John Scott says 1st round picks weren't willing to change game with St. John's

[Mrb1p]

I like that. They changed what they expected for McCarron on a yearly basis. I'm sure they originally looked at him to be that big bost that could be a menace in front of the net on the pp and slam home the greasy goals 5 on 5 with skilled players. Good enough to hang with them, not good enough to elevate anyone. Then a 4th line center like Boyle, then just a goon.



It's really not that easy. You have to either have it come natural to give the proverbial 110%, or you have to have the mindset to realize your dream is slipping away and change that.

If it were that easy, everyone who wanted to learn another language would know it by now. Everyone who wanted to get in shape, would be. If you think being able to go out there and give it your all is easy, you're wrong. Hell, some of these players who so desperately want to win a cup can't even do it for the late teens - early 20 amount of games it takes to win it.

Nice, everyone is not a pro hockey player.

 

[Kimota]

Could Carbonneau really not do it? The few times I've heard him talk about his scoring, he mentioned that the Habs wanted him to focus on his defensive game more and so he adapted his game to what they asked him to do.

In my opinion, if he could score, they would not have asked him to change his game. Maybe it is something that should be asked from him in an interview so he could go more into details. But if you improve your defensive game and you have the scoring touch, I cannot see how your scoring game could be affected if the talent to score at this level was really there. Same thing happened with Claude Lemieux who was a top scorer in junior but he had become more of a pest later on in the NHL.

 

[Kimota]

He was so dominating in the AHL as a player, but sure did realize this is the way it was, and he did it for the team. Hall of fame career sure made it look like he made the right decision. Total team player.
That being said, I met him once, and boy he seemed like a real arrogant POS.....oh well.

I know that Carbo is a pretty shy guy who has trouble communicating, sometime it comes off as arrogance. I had a friend at school who thought I was acting "better than him" when I would walk pass him cause I didn't look at him in the school corridors. And he was pissed. But I didn't look at anybody. lol I was too shy back then.

 

[Kimota]

I agree Tinordi should have been converted to FW he a great skater for is size when the play is up and down he look great. the issue is that in the NHL the game is a lot more structured and for him it a lot more positioning and stop and go not having a great first step make it hard to maintain proper position and make better use of is size.
Same with Beaulieu but he had a incredibly explosive first few step going fw, good size and play with a edge but he can barely skate backward or pivot, along with avg. hockey sense which made it very hard for him defensively.

Both had asset or skills that should make them NHL player but there position minimized those strength or exposed their weakness even more. Playing FW in a bottom 6 role would have utilized their strength and minimized there weakness.

Exactly. I am glad you saw this too. Two guys that had skills but just couldn't play defensively. I thought it was a waste not to use someone like Tinordi that had this physique, this strenght and a good skater to boot in any other way.

 

[mariolemieux66]

In my opinion, if he could score, they would not have asked him to change his game. Maybe it is something that should be asked from him in an interview so he could go more into details. But if you improve your defensive game and you have the scoring touch, I cannot see how your scoring game could be affected if the talent to score at this level was really there. Same thing happened with Claude Lemieux who was a top scorer in junior but he had become more of a pest later on in the NHL.

Lemieux played over 1200 games in the NHL, a Conn Smythe and 4 Stanley Cups.
It's a different era. Nowdays, young players have hot girlfriends at 21, millions of dollars by the time you are 23, big cars, nice watches and busy social media life. Galchenyuk and Beaulieu had some of the same problems. We could even add Tinordi to the group of 1st rounders that were busts, who add family members negatively affecting the player's development.

 

[BLONG7]

Lemieux played over 1200 games in the NHL, a Conn Smythe and 4 Stanley Cups.
It's a different era. Nowdays, young players have hot girlfriends at 21, millions of dollars by the time you are 23, big cars, nice watches and busy social media life. Galchenyuk and Beaulieu had some of the same problems. We could even add Tinordi to the group of 1st rounders that were busts, who add family members negatively affecting the player's development.

The kids get too much too quick these days....not all of them, but most.

 

[DAChampion]

Nowdays, young players have hot girlfriends at 21,

Do you think that the player's used to be virgins until age 22?

 

[LaP]

I guess this could also go to the ex habs thread.

