jarek
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2009
- 10,004
- 238
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total |
Frank Nighbor | 16 | 0 | 4 | 20 |
Patrick Kane | 14 | 5 | 0 | 19 |
Cy Denneny | 12 | 5 | 0 | 17 |
Vladimir Krutov | 14 | 2 | 0 | 16 |
Bob Nevin | 12 | 0 | 4 | 16 |
Vaclav Nedomansky | 12 | 4 | 0 | 16 |
Frank Fredrickson | 12 | 3 | 0 | 15 |
Mickey MacKay | 10 | 2 | 3 | 15 |
Sergei Kapustin | 12 | 0 | 0 | 12 |
Jerry Toppazzini | 8 | 0 | 3 | 11 |
Vic Hadfield | 8 | 0 | 0 | 8 |
Don McKenney | 8 | 0 | 0 | 8 |
138 | 21 | 14 |
Player | ES | PP | PK | Total |
Pierre Pilote | 16 | 5 | 2 | 23 |
František Pospíšil | 15 | 3 | 4 | 22 |
Rod Langway | 16 | 0 | 5 | 21 |
Doug Mohns | 15 | 4 | 0 | 18 |
Ted Green | 15 | 0 | 3 | 18 |
Nikolai Sologubov | 15 | 2 | 0 | 17 |
92 | 14 | 14 |
2 outside the norm kind of rosters and two of our more active participants, this should be interesting.
Nighbor might be the perfect guy to check Gretzky
Good luck to both of you
2 outside the norm kind of rosters and two of our more active participants, this should be interesting.
Nighbor might be the perfect guy to check Gretzky
Good luck to both of you
12. Forwards - even strength usage - top 50 playoffs
Another even-strength statistic that Gretzky dominates - yawn.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Player GP ES% Wayne Gretzky 208 47.4% Pavel Bure 64 42.5% Joe Sakic 172 41.3% Mario Lemieux 107 40.8% Zach Parise 94 40.6% Doug Gilmour 182 40.3% Adam Oates 163 40.1% Nicklas Backstrom 96 39.5% Bernie Federko 91 39.1% Bobby Hull 113 39.1% Eric Staal 53 38.7% Ryan Getzlaf 121 38.5% Mark Messier 236 38.4% Paul Stastny 55 37.9% Kevin Stevens 103 37.9% Gilbert Perreault 90 37.9% Alex Ovechkin 97 37.8% Jarome Iginla 81 37.6% Frank Mahovlich 125 37.5% Norm Ullman 87 37.5% Sidney Crosby 148 37.3% Gordie Howe 68 36.9%
Penalty Kill - Defencemen regular season
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Player GP SH% TmSH+ $SHP/82 Jacques Laperriere 691 76% 0.90 2 J.C. Tremblay 796 66% 0.94 1 Marcel Pronovost 636 66% 0.96 1 Bill White 604 65% 0.88 1 Bobby Orr 657 62% 0.78 6 Francois Beauchemin 836 60% 1.08 1 Jay Bouwmeester 1071 59% 0.95 1 Serge Savard 1040 58% 0.82 2 Ray Bourque 1612 58% 0.88 2 Bill Hajt 854 57% 0.77 1 Chris Chelios 1651 57% 0.85 2 Barry Beck 615 57% 1.01 1 Tim Horton 1010 57% 0.92 2 Jim Schoenfeld 719 56% 0.77 1 Scott Stevens 1635 56% 0.88 1 Zdeno Chara 1350 56% 0.90 2 Willie Mitchell 907 56% 0.90 1 Derian Hatcher 1045 56% 0.89 1 Alex Pietrangelo 539 55% 0.84 1 Borje Salming 1148 55% 1.09 1 Rob Scuderi 783 55% 0.91 1 Chris Pronger 1167 55% 0.91 1 Bob Stewart 575 54% 1.19 1 Bob Plager 644 54% 1.00 1 Denis Potvin 1060 53% 0.82 2 Harry Howell 932 53% 1.05 1 Rod Langway 994 53% 0.83 1 Adam Foote 1154 53% 0.99 1 Dave Burrows 724 53% 1.05 1 Dan Hamhuis 951 53% 0.93 1 Carol Vadnais 1087 53% 0.98 1 Moose Vasko 600 53% 1.00 1 Niklas Hjalmarsson 623 53% 0.97 2 Guy Lapointe 884 53% 0.76 1 Tom Laidlaw 705 52% 0.98 1 Duncan Keith 913 52% 0.95 2 Richard Matvichuk 796 52% 0.86 1 Dan Girardi 788 52% 0.84 2 Nicklas Lidstrom 1564 52% 0.81 2
