Johnny Gaudreau Versus Phil Kessel

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Gaudreau the past 4 seasons:
40
48
43
60

Kessel the past 4 seasons:
36
33
47
58

Except for the second year, their assist totals are pretty close. And that's with Kessel playing a big portion of his time in Pittsburgh with either Bonino or Sheahan at ES.

If you want to say Gaudreau's better, go for it. But to say "not even close" is silly. Kessel is a very good playmaking winger.

Now as for goal scoring, that's "not even close" in Kessel's favor.

Did you even look at their goal totals over last few seasons? The delta is essentially the same as their assist difference.

Kessel has the ridiculous benefit of playing with Malkin and Crosby. Gaudreau would be a 100 point player in Pittsburgh.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Did you even look at their goal totals over last few seasons? The delta is essentially the same as their assist difference.

Kessel's had multiple 30+ goal seasons (including 34 this past year). Gaudreau's had one 30 goal season in his career. I don't know how you can argue that Kessel doesn't have a clear edge as a goal scorer.

Kessel has the ridiculous benefit of playing with Malkin and Crosby. Gaudreau would be a 100 point player in Pittsburgh.

Kessel benefits from those two on the PP. At ES, Sullivan likes to try and run three scoring lines, with each on a different line. Gaudreau, at 5 on 5, I'd argue has more help with a consistent 30 goal Monahan on his line, than Kessel does with guys like Bonino and Sheahan.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Kessel's had multiple 30+ goal seasons (including 34 this past year). Gaudreau's had one 30 goal season in his career. I don't know how you can argue that Kessel doesn't have a clear edge as a goal scorer.



Kessel benefits from those two on the PP. At ES, Sullivan likes to try and run three scoring lines, with each on a different line. Gaudreau, at 5 on 5, I'd argue has more help with a consistent 30 goal Monahan on his line, than Kessel does with guys like Bonino and Sheahan.

Since Gaudreau entered the league (last 4 seasons):

Gaudreau 76 ES goals in 312 games
Kessel 76 ES goals in 328 games

That's how I argue that Kessel doesn't have the clear edge in goal scoring.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Since Gaudreau entered the league (last 4 seasons):

Gaudreau 76 ES goals in 312 games
Kessel 76 ES goals in 328 games

That's how I argue that Kessel doesn't have the clear edge in goal scoring.

I like how scoring on the PP no longer is considered part of being a good goal scorer.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think this is Gaudreau but it’s close. What hurts Kessel just a bit IMO is that he gets to play with Malkin and also gets to play on that PP. Obviously Phil is a star player in his own right but if I’m taking one guy for next season it’s JG.

 

[HugginThePost]

I like how scoring on the PP no longer is considered part of being a good goal scorer.

That's a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

I'd wager if Johnny had a PP unit like Phil does, he'd be putting up gaudy numbers.

Johnny drives the entire Flames offence.

I'm sure if we looked at the % of points Johnny contributes to the Flames offence 5 on 5 , they would look a lot better than Phil's.

They are both great players. But when Phil was put in a position to be "the" guy, it didn't turn out so well. He is a great player when not relied upon to be the main point producer. Johnny on the other hand seems to be thriving. I won't even bother with the age difference and the potential he may have in the upcoming season. If the top line finds chemistry he may surprise everyone.

 

[Chef de Cuisine]

Gaudreau by a hefty margin for me

 

[Chef de Cuisine]

That's a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

I'd wager if Johnny had a PP unit like Phil does, he'd be putting up gaudy numbers.

Johnny drives the entire Flames offence.

I'm sure if we looked at the % of points Johnny contributes to the Flames offence 5 on 5 , they would look a lot better than Phil's.

They are both great players. But when Phil was put in a position to be "the" guy, it didn't turn out so well. He is a great player when not relied upon to be the main point producer. Johnny on the other hand seems to be thriving. I won't even bother with the age difference and the potential he may have in the upcoming season. If the top line finds chemistry he may surprise everyone.

This.. McDavid and Gaudreau were 1 and 2 in contributing to team scoring last time I saw on TV.

 

[GlitchMarner]

They are both great players. But when Phil was put in a position to be "the" guy, it didn't turn out so well. He is a great player when not relied upon to be the main point producer. Johnny on the other hand seems to be thriving.

I'm not really sure what you mean here. When Kessel was the main offensive weapon on a team, he was a top scorer in his best seasons.

Yeah, his team didn't have much success, but you can't blame him for that. If you're basing what you wrote on team success, the Flames have only made the playoffs half the time since Johnny's rookie season.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I like how scoring on the PP no longer is considered part of being a good goal scorer.

Sure, maybe just give Gaudreau the same PP support that Kessel has enjoyed and then we can compare.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I'm not really sure what you mean here. When Kessel was the main offensive weapon on a team, he was a top scorer in his best seasons.

Yeah, his team didn't have much success, but you can't blame him for that. If you're basing what you wrote on team success, the Flames have only made the playoffs half the time since Johnny's rookie season.

So the Flames made the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years, after missing the playoffs for 5 consecutive seasons prior to him joining the team?

Leafs made the playoffs once in Kessel's 6 years in Toronto . . . and never got past the first round . . .

 

[Critical13]

Gaudreau drives play. Kessel finishes plays.

