Line Combos: John Michael Liles an option ?

[htpwn]

It makes zero sense.

He cannot be any worse than what we already have.

We're already paying, and to make the cap work next year we need to dump his contract somehow. The only way that is happening is either we add to him in a deal or the easier solution, let him play and hope he does half-decent.

 

[gabeliscious]

He is NOT better than Ranger defensively!

he is a better skater and passer though. i actually think the 2 of them would make a decent pairing. we could do a lot worse then these two on our bottom pairing.

the problem is we need a combination of reilly, gardiner, franson, and fraser to be better. with the exception of reilly who i give a pass only because he is ~15 games into a career, we have seen a better quality of hockey out of gardiner, franson, and fraser. the way they have been playing the past ~10 games if not more has been a pretty sorry excuse. if fraser doesnt do better he could find hi mself out of the league next season. i suspect with grardiner its a confidence issue and with franson other then the shot on the pp i dont think he has an especially high hockey iq. we have phanuef, reilly, and gardiner who can be offensive, we need players who can be SOLID defensively to cover for them. if our defensive defensive cant play defense then need to gtfo.

 

[thewave]

he is a better skater and passer though. i actually think the 2 of them would make a decent pairing. we could do a lot worse then these two on our bottom pairing.

the problem is we need a combination of reilly, gardiner, franson, and fraser to be better. with the exception of reilly who i give a pass only because he is ~15 games into a career, we have seen a better quality of hockey out of gardiner, franson, and fraser. the way they have been playing the past ~10 games if not more has been a pretty sorry excuse. if fraser doesnt do better he could find hi mself out of the league next season. i suspect with grardiner its a confidence issue and with franson other then the shot on the pp i dont think he has an especially high hockey iq. we have phanuef, reilly, and gardiner who can be offensive, we need players who can be SOLID defensively to cover for them. if our defensive defensive cant play defense then need to gtfo.

He is an excellent complimentary player for someone like Ranger

 

[Cor]

Phaneuf - Gunner
Gardiner - Franson
Liles - Rielly

Go with that

 

[thewave]

Phaneuf - Gunner
Gardiner - Franson
Liles - Rielly

Go with that

Yes because 4 offensive minded D in the bottom screams success

You just literally guaranteed loses against teams running power forwards across the board and playoff defeat in 5 or less against Boston etc

 

[Mess]

It makes zero sense.

He cannot be any worse than what we already have.

We're already paying, and to make the cap work next year we need to dump his contract somehow. The only way that is happening is either we add to him in a deal or the easier solution, let him play and hope he does half-decent.

Well in order to move Liles to the AHL the Leafs were required to put him on NHL waivers.

Liles cleared waivers which means 29 other NHL teams including the Leafs don't want JML on their NHL teams even if they could have acquired him for free.

That speaks volumes to both the contract and the player in question here.

So are 30 NHL GM's wrong and\or what makes Leaf fans believe his is a solution for Leafs defense for improvement?

Since the Leafs are saving $920k by demoting LiLes then why no use that cap savings on trying out Percy or Granberg for that cap hit savings portion?

 

[Cor]

Yes because 4 offensive minded D in the bottom screams success

With what we have, that is the best we can do. Clearly Ranger and Fraser aren't helping us.

Also, it's not an auto defeat . Liles, Rielly, and Gardiner are all solid defensively as well.

 

[thewave]

With what we have, that is the best we can do. Clearly Ranger and Fraser aren't helping us.

I would try don't laugh,

Dion Ranger
Gunner Franson
Gardiner Rielly

The bottom two for use in striking situations, offensive zone starts.

My attempt is to balance the D, Dion is a productive horse Ranger works hard. Gunner is second best and balances out Franson while Jake and the Kid you hope feed off each other

 

[thewave]

Alternatively to the post above you could just drop hammer and go...

Dion Rielly
Gunner Franson
Ranger Gardiner

Perhaps this is more balanced

 

[Cor]

Alternatively to the post above you could just drop hammer and go...

Dion Rielly
Gunner Franson
Ranger Gardiner

Perhaps this is more balanced

Not sure of a Gunner-Franson pairing. To me Gunner would be exposed without Phaneuf.

I would be open to trying this though, can't be worse then what we have. I would slot in Liles for Ranger though. Ranger isn't better then Liles defensively really. Would get some new blood into the lineup as well

 

[StuckOutHere]

Alternatively to the post above you could just drop hammer and go...

Dion Rielly
Gunner Franson
Ranger Gardiner

Perhaps this is more balanced

I'd switch Gardiner and Rielly to their preferred side, but yeah.

