News Article: Jimmy Howard extension coming (Maybe/Maybe not)

[Steve Yzerlland]

Holland has quite the history to make that call. If Yzerman sticks around in Tampa for a decade and finds a way to trsnsition all the players that will take huge steps back due to age, sure. Holland has atleast done that once. Yzerman has yet to take a team with an old roster and flip it because he hasn't been in that position before. A new penny always shines you know?

Holland inherited a championship caliber team. Had no salary cap era an owner willing to spend and Hakan Andersen finding him late round gems.... Since 2012 he has destroyed this team

 

[Invictus12]

Holland inherited a championship caliber team. Had no salary cap era an owner willing to spend and Hakan Andersen finding him late round gems.... Since 2012 he has destroyed this team

And Yzerman inherited a ship wreck in TB??? So you'll discredit Holland on the very things you praise Yzerman for? Here's the thing though, Holland had actually had to transition the team before and done quite well the first time. Now its morr bumpy sure but Yzerman never faced anything even remotely close yet. I remember the poster boy here was once Bowman of the Chicago Blackhawks. Can't use that narrative now can you when players get older, need more money, etc?... Yzerman, if he sticks long enough, will face the same problems. At this point, if or when he arrives here, no matter the spin, he will be looking at a young team that has literally no way but to go upwards and guess who will leave it that way to him?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

And Yzerman inherited a ship wreck in TB??? So you'll discredit Holland on the very things you praise Yzerman for? Here's the thing though, Holland had actually had to transition the team before and done quite well the first time. Now its morr bumpy sure but Yzerman never faced anything even remotely close yet. I remember the poster boy here was once Bowman of the Chicago Blackhawks. Can't use that narrative now can you when players get older, need more money, etc?... Yzerman, if he sticks long enough, will face the same problems. At this point, if or when he arrives here, no matter the spin, he will be looking at a young team that has literally no way but to go upwards and guess who will leave it that way to him?

If you think Holland has done a great job for the past 7 years then agree to disagree!

 

[dragonballgtz]

After what I saw last night, the narrative of "we have to sign Jimmy because we have no goalie depth to bridge the gap blah blah blah" should be thrown out the window and burned. Losing him changes absolutely nothing. He doesn't determine if we make the playoffs next year or not so if he isn't willing to sign a TEAM FRIENDLY DEAL he can go. He is injury prone and 35+. This "loyalty" and the country club approach to our vets has to stop. /rant

I believe he just gave up and to be frank, I wouldn't blame him at all. I'm sure there is only so much he can take of playing in front of this team before he waved the white flag.

 

[Invictus12]

If you think Holland has done a great job for the past 7 years then agree to disagree!

Ultimately, what he tried to do was failed but I look at the context and not just the end result. He tried to get Suter but that failed. Weiss, pretty much went south the minute he got here. Cole went the same way. Franzen went the same way. Zetterberg and Datsyuk took turns on being hurt. Kronwall broke down as well. Ericsson got hip problems...
I think Holland ultimately tried to squeeze a run or two out of this team. However, when literally all your top players are getting injured, the players you acquire for short stints have their careers ended on the day they put the Red Wings jersey on.... Yeah, I think he ran into a lot of bad luck...

Let me put it this way... If in the next couple of weeks Tampa loses Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, and Hedman, how far in playoffs do you think they go? When season after season we never have a fully healthy roster but still limp our way to playoffs, its hard to say the team didn't have what it took. Except health ofcourse. And we can go over the outrage if you want! Lets follow the logic of fans at the time, shall we? We shouldn't sign this guy or that guy because we have the following: Sproul, Ouelette, Pulkkinen and whatevet other prospect that we supposedly held back and has yet to make it full tine anywhere in the NHL. I remember what this board was calling for and since you want to use hindsight results, I'll use them as well and we sure as hell aren't any better off. Just a rotation of an AHL roster.

 

[Claypool]

Holland inherited a championship caliber team.

He's been with the organization since 1983.

 

[jkutswings]

Let me put it this way... If in the next couple of weeks Tampa loses Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, and Hedman, how far in playoffs do you think they go? When season after season we never have a fully healthy roster but still limp our way to playoffs, its hard to say the team didn't have what it took. Except health of course.

That's where we agree to disagree. If Tampa is healthy, they absolutely have the talent to chase a Cup. From 2013 onward, Detroit at max health and the top of their game still wasn't winning more than a round or two. Realistically, the window had closed.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

He's been with the organization since 1983.

Not as the GM

 

[kliq]

That's where we agree to disagree. If Tampa is healthy, they absolutely have the talent to chase a Cup. From 2013 onward, Detroit at max health and the top of their game still wasn't winning more than a round or two. Realistically, the window had closed.