3. Defensemen - penalty kill usage - top 50 PLAYOFFS
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Player GP PK% Alex Pietrangelo 57 67.7% Scott Stevens 233 65.4% Reg Fleming 50 63.6% Roman Josi 52 63.0% Serge Savard 130 62.0% Jim Schoenfeld 75 61.8% Jacques Laperriere 88 61.8% Adam Foote 170 61.1% Francois Beauchemin 97 61.0% Bob Plager 74 60.7% Bill White 91 60.0% Barry Beck 51 59.2% Ian Turnbull 55 58.5% Bobby Orr 74 58.3% Hal Gill 111 58.0% Ray Bourque 214 57.9% J.C. Tremblay 108 57.7% Brian Leetch 95 57.4% Borje Salming 81 57.0% Guy Lapointe 123 57.0% Bill Hajt 80 56.5% Zdeno Chara 147 56.0% Craig Ludwig 177 55.0% Jimmy Roberts 153 55.0% Marcel Pronovost 63 53.7% Brad Marsh 97 53.6% Tim Horton 106 53.3% Tom Poti 51 53.2% Pat Stapleton 65 53.1% Dallas Smith 86 52.9% Brent Seabrook 123 52.1% Chris Chelios 266 51.8% Nicklas Lidstrom 263 51.6% Phil Russell 73 51.6% Denis Potvin 185 51.1% Chris Pronger 173 51.0% .
Coach - Gorman is pretty much regarded as a top 10 coach. I think he clearly outclasses Ross here.
I've never understood why Gorman's viewed this highly. 2 Cups is impressive, but 8 seasons with a .500 record isn't much or a record.
I think it's the fact he took less than dominant teams (2 separate teams in back to back years) to the promised land rather than being part of dynasties (Bowman, Blake, Arbour etc).
Plus he had some part in building the Ottawa dynasty of the 20's
and is the only person in the 4 major professional sports to manage 4 different teams to titles. So you have an elite builder who also proved he could take multiple teams to the title, behind the bench. That's my take on it anyway.
To answer the question about why take McKenney over Giroux: Giroux's scoring is heavily PP biased. I wouldn't be surprised if he's one of the most PP reliant players in the entire ATD, although admittedly I haven't looked into this too thoroughly. McKenney is a more useful player at even strength I would imagine.
]Admittedly though, perhaps I could have used him as he probably would have been my best PP center. At least according to Dreakmur!
13. Forwards - even strength "R-ON/R-OFF" ratio - top 50 postseason
Gordie Howe barely misses the top fifty (he's +0.40).[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Player GP R-ON R-OFF Difference Billy Carroll 71 2.82 1.71 1.11 Dixon Ward 62 2.06 0.96 1.10 John McKenzie 67 2.24 1.30 0.94 Phil Kessel 71 1.88 0.97 0.90 Benoit Brunet 54 1.89 1.04 0.85 Mike Foligno 57 1.50 0.68 0.82 Milan Michalek 63 1.57 0.77 0.79 Pierre Mondou 68 2.00 1.27 0.73 Nick Spaling 57 1.82 1.10 0.72 Stew Gavin 66 1.44 0.73 0.71 Chris Dingman 52 1.83 1.12 0.71 Anze Kopitar 75 1.69 0.99 0.70 Darcy Rota 60 1.33 0.66 0.68 Peter Forsberg 151 1.59 0.94 0.65 Nate Thompson 58 1.65 1.03 0.62 Claude Giroux 63 1.34 0.73 0.61
Fun fact- Patrice Bergeron has the best R-ON ratio of any forward in playoff history who appeared in 100+ games.
