Blue Jays Discussion: Joe Panik traded for the reliever we need.

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BlueForever75

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Oct 4, 2017
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A lineup addition of that calibre pretty much forces a lineup shakeup because I don't think you can justify hitting him that low. He's in his 3rd straight season of better than 150 wRC+ and hasn't been below 130 since 2013.

1. Springer
2. Vlad
3. Cruz
4. Semien
5. Bo
6. Teoscar
7. Biggio
8. Gurriel
9. Jansen/McGuire

There are a ton of options there, but it would be ridiculous no matter how you stack it.

I dont know if Cruz should be the target. The DH spot is already covered with the extra OF and will do well for this lineup. If there was a gaping hole it is at 3B. I would rather try to upgrade that spot in our lineup.

I know he is a right handed hitter but my target would be Jonathan Schoop. He's another lethal bat, and although he has little time played at 3B he does have experience. He wouldnt be any worse then Biggio there.

1. Semien - 2B
2. Bichette - SS
3. Vladdy - 1B
4. Springer - CF
5. Hernandez - RF
6. Schoop - 3B
7. Gurriel - LF
8. Grichuk - DH
9. McGuire/Jansen - C

That is a lethal lineup.
 

Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
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A lineup addition of that calibre pretty much forces a lineup shakeup because I don't think you can justify hitting him that low. He's in his 3rd straight season of better than 150 wRC+ and hasn't been below 130 since 2013.

1. Springer
2. Vlad
3. Cruz
4. Semien
5. Bo
6. Teoscar
7. Biggio
8. Gurriel
9. Jansen/McGuire

There are a ton of options there, but it would be ridiculous no matter how you stack it.

Biggio is one season removed from having a OBP of .375 - only Vald has higher than .375 this year.
Gurriel is one season removed from hitting . 308

I'd like to see Gurriel sandwiched between Vlad and Cruz, being an easier out, pitchers wouldn't mess around, they would come straight at him, he should get more fast balls, which is better for most hitters. Biggio at 9th for the same reason , you don't want to face Springer, Vlad, Cruz, Semien with runners on.

Filthy line up
 

Discoverer

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
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I dont know if Cruz should be the target. The DH spot is already covered with the extra OF and will do well for this lineup. If there was a gaping hole it is at 3B. I would rather try to upgrade that spot in our lineup.

I know he is a right handed hitter but my target would be Jonathan Schoop. He's another lethal bat, and although he has little time played at 3B he does have experience. He wouldnt be any worse then Biggio there.

1. Semien - 2B
2. Bichette - SS
3. Vladdy - 1B
4. Springer - CF
5. Hernandez - RF
6. Schoop - 3B
7. Gurriel - LF
8. Grichuk - DH
9. McGuire/Jansen - C

That is a lethal lineup.

Schoop is at best a lateral move from Biggio. Biggio has a higher wRC+ over the last three years and Schoop actually has worse defensive stats at 3B (in addition to not having played an inning at the position since 2014). You've brought positional versatility up with other players with little to no experience before, so I think you tend to understate how difficult it is to play a new position well. When a guy played a position poorly for 17 games 7 years ago, for all intents and purposes he might as well have never played the position before.

If I'm looking at 3B, I'm looking for a real, substantial upgrade over Biggio who we know can play the position.
 

Puckstuff

Registered User
May 12, 2010
11,139
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I seriously think we should go all in for Jose Ramirez.

  • Top 5 in position player WAR over the last 2 seasons, just ahead of Semien and Vlad.
  • He immediately adds 5+ WAR to 3B and he addresses our biggest weakness which is 3B.
  • He would be an elite #4 bat behind Vlad and plays good D at 3B.
  • His age fits in with our core.
  • We get him for 3 potential playoff runs years and 2.5 years of club control which is where this teams window is probably the strongest, especially 2022 and 2023 but we can make a run this year too.
  • He's a clear cultural fit.

