John Tavares Discussion

[Racer88]

Yeah, you'd like to see the superstars perform like superstars.

Two 1st. line All Stars should be outperforming everyone on the team with actual results.

Yup……

 

[zeke]

Can't believe people are still defending that embarassing call by the refs, when they let far worse interference go on the Bolts' series-winning goal.

 

[arso40]

I hope his footspeed doesn't fall off - there were stretches last season where he looked so slow and anonymous.

I really hope his defensive game is better too, if he has Nylander stapled to his line once again. The pair of them were net negatives at 5on5.

TRADE HIM and muzzin time to revamp this roster the young guys will get better time to cut ties with them while they are getting worst move willie to the middle with responsible two way wingers and build an actual roster under them

 

[notDatsyuk]

You point out the issue though.

Refs calling what they want to call.

I think you missed my point.

Yes, refs use their discretion about calling penalties that happen well away from the puck, and probably won't affect play. I would prefer they call them, and firmly believe that if they do, players will quickly figure it out, and the overall number of penalties per game will remain constant.

But if you blatantly interfere with a player who is within a couple of feet of the puck carrier, and it clearly creates an immediate scoring chance, it wlill be called.

 

[notDatsyuk]

No more impossible than the GWG hold or the GTG play on Marner in Game 5. Id also say there were a number of more egrious picks by McD in thay first period on dumps where he travelled further and more blatantly out of his way to intrfere with a forecheck.

The Holl picks an issue because of the result, not the actual pick. If Tavares misses the net nobody remembers it.

At the end of the day, the call is fine but it wasnt the standard they set or continued to follow

The biggest difference was that it was within a couple of feet of the puck carrier, and resulted in an immediate scoring chance.

 

[arso40]

The biggest difference was that it was within a couple of feet of the puck carrier, and resulted in an immediate scoring chance.

Not to say the refs weren’t being a little one sided in the series there were many calls that were ignored at crutial times that were in our favour that being said that was a blatant pic

 

[notDatsyuk]

What is that a quote from?

You know... it's just that when I watch the LEAFS players in the defensive zone, this "rule" that all of the other teams players have to "get out of the way" of our players doesn't ever seem to apply. I've never noticed other teams players diving out of the way of our players so as to not (lol) get interference penalties. What I see is an all out battle for space where everybody is beating the shit out of each other. Who knew... it's going to be an entire new game going forward when this new "get out of the way" rule starts getting implemented on literally any other player EVER other than Holl.

The quote, as I stated, is from 'Hockey 101'.

There is nothing in that quote, or in anything I said, about 'get out of the way'. The rule says you cannot deliberately get in the way, which is what Holl did.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yeah, you'd like to see the superstars perform like superstars.

Two 1st. line All Stars should be outperforming everyone on the team with actual results.

As far as individual results go, they did outperform everyone, in both the regular season and in the playoffs.

The team results were where the team failed to produce actual results.

 

[arso40]

As far as individual results go, they did outperform everyone, in both the regular season and in the playoffs.

The team results were where the team failed to produce actual results.

I mean points wise yes but they didn’t dominate the series like we expected them to they are arguably both top 20 players with matthews being top 5 and them together should be like cheating only it wasn’t part of that may be the fact that bunting wasnt even close to 80 percent but that being said they should have been far and away better than everyone else on the ice and though I still would say they were the best it wasn’t with the distance it should have been nor when the stakes were the highest

 

[Legion34]

I personally don't see Nylander/his agent as being likely any more difficult than Marner or Matthews will be at this point. And while we obviously have to wait and see - I'd expect his next deal to be well under 10 mil in terms of aav. I just don't necessarily see an extension as that big of an issue, especially with the cap now returning to growth.

Now if the team wants to rejig things, that's a different story. But if it gets to that point, I'd potentially look into moving on from more than just Nylander/JT....

With the incoming recession I don’t think the cap is going to jump up as quick as they thought. The tv deal helps but Indont see the blue states shelling out for hockey tickets when 11% hits.

 

[Gallagbi]

The biggest difference was that it was within a couple of feet of the puck carrier, and resulted in an immediate scoring chance.

Both instances i mentioned in game 5 and 7 were every bit as in the play and resulted in immediate chances (and goals)

Its fine to call the Holl penalty, but it wasnt the standard they set or followed. But ill leave it at that, since I dont think we'll agree on it

 

[ULF_55]

I think you missed my point.

Yes, refs use their discretion about calling penalties that happen well away from the puck, and probably won't affect play. I would prefer they call them, and firmly believe that if they do, players will quickly figure it out, and the overall number of penalties per game will remain constant.

But if you blatantly interfere with a player who is within a couple of feet of the puck carrier, and it clearly creates an immediate scoring chance, it wlill be called.

No I know what you were trying to emphasize.

However what you said was the refs decide which penalties to call.

They use their discretion ... butterfly effect.