Bissonnette and Scott have a talk about how things have changed and some skilled players dont want to change. At the end of the clip, he makes reference to "1st rounders" with immense talent on St. John's who weren't going to "lower" themselves because they were going to be first line, pp minute type players.

Seems like he's talking about Nikita Scherbak.

To be fair to Scherbak he never had the tools to be a good bottom 6 guys. A good coach would have worked on his top 6 games and would not have asked him to change his game cause he simply did not have the tools to be an effective depth player.

 

[calder candidate]

We definitely had a big issue, I’m not sure that it is fix yet but It tell you something about our development and environment when most of the player seem to not want to buy in to what we are trying to teach they either they didn’t respect or they didn’t trust process / environment which lead them to give more importance to conflicting information from family, girlfriend, entourage or even their own...

 

[mariolemieux66]

Do you think that the player's used to be virgins until age 22?

I did!

 

[mariolemieux66]

To be fair to Scherbak he never had the tools to be a good bottom 6 guys. A good coach would have worked on his top 6 games and would not have asked him to change his game cause he simply did not have the tools to be an effective depth player.

Scherbak didn't seem consistent enough and wasn't dedicated as much as he should have.
Young 1st round Russian coming to Montreal didn't help either. Same with Galchenyuk. Montreal is an awesome city to play for, but it as its flaws as well.
I would have love to see what Galchenyuk had become if he was drafted by Pittsburgh. You have Malkin taking him and leading the way would have most likely be good for his career.

 

[Kimota]

Lemieux played over 1200 games in the NHL, a Conn Smythe and 4 Stanley Cups.
It's a different era. Nowdays, young players have hot girlfriends at 21, millions of dollars by the time you are 23, big cars, nice watches and busy social media life. Galchenyuk and Beaulieu had some of the same problems. We could even add Tinordi to the group of 1st rounders that were busts, who add family members negatively affecting the player's development.

Concerning Lemieux I was talking more about the fact that younger he did not need to do all the pest things. He was more pure goals scorer. He said when he got to the NHL to succeed he had to think differently and he took Dale Hunter as model. Hence the number 32. He said he was watching Hunter to be like him, devising plans to piss people off, etc...

 

[calder candidate]

Concerning Lemieux I was talking more about the fact that younger he did not need to do all the pest things. He was more pure goals scorer. He said when he got to the NHL to succeed he had to think differently and he took Dale Hunter as model. Hence the number 32. He said he was watching Hunter to be like him, devising plans to piss people off, etc...

Lemieux was a good NHL player even without being a pest, it not like he had to do it to stay in the league... Having that dimension just made him a better player. In
Sherbak cases is offense was over shadowed by his weakness defensively and total disinterested without the puck, he didn’t have to learn to fight or be a pest he just had to move is feet and work on or off the ice.
I actually think that the timing with Galchenyuk and all injury (AHL team in St-John’s probably didn’t help anyone either) kind stack the odds against him but still has a organisation you have to help him out or manage your asset... the amount or guy we lost to waiver or trade for nothing once we had dragged them through the mud is unacceptable

 

[Vachon23]

They should have realized earlier that Sherback wouldn’t play in the NHL and trade him for help when we where a good team and he still had value. It was obvious that he had way to much flaws and that he didn’t had the character to be better.

McCarron just wasn’t good..

Tinordi I never understood why he didn’t make it. He had all the tools to be at least a 3rd pair defenseman. It was just timing that wasn’t always good but that could have been work with time

 

[BigM2]

I thought Tinordi played pretty well for the Preds this year...spent a good bit of time on the 2nd pair.

 

[Kimota]

They should have realized earlier that Sherback wouldn’t play in the NHL and trade him for help when we where a good team and he still had value. It was obvious that he had way to much flaws and that he didn’t had the character to be better.

McCarron just wasn’t good..

Tinordi I never understood why he didn’t make it. He had all the tools to be at least a 3rd pair defenseman. It was just timing that wasn’t always good but that could have been work with time

Yea he looked like he had all the tools, goes to show you that being a D in today's game is pretty damn hard. Cause the game is pretty quick. Still, he had a lot of tools and like I said they should have tried him as a forward.

 

[cphabs]

You should draft the player for the game they play and figure out how to use their talents in your system.

Theres one thing to work on a players flaws and help them do the things they need to do to not be a liability but I've seen too much evidence of the Habs development over the last two decades that they take players and try to make them into something they are not.

Yep.