There have been rumours about this player before with Cleveland operating like the Rays the last couple of years by moving high profile players like Lindor and Clevinger. Cleveland is on a 9 game losing streak and they're not looking like a playoff team. They may capitulate and sell off some off their better players if this continues. Cleveland losing games from here on out would be a good thing.


1. Springer
2. Semien
3. Gurrerro Jr.
4. Ramirez
5. Bichette
6. Teoscar
7. Kirk
8. Gurriel Jr
9. Biggio
 

BlueForever75

Registered User
Oct 4, 2017
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I seriously think we should go all in for Jose Ramirez.

  • Top 5 in position player WAR over the last 2 seasons, just ahead of Semien and Vlad.
  • He immediately adds 5+ WAR to 3B and he addresses our biggest weakness which is 3B.
  • He would be an elite #4 bat behind Vlad and plays good D at 3B.
  • His age fits in with our core.
  • We get him for 3 potential playoff runs years and 2.5 years of club control which is where this teams window is probably the strongest, especially 2022 and 2023 but we can make a run this year too.
  • He's a clear cultural fit.

There have been rumours about this player before with Cleveland operating like the Rays the last couple of years by moving high profile players like Lindor and Clevinger. Cleveland is on a 9 game losing streak and they're not looking like a playoff team. They may capitulate and sell off some off their better players if this continues. Cleveland losing games from here on out would be a good thing.


1. Springer
2. Semien
3. Gurrerro Jr.
4. Ramirez
5. Bichette
6. Teoscar
7. Kirk
8. Gurriel Jr
9. Biggio


I like Ramirez alot but the prospect capital would be huge going the other way.

If we can trade Jansen, Groshans and Kloff to get him I would do it. But thats about it. Manoah, Pearson, Moreno, Kirk and SWR are off limits.
 

TopChedder

Registered User
Oct 2, 2013
2,597
2,134
I seriously think we should go all in for Jose Ramirez.

  • Top 5 in position player WAR over the last 2 seasons, just ahead of Semien and Vlad.
  • He immediately adds 5+ WAR to 3B and he addresses our biggest weakness which is 3B.
  • He would be an elite #4 bat behind Vlad and plays good D at 3B.
  • His age fits in with our core.
  • We get him for 3 potential playoff runs years and 2.5 years of club control which is where this teams window is probably the strongest, especially 2022 and 2023 but we can make a run this year too.
  • He's a clear cultural fit.

There have been rumours about this player before with Cleveland operating like the Rays the last couple of years by moving high profile players like Lindor and Clevinger. Cleveland is on a 9 game losing streak and they're not looking like a playoff team. They may capitulate and sell off some off their better players if this continues. Cleveland losing games from here on out would be a good thing.


1. Springer
2. Semien
3. Gurrerro Jr.
4. Ramirez
5. Bichette
6. Teoscar
7. Kirk
8. Gurriel Jr
9. Biggio

This lineup would be one of the best ever. This is historically good.

Filthy
 
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TheMadHatTrick

Registered User
Nov 2, 2008
6,731
2,802
If only Crus was a lefty masher. Would give the lineup so much balance. What about Rizzo if he's available? Pending free agent not having a great year so it might not cost as much.

Kimbrell and Rizzo would be great adds. As much as we need a starter, a lights out bullpen guy would really have won us a lot of games this year.
 

Bjindaho

Registered User
Jun 12, 2006
6,861
1,636
The greedy version of me wants Ramirez, Barrios, Cruz AND Kimbrel.

It would be expensive but it would also put all of baseball on notice that we're coming for them.
 

Gargyn

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
7,698
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Kelowna, BC
The greedy version of me wants Ramirez, Barrios, Cruz AND Kimbrel.

It would be expensive but it would also put all of baseball on notice that we're coming for them.
And the bullpen would still blow games. Merryweather ain’t coming back and if he does he will be injured again soon enough. Cimber and Richards are nice adds but the pen needs Kimbrel plus another top arm. But I agree that would be insane. We need a 3B, a top starter and 2 good relievers to be a true contender.
 

