Jim Benning TSN1040 - 6:10PM TODAY!

[tantalum]

There is truth to this. You're probably sacrificing upside, in lieu of risk. As high level AHL players have a much greater chance of playing in the NHL than your average 2nd, 3rd and 5th Rd picks.

Though I also do like the upside of guys like Baertschi and Pedan specifically. You very well could get a 50+ point player out of Baertschi, as well as a top 4 damn out of Pedan - with a skill set that is virtually impossible to find.

You might. OR you might bust completely.

Pedan concerns me less given he still have less than 80 games of pro experience. He's had injuries but in terms of playing time he's basically a first year pro. I understand taking a flyer on him. And a 3rd is easier to stomach than a second.

BUt Vey is now through 4 years of pro hockey and to me doesn't look anywhere near being a true full time NHL forward. Clendening is through 3 full seasons and I question whether he has what it takes to stick as a D-man in the league. Baertschi has talent of that there is no doubt. He also has no consistency and given he is going to make the NHL as a skill player it again throws things into question. That said I don't mind the Baertschi deal because there might be something there. It doesn't negate the negative of the other deals in my mind.

Heck, I'm not even upset Forsling was given up for Clendening. I understood the deal but now having watched Clendening I wonder if the pro-scouting was accurate.

 

[Huggy]

Garrison - Too slow doesn't match our game
Vey - First year, did ok, needs to bulk up
Sbisa - Expansion draft protection, just turned 25, more goals than 10.5 mil in Hamhuis Tanev combined and played on his off side with the worst NHL player currently in the NHL Bieksa
Dorsett - Plays the physical way we need our bot 6 to. Disappeared in Calgary but it is reasonable considering how bad the whole team was on the whole, our 11th forward wasn't gonna make a difference.
Vrbata - Easy signing, even easier 1st to pick up

Desjardins- Terrible decision but this is all the grand scheme to call up Green after he's own the cup with our new core.

Baertschi/Clendening/Concacher-

Pretty much affirms Benning is a shark in sheep's clothing

 

[Drop the Sopel]

And yet you arduously defend the team's acquisition of players like Dorsett, Sbisa, Bonino, and Vrbata as vital to the team increasing offense and making the product exciting so they can make the playoffs.

I'm not even sure you know what you're defending anymore

I'll let someone else engage your debate-club antics from here on in.

Never once defended the Sbisa acquisition or contract.

Said I didn't like moving a pick for a vet in Dorsett. Though that doesn't make it a bad move for a GM with a mandate to win now.

Bonino and Vrbata were instrumental in getting this team to the playoffs. I've also made trade proposals with both heading the other way, in an attempt to continue the re-tool and get younger.

I wanted more youth than we saw this season. But I'm also fully aware who the GM answers to and what the mandate from ownership is.

 

[MS]

Personally, I think the execution has been poor overall despite some decent moves. I also think the execution has been very poor in a couple areas that it is going to be hard to actually effectively move forward. The Bieksa deal is no longer a good one. And that is now compounded with a terrible deal to Sbisa. A poor deal to Dorsett and poor deal to Miller. The cap is likely coming down. This isn't a time to be excited over this management group IMO>

This is how I feel as well. One can talk about "getting younger", but it's how you do it. Vey's season has everyone questioning that 'eye for talent'. Further, a "winning environment" is great, but not so if your team is dragging along 12m+ in burned cap space. And of course "he's tough in scrums and hits" = 3.6m on term has everyone going.

It's execution.

Absolutely.

I've given credit to Benning all along for having the right game plan, in theory - continuing to contend for a playoff spot for the 2014-2016 seasons while maintaining a focus on integrating youth into the lineup whenever possible.

But the execution on that plan has been terrible.

Existing youth (Lack, Kassian, Stanton) buried or mis-handled. Awful contracts to bottom-end players which will completely capstrate the team. The Sbisa debacle. Delorme re-appearing. High picks for fringe players like Vey and Clendening. 1-2-3-4 Willie.