I know Kessel's passing was always underrated in Toronto, but one thing that wasn't underrated was the fact that he rarely was able to put a line on his back. Gaudreau has no problem doing that.

 

[Spirit of 67]

As of today, Phil.

Given their ages, it could be J Hockey as soon as this season

 

[ColbyChaos]

Take Kessel and put him on the Flames pp and put him on the top line where he would get team's best shutdown guys instead of getting easier matchups due to being on the 2nd/3rd line his pt totals would drop. For all the talk of meh linemates for Kessel he more than makes up with it facing weaker competition with teams focusing on 87 and 71.

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

J.G, and it isn't super close for me.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Take Kessel and put him on the Flames pp and put him on the top line where he would get team's best shutdown guys instead of getting easier matchups due to being on the 2nd/3rd line his pt totals would drop. For all the talk of meh linemates for Kessel he more than makes up with it facing weaker competition with teams focusing on 87 and 71.

NHL.com - Stats

NHL.com - Stats

 

[GlitchMarner]

So the Flames made the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years, after missing the playoffs for 5 consecutive seasons prior to him joining the team?

Leafs made the playoffs once in Kessel's 6 years in Toronto . . . and never got past the first round . . .

Kessel was employed as a scorer and he did his job. The team around him wasn't built to contend or to be a consistent playoff team. Gaudreau is very good in his role just like Kessel was in his. You can't expect one player to carry a team into the playoffs on his own, especially on a regular basis.

 

[Freedom]

Gaudreau is very easily the better playmaker. Like, it's not even close.

Maybe but Kessel's playmaking is highly underrated. That's why he is able to lead a line and is even more dangerous in PP. Many fans talk about it like a weakness but he was many last seasons one of the best players on PP and that's not a luck.

 

[treple13]

If you were allowed to trade Kessel for Gaudreau simply for the season only, Penguins would accept without much thinking about it and Calgary would swear at you for quite a while for even proposing it.

Imagine Gaudreau feeding Crosby or Malkin. How many goals would they produce? Imagine Kessel on Calgary without Gaudreau. I'll imagine his numbers would plummet.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Maybe but Kessel's playmaking is highly underrated. That's why he is able to lead a line and is even more dangerous in PP. Many fans talk about it like a weakness but he was many last seasons one of the best players on PP and that's not a luck.

I'm a big Kessel fan. He is a very good playmaker, no doubt. Gaudreau has arguably the best vision in the league. He's 4th in EV assists since he entered the league and 6th in ES points.

Over the same period, Kessel is 55th is ES assists and 38th in ES points, despite playing 18 more games.

Does PP scoring matter? Of course. But you also have to consider the context. While in Toronto Kessel averaged about 20 PP points / season. Last year he had 42 playing in Pittsburgh. Don't you think that maybe playing with Crosby and Malkin helped a bit?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Kessel was employed as a scorer and he did his job. The team around him wasn't built to contend or to be a consistent playoff team. Gaudreau is very good in his role just like Kessel was in his. You can't expect one player to carry a team into the playoffs on his own, especially on a regular basis.

I don't disagree but just look at the impact Gaudreau had on the Flames offense. Look at 13-14 goals for and roster and compare to 14-15.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Take Kessel and put him on the Flames pp and put him on the top line where he would get team's best shutdown guys instead of getting easier matchups due to being on the 2nd/3rd line his pt totals would drop. For all the talk of meh linemates for Kessel he more than makes up with it facing weaker competition with teams focusing on 87 and 71.

NHL.com - Stats

NHL.com - Stats

Thank you for posting this. Dear lord, it's like some of these people became hockey fans a year ago. Kessel carried a line against top competition for over half a decade with the Leafs, all while being damn near a PPG player for multiple seasons.

To say that Kessel can't carry a line or needs to be sheltered to put up points is so asininely stupid that it doesn't deserve a serious response. It's just ignoring reality, I don't know what else to call it. It's basically saying that since Kessel has Crosby and Malkin on his team now, he can't produce against top competition despite doing that for numerous seasons.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Kessel only has two seasons where he has been ppg or above in Toronto/Boston he has been a 60 or so pt player for a majority of his time there. To say he doesnt benefit at all from teams focusing on Sid and Malkin over him is just being comically obtuse. Gaudreau faces teams top defensive guys Kessel does not at all.

 

[ColbyChaos]

NHL.com - Stats

NHL.com - Stats

A bit strange you coincidentally did only three years rather his entire time in Toronto...

NHL.com - Stats

Edit: Look I can cherry pick numbers too

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Felidae]

A bit strange you coincidentally did only three years rather his entire time in Toronto...

NHL.com - Stats

Edit: Look I can cherry pick numbers too

NHL.com - Stats

I think it was to demonstrate that Kessel has reached the heights he did this year before.

Kessel only has two seasons where he has been ppg or above in Toronto/Boston he has been a 60 or so pt player for a majority of his time there. To say he doesnt benefit at all from teams focusing on Sid and Malkin over him is just being comically obtuse. Gaudreau faces teams top defensive guys Kessel does not at all.

3, if you include the lockout season, which was in between his two top ten point finishes.

Anyways, not sure I see your point. Gaudreau has "only" had 1 top ten point finish, the same amount Kessel had when he was Gaudreau's age, and both in the 6th-7th range.