OVO16

#WeTheNorth
Apr 16, 2017
9,976
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Are we gonna make the playoffs. Ya'll getting me giddy with all this talk about trades for big names
 

Canada4Gold

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
42,999
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The greedy version of me wants Ramirez, Barrios, Cruz AND Kimbrel.

It would be expensive but it would also put all of baseball on notice that we're coming for them.

Who even plays if you add Cruz and Ramirez? Biggio to the OF and Gurriel becomes a bench player?
 

TGB

Registered User
Jun 7, 2021
736
250
Aside from starting pitching to address imminent holes and relief, the only thing I'd really like to see the Jays do is trade one of our bountiful crop of infielders for a top tier outfielding prospect. Springer is fragile and all of our other fielders only have a couple years or so of their contracts remaining. Palacios is nice and all, but he's less of a big prospect and more of a guy you're rooting for, and Martin and Taylor are still mostly in the infield camp.

We need a 3B, a top starter and 2 good relievers to be a true contender.

Not sure why everyone wants a 3B. We don't need the added offense and the fielding hasn't been so bad as to be the cause of many blown games, not compared to the bullpen. It would be nice, but unless you grab a young person with years of control, it's not worth the amount of players it's going to take to pull it off. And, again, you've just blown prospect capital on something we don't need which is pitching. Next year? Take your choice of Espinal, Smith, or Lopez, or sign one of the SS available. Pitching wise? You've got to make up two big holes in the rotation, and another one next year and the year after that and your only good choices are SWR and Hatch, and Pearson is becoming a real question mark. Not too bad, but you always want at least two proven guys to hold down the fort while the kids learn and grow.

Biggio to the OF and Gurriel becomes a bench player?

If Biggio doesn't start hitting home runs again, then I'm fine with relegating him to the bench as a utility infielder and playing Espinal more often. The guy gets on base, sure, but if he's just doing it with singles and walks while playing mostly blah defense, then I'd rather give it to the guy who is showing signs of growing into a good average guy with solid defense.

That said, sophomore slumps are a real thing, so I'm not making any judgment calls on Biggio just yet.
 
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ER89

Registered User
Jul 25, 2018
4,573
4,551
A lineup addition of that calibre pretty much forces a lineup shakeup because I don't think you can justify hitting him that low. He's in his 3rd straight season of better than 150 wRC+ and hasn't been below 130 since 2013.

1. Springer
2. Vlad
3. Cruz
4. Semien
5. Bo
6. Teoscar
7. Biggio
8. Gurriel
9. Jansen/McGuire

There are a ton of options there, but it would be ridiculous no matter how you stack it.
Best hitting lineup in the mlB?
 

phillipmike

Registered User
Oct 27, 2009
12,525
8,334
Another interesting name instead of Cruz for DH is Carlos Santana. Switch hitting 1B with more walks than strikeouts and a decent wRC+ of 115. Atkins and Shapiro know him well from Cleveland.

The only downside is he has one more year at $10.5M and he doesn’t have a good playoff record. But that may mean the price is cheaper and perhaps KC retains on him. In this lineup I bet he does a lot better.
 

phillipmike

Registered User
Oct 27, 2009
12,525
8,334
Man... not to put too much stock into 40 games of rookie ball stats but yeah I certainly like this lottery ticket over Hector Perez.

100%. Especially since Hector Perez as a 8 ERA and more walks than Ks as a reliever in AAA with the Reds. Nothing may come of this trade but the lottery ticket is better than someone we know isnt going to be anything special in the majors.
 
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djdev

Registered User
Dec 26, 2015
6,037
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costa rica
if we are going for ramirez im actually way more open to trading pearson now than i was last year. dude seems to have aaron sanchez disease unfortunately. i hope im wrong and he can actually stay healthy but im not so sure presently.
 

Blitzkrug

Registered User
Sep 17, 2013
25,785
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Winnipeg


I don't care how little it makes sense, give me ALL OF THE DINGERS.

It's foolproof. Literally hit so many home runs the bullpen can't quite possibly blow the lead.

Baseball pundits: They need bullpen arms

Jays FO: haha righty killer go brrrrrr
 
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