Agreed. With hindsight being 20/20, I think that 2013 playoff run gave them false hope. Had we lost 1st round to the Ducks, I can see the next few years being different. Then again there was still the streak, so who knows.

 

[lilidk]

By the way , Mrazek is amazing.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Ultimately, what he tried to do was failed but I look at the context and not just the end result. He tried to get Suter but that failed. Weiss, pretty much went south the minute he got here. Cole went the same way. Franzen went the same way. Zetterberg and Datsyuk took turns on being hurt. Kronwall broke down as well. Ericsson got hip problems...
I think Holland ultimately tried to squeeze a run or two out of this team. However, when literally all your top players are getting injured, the players you acquire for short stints have their careers ended on the day they put the Red Wings jersey on.... Yeah, I think he ran into a lot of bad luck...

Let me put it this way... If in the next couple of weeks Tampa loses Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, and Hedman, how far in playoffs do you think they go? When season after season we never have a fully healthy roster but still limp our way to playoffs, its hard to say the team didn't have what it took. Except health ofcourse. And we can go over the outrage if you want! Lets follow the logic of fans at the time, shall we? We shouldn't sign this guy or that guy because we have the following: Sproul, Ouelette, Pulkkinen and whatevet other prospect that we supposedly held back and has yet to make it full tine anywhere in the NHL. I remember what this board was calling for and since you want to use hindsight results, I'll use them as well and we sure as hell aren't any better off. Just a rotation of an AHL roster.

I don't disagree per se, but those lightening stars arent in their early to mid 30s, with various nagging injury histories.

To me that's the difference as losing alm those ightening players would be 100 times less predictable or expected in pro sports

 

[Invictus12]

That's where we agree to disagree. If Tampa is healthy, they absolutely have the talent to chase a Cup. From 2013 onward, Detroit at max health and the top of their game still wasn't winning more than a round or two. Realistically, the window had closed.

Kind of hard to judge that. We got smacked around by Boston but had youngsters that year pull us intoa payoff spot. The same Boston team did the same thing to Pittsburgh the year before. Looked like Holland tried to address that with Cole only to have h play 2 games, I think? Next season, with injured Datsyuk, Ericsson and missing Franzm we gave Tampa a very strong run. And they were a top team. I don't it quite matters that it was the first round as some paint the narrative.

 

[Invictus12]

I don't disagree per se, but those lightening stars arent in their early to mid 30s, with various nagging injury histories.

To me that's the difference as losing alm those ightening players would be 100 times less predictable or expected in pro sports

True but the beat around here was that Holland was wasting the last good years of Datsyuk and Zetterberg by not playing youngsters. When it was finally clear that youngsters were not hacking it, the beat instead became that Holland mismanagrd the team by failing to firesale. Thos goal posts always moved... The reality was though that we had the roster to make a push but nothing came together for us.

 

[jkutswings]

Kind of hard to judge that.

How so?

The previous two years, Detroit was handily outplayed by a bigger, faster, hungrier San Jose team. Then they got smoked by Nashville - a team that had always been their whipping boy - in the first round.

By the time that Preds series was over, they either needed a major shot in the arm to reload, or needed to entertain the start of a rebuild. No amount of depth moves or small tweaks was getting that core back to the mountaintop.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Holland inherited a championship caliber team. Had no salary cap era an owner willing to spend and Hakan Andersen finding him late round gems.... Since 2012 he has destroyed this team

Yzerman inherited a roster with an elite C, elite D, a Hart trophy level wing, got another Hart trophy level wing with a second round pick and several other good late round/UDFA finds. And hell, had a 3OA in there too. Also, has the Tampa weather and no state tax to sign Steven Stamkos for at least 2.5M less than any other team would have him on their books for. And Kucherov and Hedman for about another million to million and a half off. Basically compared to other rosters, they got a free Justin Abdelkader salary slot. And how many titles did Tampa win?

I don't mean this to denigrate Yzerman, just say that he really really isn't as different from Holland as you want to make him.

And since 2012, TIME has destroyed this team. Not Holland. They didn't find replacements for their elite talent or the replacements haven't matured enough yet.

 

[TCNorthstars]

No, not at all. You made perfectly good points.

lol, aside from using car and investment in the same sentence!

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Holland inherited a championship caliber team. Had no salary cap era an owner willing to spend and Hakan Andersen finding him late round gems.... Since 2012 he has destroyed this team

Also, guess what, all the tough competition that Holland was against back then had no salary cap and owners willing to spend.