That creates an imbalance, it puts the offended team at a disadvantage.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I mean points wise yes but they didn’t dominate the series like we expected them to they are arguably both top 20 players with matthews being top 5 and them together should be like cheating only it wasn’t part of that may be the fact that bunting wasnt even close to 80 percent but that being said they should have been far and away better than everyone else on the ice and though I still would say they were the best it wasn’t with the distance it should have been nor when the stakes were the highest

As you said, part of their problem was Bunting. Similarly, the rest of the team wasn't up to the task. Our top four (including Nylander and Rielly) outperformed their top players, but the rest didn't.

 

[notDatsyuk]

No I know what you were trying to emphasize.

However what you said was the refs decide which penalties to call.

They use their discretion ... butterfly effect.

That creates an imbalance, it puts the offended team at a disadvantage.

Not quite.

Sometimes it is possible, and even preferable, to use your discretion in calling a penalty.

Sometimes you have no choice.

 

[arso40]

As you said, part of their problem was Bunting. Similarly, the rest of the team wasn't up to the task. Our top four (including Nylander and Rielly) outperformed their top players, but the rest didn't.

Succs you forgot to mention mr 11 million dollars I can’t believe they aren’t trying to get rid of this guy what a contract

 

[notDatsyuk]

Succs you forgot to mention mr 11 million dollars I can’t believe they aren’t trying to get rid of this guy what a contract

The contract says they can't get rid of him unless he wants to go. He doesn't want to go.

Basically nothing they can do except wait for the contract to expire, and hope they don't lose any of the big three (Rielly is locked in) in the interim.

 

[arso40]

The contract says they can't get rid of him unless he wants to go. He doesn't want to go.

Basically nothing they can do except wait for the contract to expire, and hope they don't lose any of the big three (Rielly is locked in) in the interim.

I would force him out don’t play him scratch him until he agrees to leave

 

[notDatsyuk]

I would force him out don’t play him scratch him until he agrees to leave

That's been discussed. One big problem is that it sends a terrible message to other free agents (or maybe sends the message "we're serious about winning").

Also, he's still a decent player, probably in the $6-7M range, and just sitting him seems like a waste, especially as there is no guarantee the strategy will make him agree to leave. Even if he does, who'll take that contract without returning worse, especially if we sit him?

It would be another thing if we could LTIR him and use the cap space.

Dropping him to 3C might help the team overall, and possibly encourage him to ask for a trade, but probably not.

 

[arso40]

That's been discussed. One big problem is that it sends a terrible message to other free agents (or maybe sends the message "we're serious about winning").

Also, he's still a decent player, probably in the $6-7M range, and just sitting him seems like a waste, especially as there is no guarantee the strategy will make him agree to leave. Even if he does, who'll take that contract without returning worse, especially if we sit him?

It would be another thing if we could LTIR him and use the cap space.

Dropping him to 3C might help the team overall, and possibly encourage him to ask for a trade, but probably not.

Gotta try he’s better suited for like a vgk team even though the cap implication would be dire for them but they could make it work everybody loves Vegas right

 

[daethfromabove1979]

Scared to see how much worse Tavares gets next year. The next three years of watching him decline are going to be painful.

 

[ULF_55]

Videos - NHL, NBA, NFL, Super Bowl, CFL, MLB, Golf, Tennis, Soccer

TSN's latest highlights and features from around the sporting world. NHL, NBA, NFL, CFL, MLB, PGA, LPGA, MLS, EPL, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, La Liga, Serie A, FIFA World Cup, Euro, ATP Tennis, WTA Tennis, Curling, Scotties, Brier, World Juniors.

www.tsn.ca

 

[notDatsyuk]

Gotta try he’s better suited for like a vgk team even though the cap implication would be dire for them but they could make it work everybody loves Vegas right

I agree there are likely several teams he would be a better fit for, but: how do they afford him, what would we get back, and most critically, how do we get him to waive?

 

[MarioLeMoose]

Can't believe people are still defending that embarassing call by the refs, when they let far worse interference go on the Bolts' series-winning goal.

Theres always next year, mate

 

[zeke]

Theres always next year, mate

can you believe they called that shit? unreal.

 

[Tak7]

TRADE HIM and muzzin time to revamp this roster the young guys will get better time to cut ties with them while they are getting worst move willie to the middle with responsible two way wingers and build an actual roster under them

So much of the remaining money left on the Tavares deal is tied in signing bonuses, which means it's going to be next to impossible to trade him. Now combine that he's an aging, declining asset with a full No-Move Clause, it's just not reasonable to expect him to be traded, although I'd be open to it depending on the return.

Muzzin is a tough one for me - he too is aging and slowing down, but he was decent in the playoffs, and we just don't have a lot of the physical presence he brings. The only way I'd consider moving him, is if we had something else lined up on the blueline as his direct replacement. Him & Boosh off this blueline makes it look buttery soft. We finally seemed to turn the page away from that sort of thing last season; I would hate to go back to it.

Can't believe people are still defending that embarassing call by the refs, when they let far worse interference go on the Bolts' series-winning goal.

I get angry at the call every now & again, until I'm reminded that the refs f***ed up far worse in the cup final - including on an overtime game winning goal.

It could have been worse. The team still had plenty of time to sort it out after the call. Excuses.