Our friendly HoH veteran @Batis provided me with many examples of Martinec being a dominant PK player for the Czech national team and I think he'd be perfectly acceptable as a 1st unit player here, certainly a standout on a 2nd unit. Couple him with Gretzky, the all time leading short handed points getter and you have an absolutely lethal 2nd F pair, especially counter attacking.
Yes, they would be a constant scoring threat on PK too; for starters, both were among the best pickpockets ever, and, of course, would be lethal on a 2-on-1 or even on a 2-on-2. Very exciting duo imho!
The trouble is that I'm not quite certain Gretzky is that great of a defender on the PK. He was there to do one thing - score goals.
If he was out there against a guy like Housley or Lyapkin, I'd be concerned, but my PP defensemen are fine defenders too, so I don't think it's really that big an issue.
Well, being a good penalty killer doesn't necessarily mean that you also have to be a good defensive player.
Gretzky and Martinec might not be the best forward pair at preventing PP goals (?), but they would definitely keep the opposition on their toes all the time, no room for mistakes; both had a great anticipation and, like said, were great at stealing pucks; I can see many breakaways, 2-on-1s etc.
EDIT: This is not so important, not really something that the series will be decided on(!) But at least in theory, G-M would be a good forward pair on the PK in my opinion.
Well, being a good penalty killer doesn't necessarily mean that you also have to be a good defensive player.
Gretzky and Martinec might not be the best forward pair at preventing PP goals (?), but they would definitely keep the opposition on their toes all the time, no room for mistakes; both had a great anticipation and, like said, were great at stealing pucks; I can see many breakaways, 2-on-1s etc.
EDIT: This is not so important, not really something that the series will be decided on(!) But at least in theory, G-M would be a good forward pair on the PK in my opinion.
Precisely. Just the mere presence of Gretzky and Martinec (who via video and studies seemed to be a very good and heavily used PK'er) puts the opposing power play on edge. It's going to be in the back of their minds that any little mistake and there's a very good chance you're facing two very elite threats going the other way. Gretzky may not have been a plus defender at ES but he was certainly adept enough on the kill to generate ridiculous scoring totals short handed.
If you were going to do a +/- for the PK in this series, I would expect my Nighbor - Nevin combo to be the best, followed by Kennedy - Westfall, MacKay - Toppazzini, then Gretzky - Martinec.
FWIW, the real life Gretzky-Kurri combo is among the all time great pairings in real life PK +/-
I'm fine with Gretzky on the PK here but what makes Kennedy a 1st unit PK man? I don't see a whole lot to support his PK'ing ability.
Let's look at the 1948-49 through 1954-55 time period now. I've chosen to end with the 1954-55 season as the powerful Montreal power play of 1955-56 is well known and we'll save that for the next period.
First, the season by season numbers.
Evidently the power play has arrived to stay as a significant part of the offence. Every season in this time has at least 30 PPG per team, and in that last two years of this period it's up over 40 PPG per team -- approaching scoring levels we have seen within the last 5 years.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Season PPG/team SHG/team 1948-49 32.0 4.2 1949-50 37.8 0.5 1950-51 30.7 3.8 1951-52 36.8 3.8 1952-53 33.3 4.5 1953-54 41.5 3.7 1954-55 40.5 4.7
I had hoped that data quality issues were behind us, but something stands out in this table. For the season of 1949-50, only 3 shorthanded goals are recorded in the data. All other seasons have 20+ shorthanded goals. In my opinion this total is implausibly low and we have missing SHG data from 1949-50.