 

[gabeliscious]

Alternatively to the post above you could just drop hammer and go...

Dion Rielly
Gunner Franson
Ranger Gardiner

Perhaps this is more balanced

I'd switch Gardiner and Rielly to their preferred side, but yeah.

i agree about it being balanced but im not sure if rielly can handle top minutes yet nor am i sure if he can play on the right side.

i would also be curious to see what would happen if we tried ranger with phaneuf. he is an older player. he might rise to the occasion if given the opportunity.

phaneuf-ranger
gardiner-gunnarson
rielly-franson

pp1 = phaneuf-gardiner
pp2 = rielly-franson
pk1 = phaneuf-ranger
pk2 = gardiner-gunnarson

would allow carlyle to use phaneuf-ranger against other teams top lines and use gardiner-gunnarson in all situations. it would also allow carlyle to shelter rielly-franson which probably would benefit both of them.

 

[4evaBlue]

ive had enough of franson and fraser for a few games.

There is no way either of those guys are removed from the roster ATM:

Fraser - 3.6 hits/game
Franson - 3.24 hits/game
Phaneuf - 2.6 hits/game
Ranger - 2.17 hits/game
Gunnarsson - 1.96 hits/game
Rielly - 1.65 hits/game
Gardiner - 1.21 hits/game

Gardiner, Rielly or Ranger sitting out for Liles, I can see happening if they can fit him under the cap.

Compared to last season:

Fraser - 3.4 hits/game
Holzer - 2.77 hits/game
Franson - 2.76 hits/game
Phaneuf - 2.73 hits/game
Gunnarsson - 2.11 hits/game
Liles - 1.41 hits/game
Kostka - 1.4 hits/game
Gardiner - 1.08 hits/game

 

[Mowerman]

Well in order to move Liles to the AHL the Leafs were required to put him on NHL waivers.

Liles cleared waivers which means 29 other NHL teams including the Leafs don't want JML on their NHL teams even if they could have acquired him for free.

That speaks volumes to both the contract and the player in question here.

So are 30 NHL GM's wrong and\or what makes Leaf fans believe his is a solution for Leafs defense for improvement?

Since the Leafs are saving $920k by demoting LiLes then why no use that cap savings on trying out Percy or Granberg for that cap hit savings portion?

Carolina would trade for Liles. The contract is the issue given the state of the cap, not the player. Is Luongo a bad goalie because no team wanted to trade a decent package for him due to his contract? Liles is a better player than both Percy & Granberg. The aim is to improve the team here.

 

[Rayzorexe]

#FreeJML?

In any case, I'm all for a change to our defense core.

 

[rdawg1234]

Garbage idea IMO.

a small offensive d-man is gonna help with our defensive problems?

we've seen liles play, he's OKAY defensively, but not gonna improve us at all.

we need a top 4 Defensive d-man(girardi), not an offensive guy right now.

I'd rather try out tim gleason with that trade.

 

[4evaBlue]

Garbage idea IMO.

a small offensive d-man is gonna help with our defensive problems?

we've seen liles play, he's OKAY defensively, but not gonna improve us at all.

we need a top 4 Defensive d-man(girardi), not an offensive guy right now.

I'd rather try out tim gleason with that trade.

At this stage, swapping Gardiner and Liles would be a significant upgrade defensively, as Gardiner has had way too many brainfarts with the puck of late. Liles is an offensive defensemen, but he's not a riverboat gambler. Unfortunately, there's no way Gardiner goes through the waivers without being claimed.

 

[The Iceman]

I read somewhere the Leafs are LAST in the NHL with goals from their D.
It would do no harm to give Liles a shot in the top 6.
On a side note I don't like the way things ended but getting a point on the road in Pitt should be considered a good thing.
Everyone is in mourning because of the way it played out. 1 point in Pitt is a GOOD point!

 

[Kingstonian84*]

The decision isn't solely on the Coach.

Your right and wrong at the same time- Nonis gets to call people up and send them down BUT Carlyle decides who gets inserted into the lineup. Nonis can call Liles up all he wants but doesn't mean Randy has insert him in the lineup, not that I'm defending that old goat but it is what it is.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Everyone is in mourning because of the way it played out. 1 point in Pitt is a GOOD point![/QUOTE]

Your clearly not getting it, its not that the Leafs lost, its how they lost! The team quit about 5 minutes into the 2nd once they got a 4-1 lead, they stopped skating and trying, hell they went shotless from the 5 seconds to go mark in the 2nd right til the end of OT, that is why people are so disgusted with this sore lot of losers.