Everything is just messy. And inspires no confidence whatsoever. Right down to insipid junior signings like Sautner and Labate.

 

[CherryToke]

I think Benning's biggest mistake this year was underrating how bad the defense was/is. he must've thought he had four reliable top 4 dmen in Edler, Tanev, Hamhoose and Bieksa allowing him to ship out Garrison. boy was he wrong on that.

 

[VanJack]

Garrison - Too slow doesn't match our game
Vey - First year, did ok, needs to bulk up
Sbisa - Expansion draft protection, just turned 25, more goals than 10.5 mil in Hamhuis Tanev combined
Dorsett - Plays the physical way we need our bot 6 to. Disappeared in Calgary but it is reasonable considering how bad the whole team was on the whole, our 11th forward wasn't gonna make a difference.
Vrbata - Easy signing, even easier 1st to pick up

Desjardins- Terrible decision but this is all the grand scheme to call up Green after he's own the cup with our new core.

Baertschi/Clendening/Concacher-

Pretty much affirms Benning is a shark in sheep's clothing

...or he could be shark in a bowl of shark-fin soup....he's traded two seconds, two thirds and Forsling, and got back Dorsett, Vey, Baertshi, Pedan and Clendening.....other GM's are betting their former prospects are marginal busts because they got passed by others on their depth chart ....will be interesting to see which GM is a shark and which is a flounder.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

You might. OR you might bust completely.

We didn't draft an above replacement level NHL player outside the 1st Rd in the last 10 years. You could very well bust completely with those 2 2nds, a 3rd and Forsling too...

The only difference is we will find out much sooner what we have in these young assets.

 

[ugghhh]

We didn't draft an above replacement level NHL player outside the 1st Rd in the last 10 years. You could very well bust completely with those 2 2nds, a 3rd and Forsling too...

The only difference is we will find out much sooner what we have in these young assets.

The solution isn't to trade away draft picks, it's to

a) get more draft picks
b) replace our scouting staff

That being said, I don't mind those trades at all.

Hopefully we move Bieksa and Higgins to add some draft picks and cap space going into next season.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

The solution isn't to trade away draft picks, it's to

a) get more draft picks
b) replace our scouting staff

That being said, I don't mind those trades at all.

Hopefully we move Bieksa and Higgins to add some draft picks and cap space going into next season.

That's exactly what I think Benning will do.

If he doesn't move vets, or recoup picks, then I will start to worry about 'the plan' going forward.

Replacing the scouting staff will take years. High level scouts usually aren't sitting around unemployed, nor do they jump from one organization to another very often.

 

[VanJack]

We didn't draft an above replacement level NHL player outside the 1st Rd in the last 10 years. You could very well bust completely with those 2 2nds, a 3rd and Forsling too...

The only difference is we will find out much sooner what we have in these young assets.

You might be on to something here...trade Ron Delorme's draft picks before he has a chance to even draft 'em....of course that means you'll likely miss out on guys like Jamie Benn, Tyson Barrie, Milan Lucic, Brendan Gallagher and Shea Weber....but of course there was zero chance you'd ever have drafted them in the first place....And what's the point of waiting four years for a draft bust, when you can trade for 'em and wait only a year or two.

 

[MS]

That's exactly what I think Benning will do.

If he doesn't move vets, or recoup picks, then I will start to worry about 'the plan' going forward.

Replacing the scouting staff will take years. High level scouts usually aren't sitting around unemployed, nor do they jump from one organization to another very often.

This is such utter BS.

It isn't about hiring NHL scouts away from other NHL teams. Someone tied in like Benning (or Delorme or Crawford) theoretically should be would be meeting scouts at games all the time, networking, and have a pretty good grasp of what guys at lower levels (scouts for WHL teams, Hockey Canada) have really impressed them, seem to know their stuff, and have results at that level. And are ready for a promotion to an NHL job.