However, we can still look at the PP scoring for this period, and the SH scoring for the other seasons.
Top PP teams for this time period. The Detroit Red Wings dynasty dominates the leaderboard, but several other single season teams appear. The Toronto Maple Leafs of 1950-51 were actually the best compared to the league. The Montreal team of 1954-55 appears--not surprising considering their success in 1955-56 would lead to a rule change. And the New York Rangers of 1953-54 appear on the leaderboard with a very interesting powerplay strategy, using PP specialists to a degree never done before or since.
Next, let's see the top individual PP scorers for this time.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Rank Team Season GP PPG SHGA LgAvg VsLg 1 Toronto Maple Leafs 1950-51 70 49 1 30.7 1.60 2 Detroit Red Wings 1952-53 70 52 4 33.3 1.56 3 Detroit Red Wings 1949-50 70 55 0 37.8 1.45 4 Montréal Canadiens 1954-55 70 56 3 40.5 1.38 5 Detroit Red Wings 1953-54 70 55 2 41.5 1.33 6 Detroit Red Wings 1951-52 70 47 5 36.8 1.28 7 Detroit Red Wings 1948-49 60 39 4 32.0 1.22 8 Detroit Red Wings 1950-51 70 37 6 30.7 1.21 9 New York Rangers 1953-54 70 50 6 41.5 1.20 10 Montréal Canadiens 1952-53 70 40 3 33.3 1.20
No surprise that Gordie Howe was number one, as he was the dominant scorer of this time period. He was more a playmaker than goal scorer on the PP, with almost twice as many assists as goals. He would run the Detroit power play from the point in the 60s. I'm not sure if he was doing so at this time in his career.
Max Bentley, the dominant PP scorer of the 40s, ranks high here as well.
We see defencemen high in the rankings for the first time with Doug Harvey, Red Kelly, and Jimmy Thomson in the top 15. Thomson must have been very much a passer, not a shooter, with 1 PPG and 59 PPA.
And let's look at the leading scorers on some of the top single season units.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Rank Player Team Pos GP G A P PPG PPA PPP EVP SHP 1 Gordie Howe Detroit R 454 248 267 515 50 91 141 370 4 2 Maurice Richard Montreal R 449 235 180 415 68 54 122 290 3 3 Ted Lindsay Detroit L 445 180 251 431 48 65 113 314 4 4 Ted Kennedy Toronto C 425 114 209 323 34 66 100 212 11 5 Max Bentley TOR, DET C 358 113 127 240 30 65 95 144 1 6 Doug Harvey Montreal D 470 36 182 218 10 81 91 122 5 7 Bert Olmstead Montreal L 411 87 195 282 28 62 90 191 1 8 Red Kelly Detroit D 468 103 194 297 29 60 89 197 11 9 Elmer Lach Montreal C 336 83 170 253 32 53 85 164 4 10 Sid Smith Toronto L 419 154 130 284 50 35 85 196 3 11 Bernie Geoffrion Montreal R 274 127 109 236 36 44 80 155 1 12 Sid Abel Detroit C 302 107 139 246 35 38 73 170 3 13 Paul Ronty Rangers C 464 98 200 298 28 39 67 229 2 14 Milt Schmidt Boston C 396 101 161 262 20 46 66 192 4 15 Jimmy Thomson Toronto D 469 13 145 158 1 59 60 94 4
1950-51 Toronto Maple Leafs
Once again Max Bentley shows up on a leading PP unit. Presumably Bentley and Thomson played the points, and Ted Kennedy, Tod Sloan, and Sid Smith were the main forwards.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Rank Player Pos PPG PPA PPP EVP 1 Max Bentley C 7 22 29 33 2 Ted Kennedy C 8 14 22 37 3 Tod Sloan C/R 10 9 19 37 4 Jimmy Thomson D 0 18 18 18 5 Sid Smith L 12 3 15 36 6 Danny Lewicki L 3 5 8 26 7 Joe Klukay L 2 3 5 23 8 Cal Gardner C 2 3 5 46
Next, let's look at the strongest PK units with the fewest goals against.
