few seasons, both have 3 years left on their deals with Arvidsson only 750k less. The Stralman trade is not the comparable.

Hum, if Johnson would've been able to fetch a 2nd and a 3rd, the deal would already be done, imho.

 

[theimmortal1]

Hahahaha not even remotely close.

If you want Killorn then you need to send Tampa a 1st

If you want Johnson we will also send you a 4th or 5th.

if you want Palat then you need to send Tampa a 1st.

So this deal should be:

Tampa: Killorn, Johnson
Seattle: Sends 2nd round pick


But the reality is the Bolts don't need to trade 2 forwards anymore. We just need to trade 1.


This is also why Francis had one of the biggest fails in the history of being a GM. He had a chance to get assets and weaponize cap space. He has totally choked at this point and it is too late. Arizona beat him to the punch and the teams that need to shed aren't in that bad of a place + there are a handful of teams that can compete to weaponize cap space.

 

[theimmortal1]

Hum, if Johnson would've been able to fetch a 2nd and a 3rd, the deal would already be done, imho.

For sure. The point isn't that Johnson is worth what Arvidsson is. But rather the gap between Arvidsson and Johnson isn't: get a 2nd and 3rd vs send a high pick. They are relatively close. If Arvidsson is worth a 2nd and a 3rd then Johnson is probably worth a 4th or 5th.

It is laughable teams think the Bolts have to attach a high round pick to get rid of Johnson when most likely they will get an asset this year (forget last year, that was different). Worst case the Bolts want to move on or do Johnson a solid (the Bolts do have the best rep in the league for a reason) and send him to Seattle and attach a mid round pick. But it won't be a 1st, 2nd, and almost certainly not a 3rd.

 

[MisterT]

Hahahaha not even remotely close.

If you want Killorn then you need to send Tampa a 1st

If you want Johnson we will also send you a 4th or 5th.

if you want Palat then you need to send Tampa a 1st.

So this deal should be:

Tampa: Killorn, Johnson
Seattle: Sends 2nd round pick


But the reality is the Bolts don't need to trade 2 forwards anymore. We just need to trade 1.


This is also why Francis had one of the biggest fails in the history of being a GM. He had a chance to get assets and weaponize cap space. He has totally choked at this point and it is too late. Arizona beat him to the punch and the teams that need to shed aren't in that bad of a place + there are a handful of teams that can compete to weaponize cap space.

Your “reality” seems to selectively ignore than Johnson and a 2nd was offered league wide with no takers last off-season then waived this season, again with no takers.

The fact is nobody wants him unless something of significance is attached to him and a that’s not a CB mid-to-late round pick.

 

[McJedi]

You can get two rosters players or a player and a first, but not both.

Killorn and a 1st sounds like a really great deal for Seattle.

Tyler Johnson and a first is a terrible deal for Seattle.

 

[theimmortal1]

Your “reality” seems to selectively ignore than Johnson and a 2nd was offered league wide with no takers last off-season then waived this season, again with no takers.

The fact is nobody wants him unless something of significance is attached to him and a that’s not a CB mid-to-late round pick.

Last year is not this year.

And if the Bolts and the rest of the league have such a different opinion then we will just keep Johnson. We don't have to trade him.

We will trade Palat or Killorn and get a 1st round pick back.

Maybe Seattle will do a 2nd and a 5th for Palat.

 

[samsagat]

For sure. The point isn't that Johnson is worth what Arvidsson is. But rather the gap between Arvidsson and Johnson isn't: get a 2nd and 3rd vs send a high pick. They are relatively close. If Arvidsson is worth a 2nd and a 3rd then Johnson is probably worth a 4th or 5th.

It is laughable teams think the Bolts have to attach a high round pick to get rid of Johnson when most likely they will get an asset this year (forget last year, that was different). Worst case the Bolts want to move on or do Johnson a solid (the Bolts do have the best rep in the league for a reason) and send him to Seattle and attach a mid round pick. But it won't be a 1st, 2nd, and almost certainly not a 3rd.

Yeaah!!

Imho, if JB would've been able to receive something for Johnson, even a late pick, it would already be done.
Even paying a late pick.

If Johnson isn't traded yet, it's because it's not that easy.

But you're right to the substance. I think that JB will trade Palat (or Killorn) and receive something good way before paying to get rid of Johnson.
It would be enough to make it under the cap if TB receive no NHL contrat in return.

TB has lost Gourde to Seattle as a center, they'll keep Johnson as their 3rd/4rth center or even on the wing of their top-6. No big deal for them, even at 5 mil.

 

[theimmortal1]

Yeaah!!

Imho, if JB would've been able to receive something for Johnson, even a late pick, it would already be done.
Even paying a late pick.

If Johnson isn't traded yet, it's because it's not that easy.

But you're right to the substance. I think that JB will trade Palat (or Killorn) and receive something good way before paying to get rid of Johnson.
It would be enough to make it under the cap if TB receive no NHL contrat in return.

TB has lost Gourde to Seattle as a center, they'll keep Johnson as their 3rd/4rth center or even on the wing of their top-6. No big deal for them, even at 5 mil.

Yep. From a value perspective Johnson is incredibly underrated. He is a pretty solid player. He is slightly overpaid but people think it is the worst contract in history.

So from a pure asset management perspective flipping Palat and getting a 1st or 2nd is a smarter move. The gap between Palat and Johnson is not a couple high round picks (what we'd get for Palat and what people want for Johnson).

However Palat > Johnson. So if we really want to 3 peat we may just overpay to get rid of Johnson to maximize our chance at a 3 peat.

 

[BStinson]

For sure. The point isn't that Johnson is worth what Arvidsson is. But rather the gap between Arvidsson and Johnson isn't: get a 2nd and 3rd vs send a high pick. They are relatively close. If Arvidsson is worth a 2nd and a 3rd then Johnson is probably worth a 4th or 5th.

It is laughable teams think the Bolts have to attach a high round pick to get rid of Johnson when most likely they will get an asset this year (forget last year, that was different). Worst case the Bolts want to move on or do Johnson a solid (the Bolts do have the best rep in the league for a reason) and send him to Seattle and attach a mid round pick. But it won't be a 1st, 2nd, and almost certainly not a 3rd.

If teams were willing to pay for him he’d be long gone by now.

 

[theimmortal1]

If teams were willing to pay for him he’d be long gone by now.

Why? The offseason just started.

 

[samsagat]

Yep. From a value perspective Johnson is incredibly underrated. He is a pretty solid player. He is slightly overpaid but people think it is the worst contract in history.

So from a pure asset management perspective flipping Palat and getting a 1st or 2nd is a smarter move. The gap between Palat and Johnson is not a couple high round picks (what we'd get for Palat and what people want for Johnson).

However Palat > Johnson. So if we really want to 3 peat we may just overpay to get rid of Johnson to maximize our chance at a 3 peat.

Not sure that this would be a difference maker, it's a pretty solid team you have there.

Last year you guys won the Stanley cup without Stamkos.

Some young guys like Cirelli, Joseph, Barre-Boulet, Ross could step up and pick up the loose left by veterans who went elsewhere. The core is still intact.

We'll see. It would be an event that didn't occur since the '80s (3 cups in a row)

 

[thadd]

Killorn is not a cap dump. He's on a great contract for what he's done for Tampa every year.
Tyler Johnson's contract doesn't look good only because Tampa's depth has been so insane. He's a serviceable top 6 forward.
That being said, cap space isn't cheap under a flat cap, so first rounder makes sense.