Assuming our scouts' prior lists for prior drafts are tracked (which they certainly are), I could look through them and figure out who should go and who should stay in a half hour. It shouldn't be hard.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I'll give this guy some leeway until after the draft and through July 1.

However, he's on very thin ice.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Assuming our scouts' prior lists for prior drafts are tracked (which they certainly are), I could look through them and figure out who should go and who should stay in a half hour. It shouldn't be hard.

You don't thinks Mike Gillis would have thought about this? The lists probably aren't black and white like you envision them. If it was that simple, I think you would have seen some major changes to the scouting staff early on in Gillis tenure.

Which of the major scouting agencies is head and shoulders above the rest over the last half dozen years? Can you come up with the right answer in half an hour?

 

[VanJack]

You don't thinks Mike Gillis would have thought about this? The lists probably aren't black and white like you envision them. If it was that simple, I think you would have seen some major changes to the scouting staff early on in Gillis tenure.

Which of the major scouting agencies is head and shoulders above the rest over the last half dozen years? Can you come up with the right answer in half an hour?

Sadly, we could have fired 'em all and just gone with Bob Mackenzie or the picks from Central Scouting and actually graded out ahead....think of all the travel costs and expenses the Aquaman would have saved!

 

[van22]

According to this poll by the Province: http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/05/04/the-fans-verdict-how-you-rate-the-canucks-season/

Voters were generally happy with Linden, Benning and Willie D. Sbisa is not among the first 3 players to be voted off the team nor was he the most disappointing this season. Miller/Lack is the preferred goalie tandem. Bo is the most popular player by a wide margin. Virtanen and Sven have been largely voted on the team.

 

[PM]

Hit on Weber.

Hit on keeping Edler over Garrison.

Your first two points are so hilariously wrong I'm not even going to talk to the rest of them. Weber was acquired by Gillis and your second statement is baloney. You could turn around your second statement and say he missed by keeping Bieksa over Garrison. Or Sbisa over Garrison. If you play around with words and ignore facts you can make any statement that supports your position.

 

[sting101]

...or he could be shark in a bowl of shark-fin soup....he's traded two seconds, two thirds and Forsling, and got back Dorsett, Vey, Baertshi, Pedan and Clendening.....other GM's are betting their former prospects are marginal busts because they got passed by others on their depth chart ....will be interesting to see which GM is a shark and which is a flounder.

And in the last 15 yrs the 2nd and 3rd rounds have yielded us Raymond, Edler and Connauton.

 

[MS]

You don't thinks Mike Gillis would have thought about this? The lists probably aren't black and white like you envision them. If it was that simple, I think you would have seen some major changes to the scouting staff early on in Gillis tenure.

Which of the major scouting agencies is head and shoulders above the rest over the last half dozen years? Can you come up with the right answer in half an hour?

Every scout should have a list for their league for each year. Those are then composed into a master list.

Our 2010 draft list was leaked. As a WHL follower, I know that our WHL scouts somehow didn't have either Brendan Gallagher or Mark Stone (2 of the 3 best players to come out of the WHL that year) even on their lists, and had Dylan McIlrath ahead of Nino Niederreiter. Given our lack of WHL success, I assume we see the same sort of thing every year for that league. Those scouts suck.

I'm pretty sure there are smart people in the organizations of Kelowna or Brandon or Edmonton or Victoria who could do a better job than these lumps.

And so on.

'A half hour' might be a stretch, but if I had access to our records I could tell you with pretty damn good certainty what and who needed changing after a day or two of evaluation.

 

[VanJack]

And in the last 15 yrs the 2nd and 3rd rounds have yielded us Raymond, Edler and Connauton.

You're right...and the only constant has been the scouting staff making those picks....might be time for a change?...You think?

 

[The Stig]

Well this can be brought to the Benning thread now. Closed.