Hmmm. The Boston Bruins show up several times on the list of teams with fewest PPGA compared to the league. Now Boston was not a terrible team during this time, but they weren't a top defensive team either, usually finishing 4th of 6 teams in goals against. Is it probable that Boston was consistently the top penalty killing team of this time? Or do we have a continued issue with reporting of accurate PP and SH scoring data from Boston? Remember they did not show up in the list of top PP scoring teams at all.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Rank Team Season GP W L T Points HomeGP HomePPGA RoadGP RoadPPGA PPGA SHGF LgAvg VsLg 1 Boston Bruins 1952-53 70 28 29 13 69 35 7 35 11 18 6 33.3 0.54 2 Detroit Red Wings 1950-51 70 44 13 13 101 35 11 35 6 17 2 30.7 0.55 3 Boston Bruins 1950-51 70 22 30 18 62 35 6 35 13 19 3 30.7 0.62 4 Boston Bruins 1948-49 60 29 23 8 66 30 8 30 13 21 3 32.0 0.66 5 Montréal Canadiens 1949-50 70 29 22 19 77 35 12 35 13 25 1 37.8 0.66 6 Toronto Maple Leafs 1950-51 70 41 16 13 95 35 7 35 14 21 4 30.7 0.68 7 Boston Bruins 1949-50 70 22 32 16 60 35 9 35 19 28 0 37.8 0.74 8 Detroit Red Wings 1951-52 70 44 14 12 100 35 13 35 16 29 4 36.8 0.79 9 Boston Bruins 1951-52 70 25 29 16 66 35 14 35 16 30 3 36.8 0.81 10 Toronto Maple Leafs 1954-55 70 24 24 22 70 35 12 35 21 33 7 40.5 0.81
Here are the Boston numbers through this time period. The PPG and PPGA numbers are well below league average through 1952-53, and are then around league average for the 1953-54 and 1954-55 seasons. In my opinion the Boston stats may be suspect all the way through the 1952-53 season, with possible underreporting.
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Team Season GP W L T Points HomeGP HomePPG HomePPGA RoadGP RoadPPG RoadPPGA LgAvg PPG PPGA Boston Bruins 1948-49 60 29 23 8 66 30 19 8 30 10 13 32.0 29 21 Boston Bruins 1949-50 70 22 32 16 60 35 15 9 35 14 19 37.8 29 28 Boston Bruins 1950-51 70 22 30 18 62 35 18 6 35 14 13 30.7 32 19 Boston Bruins 1951-52 70 25 29 16 66 35 12 14 35 10 16 36.8 22 30 Boston Bruins 1952-53 70 28 29 13 69 35 20 7 35 5 11 33.3 25 18 Boston Bruins 1953-54 70 32 28 10 74 35 19 13 35 19 28 41.5 38 41 Boston Bruins 1954-55 70 23 26 21 67 35 24 14 35 13 28 40.5 37 42
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Rank Player Pos GP SHG SHA SHP P 1 Floyd Curry R 388 9 4 13 145 2 Red Kelly D 468 7 4 11 297 3 Ted Kennedy C 425 5 6 11 323 4 Ken Mosdell C 438 6 4 10 219 5 Gus Bodnar C 434 6 2 8 208 6 Ron Stewart R 193 4 3 7 79 7 Jim McFadden C 352 5 2 7 178 8 Tony Leswick L 479 4 2 6 194 9 Doug Harvey D 470 1 4 5 218 10 Marty Pavelich L 459 2 3 5 206
Maybe. How much of that was because of the era they played in? Etc.