 

[gabeliscious]

There is no way either of those guys are removed from the roster ATM:

Fraser - 3.6 hits/game
Franson - 3.24 hits/game
Phaneuf - 2.6 hits/game
Ranger - 2.17 hits/game
Gunnarsson - 1.96 hits/game
Rielly - 1.65 hits/game
Gardiner - 1.21 hits/game

Gardiner, Rielly or Ranger sitting out for Liles, I can see happening if they can fit him under the cap.

Compared to last season:

Fraser - 3.4 hits/game
Holzer - 2.77 hits/game
Franson - 2.76 hits/game
Phaneuf - 2.73 hits/game
Gunnarsson - 2.11 hits/game
Liles - 1.41 hits/game
Kostka - 1.4 hits/game
Gardiner - 1.08 hits/game

hits are not the barometer of what makes a defenseman effective. thats like saying kessel is not a good winger because he doesnt have a lot of hits. the difference between frasers hits/game and gardiners is 2 hits. im not sure what they classify as a hit but i value gardiner being able to pass the puck, stick handle and skate with the puck over frasers 2 extra hits/ game. especially if those hits leave him out of position or are taken at a stupid time in a game.

 

[4evaBlue]

Your clearly not getting it, its not that the Leafs lost, its how they lost! The team quit about 5 minutes into the 2nd once they got a 4-1 lead, they stopped skating and trying, hell they went shotless from the 5 seconds to go mark in the 2nd right til the end of OT, that is why people are so disgusted with this sore lot of losers.

Last night's game was really reminiscent of collapse against the Bruins last season in more than one way. It seemed like once the refs let the game go out of hand, the Leafs were not able to respond appropriately. When the refs put their whistle away against the Bruins in the 3rd, the B's were taking all sorts of liberties and got away w/ it, while the Leafs didn't adapt. Same thing last night. Pens were getting away w/ murder in the 3rd period last night, while the Leafs looked like the softest team in the league.

Orr should have dropped Malkin Scott-style after the first time he shoved Bernier into the net. I don't even care so much about them going shottless, but they need to fn stand up for one another.

 

[htpwn]

Well in order to move Liles to the AHL the Leafs were required to put him on NHL waivers.

Liles cleared waivers which means 29 other NHL teams including the Leafs don't want JML on their NHL teams even if they could have acquired him for free.

That speaks volumes to both the contract and the player in question here.

So are 30 NHL GM's wrong and\or what makes Leaf fans believe his is a solution for Leafs defense for improvement?

Since the Leafs are saving $920k by demoting LiLes then why no use that cap savings on trying out Percy or Granberg for that cap hit savings portion?

Nobody's claiming Liles is a great option, merely an option.

It is not as if Fraser or Ranger are better at this point. Even if they would get claimed off waivers, it would be because of their salaries, and not necessarily because they are any better than Liles. Mark Fraser, need I remind everyone, is a career #7/AHL guy. He played well in stretches last year but struggled as the season went on and right into the playoffs.

We have something like $3 million of Liles' salary, on our cap today. We have the money to take that extra $900,000 cap hit with both Bolland and Lupul out with injury. Again, what do we have to lose?

If he comes up, plays well, then we've got a serviceable defenseman who we can hopefully move at the deadline or draft, freeing up cap space next year. If he stinks, then he gets send back down. Moving him anywhere while he's playing in the AHL is going to be tough, if not impossible.

 

[4evaBlue]

hits are not the barometer of what makes a defenseman effective. thats like saying kessel is not a good winger because he doesnt have a lot of hits. the difference between frasers hits/game and gardiners is 2 hits. im not sure what they classify as a hit but i value gardiner being able to pass the puck, stick handle and skate with the puck over frasers 2 extra hits/ game. especially if those hits leave him out of position or are taken at a stupid time in a game.

You're kidding, right? Fraser averages 14:26 per game while Gardiner averages over 20, yet Fraser outhits Gardiner to a ratio of 3:1. Carlyle wants the team to be tougher to play against, and he re-iterated that last night. There's no way swapping in Gardiner for Franson or Fraser will accomplish that. It really doesn't matter if you or me prefer more offense over tripling the amount of hits coming from a single player, we know Carlyle does not share the same point of view.

If we need more point producers from the back-end beside Franson, Phaneuf and Rielly, I'd still take Liles over Gardiner for the improved defense. It's not like Gardiner is tearing it up right about now, or anything.

Gardiner's biggest asset is his speed and his biggest weakness and what will hold him back the most is his hockey IQ.

 

[mikeo1]

Honestly, I dont know why he ever got sent down. Hes a bit expensive, but he was always respectable wit us and does a good job carrying the puck which we kind of suck at right now.