Colorado, Dallas, Philadelphia? All of them had crazy payrolls too. St. Louis, NYR, Toronto? Those guys too. But sure, Steve Yzerman is just a god among men and Ken Holland is a Make-a-Wish kid who got dropped into a magical situation that anyone could manage.

 

[Invictus12]

How so?

The previous two years, Detroit was handily outplayed by a bigger, faster, hungrier San Jose team. Then they got smoked by Nashville - a team that had always been their whipping boy - in the first round.

By the time that Preds series was over, they either needed a major shot in the arm to reload, or needed to entertain the start of a rebuild. No amount of depth moves or small tweaks was getting that core back to the mountaintop.

And the following year we took down Anaheim, one of the favorites for the cup and then took the eventual cup winners and fell short of one goal to advance. You look at the history of this team in the aftetmath of 97 and 98 wins, we lost to Colorado in 99 and 00 and then a 1 round exit against Vancouver in 01. Then some doors opened up when all of our core was on the wrong side of 30 and things came together. We had some bad runs back in the early 00s as we did in the early 2010s. The only difference was that things didn't go in our favor this time. Neither Tatar or Nyquist took leaps forward beyond what they showed in the 2014 season. Most of our top players were rotating with constant injuries and we still managed to be very competitive against Tampa. You don't think something simple as Franzen being in the line up and Datsyuk being healthy and hell, Kronwall not getting the suspension could gave pushed that team over?

 

[Invictus12]

lol, aside from using car and investment in the same sentence!

Well, the overall concept was pretty spot on.

 

[Reddwit]

Y’all are giving me a heart attack by bumping these threads with old titles!

I’d say Howard has shit the bed enough recently and shown he can only be a half-season stud for years now that he’s lost his right to be locked in before late June.

I’d go after Lehner if he’s still around or throw an offer sheet at Brossoit if Winnipeg isn’t willing to give him up. They can’t afford to keep him for much with their cap situation and he’s not a priority. Any offer for Binnington would be matched. If we’re stuck with Howard by free agency, then fine. But Id only give him 2 years at most and even then, I’d design his contract such that by July 1 next year, as much of his salary could be paid in bonuses as is kosher so if we want to dump him, any team acquiring him would barely have to pay him real money.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Howard has lost thr right tk anything more than 1 year deals at this point.

Pay him 6 million for a year but we cant make him unmovable

 

[jkutswings]

You don't think something simple as Franzen being in the line up and Datsyuk being healthy and hell, Kronwall not getting the suspension could gave pushed that team over?

Over to the next round? Sure. Over to 16 wins? No way. The fluctuations previous to that time are normal, but over that entire run, the best players were reaching the end of their prime, and new players were not of the same tier of talent to indicate that the run could keep going. The single season of Anaheim/Chicago was the anomaly, not the trend.

 

[Invictus12]

Over to the next round? Sure. Over to 16 wins? No way. The fluctuations previous to that time are normal, but over that entire run, the best players were reaching the end of their prime, and new players were not of the same tier of talent to indicate that the run could keep going. The single season of Anaheim/Chicago was the anomaly, not the trend.

Yeah, the east was very open for a deep run. And no, it definitely wasn't a trend but there was a lot to work with but as Holland himself put it, towards the end of the season, the wheels were coming off. And look at the general problems we facef with Tamps, our small forward were being manhandled by bigger defences in their zone. A guy like Cole and Franzen could definitely have made a big difference.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Yzerman inherited a roster with an elite C, elite D, a Hart trophy level wing, got another Hart trophy level wing with a second round pick and several other good late round/UDFA finds. And hell, had a 3OA in there too. Also, has the Tampa weather and no state tax to sign Steven Stamkos for at least 2.5M less than any other team would have him on their books for. And Kucherov and Hedman for about another million to million and a half off. Basically compared to other rosters, they got a free Justin Abdelkader salary slot. And how many titles did Tampa win?

I don't mean this to denigrate Yzerman, just say that he really really isn't as different from Holland as you want to make him.

And since 2012, TIME has destroyed this team. Not Holland. They didn't find replacements for their elite talent or the replacements haven't matured enough yet.

Simply not true. He tried to put bandaids on bullet holes and the ship sank.

 

[jkutswings]

And no, it definitely wasn't a trend but there was a lot to work with but as Holland himself put it, towards the end of the season, the wheels were coming off.

I didn't mean a trend within a season, but one over several years. They won in 2008, nearly won again in 2009, and then declined. They were a good but not great team twice against the Sharks, noticeably a step behind against Nashville, got completely trucked against Boston, and did not deserve to win either series against Tampa. Again, the Anaheim/Chicago was the outlier.

Overall, it kept falling until The Streak ended, but (personally), I felt it was definitely over after Nashville. YMMV.