Jim Benning Discussion -- Part II
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With Hutton now signed and Subban to follow, is it fair to re-balance the scales on Mike Gillis?..... Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Lack, Subban, Cassels, Hutton, and Jensen all drafted, and trades for Mathias, Kassian and Markstrom...Stanton and Weber decent pick-ups as well..guys like Fox, Archibald, Blomstrand and McNally still in the pipeline...MG gets routinely trashed on these boards, but that's not a bad haul.
With Hutton now signed and Subban to follow, is it fair to re-balance the scales on Mike Gillis?..... Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Lack, Subban, Cassels, Hutton, and Jensen all drafted, and trades for Mathias, Kassian and Markstrom...Stanton and Weber decent pick-ups as well..guys like Fox, Archibald, Blomstrand and McNally still in the pipeline...MG gets routinely trashed on these boards, but that's not a bad haul.
Certainly as players like Hutton progress and look closer to NHL viable prospects then of course my personal view of Gillis changes in accordance with that. That said, I am not sure I would put either Jensen or Gaunce in the "win" column yet as they are both still a ways away from being everyday NHLers, if they ever are.
But great news on Hutton and very excited to see how he performs at the AHL level!
With Hutton now signed and Subban to follow, is it fair to re-balance the scales on Mike Gillis?..... Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Lack, Subban, Cassels, Hutton, and Jensen all drafted, and trades for Mathias, Kassian and Markstrom...Stanton and Weber decent pick-ups as well..guys like Fox, Archibald, Blomstrand and McNally still in the pipeline...MG gets routinely trashed on these boards, but that's not a bad haul.
With 9 of those players never having played an NHL game, several never having played an AHL game and several of the others still making their way in the league (or minors) it may still be a little early. Heck, most all of your list that is in the NHL has been a healthy scratch this season and Lack spent much of the season sitting for 2-3 weeks at a time waiting for WD to give Miller a rest.
When it is time to balance the scales, I think you also get to include Tanev, first signed in May, 2010 and possibly the best of the Gillis amateur signings.
Shareefruck
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Gillis was always a great GM-- his only fault, a major one, and what deservedly got him fired, is mishandling the goaltending situation and his kneejerk reactions whiched caused him to break up a great group.With Hutton now signed and Subban to follow, is it fair to re-balance the scales on Mike Gillis?..... Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Lack, Subban, Cassels, Hutton, and Jensen all drafted, and trades for Mathias, Kassian and Markstrom...Stanton and Weber decent pick-ups as well..guys like Fox, Archibald, Blomstrand and McNally still in the pipeline...MG gets routinely trashed on these boards, but that's not a bad haul.
604
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I'd argue that ownership interfering with MGGM's decisions are what cost him...if rumors are to be believed.
yep
I absolutely refuse to believe Gillis was behind Tortorella being hired. Especially since John Stevens, rumoured to be a leading candidate, seemed like Gillis' actual pick.
604
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Agreed however if rumors are to be believed:
1) he wanted to sign the Sedins to lifetime contracts and was blocked by ownership;
2) he didn't want to sign Luongo to a lifetime contract but were told to do so by ownership;
3) he had Luongo traded by ownership didn't want to pay what it cost to trade Luongo at the time (prior to trading Schneider);
4) he didn't want to hire Torts but was forced to.
These items would lead you to believe that he would still have a job if it wasn't for ownership's decisions (note, this isn't meddling, this is them making decisions they are allowed to make as owners...just terrible decisions).
me2
Go ahead foot
I think this is unproven. Gillis had dealings with almost all of the GMs and deals with about 20. Like or dislike doesn't stop GMs getting things done, even if they hate each other there are assistants to do the deals.
those first two are basically the biggest complaint i have with gillis. where have you seen any of that?
Gillis' trust in the guys who scouted the Florida Panthers (Eric Crawford) and his failure to anticipate a recapture penalty really hurt. While Gillis' drafting wasn't very good, he did make a lot of changes to the way the Canucks scouted, changes that no other GM made.
A lot has been said about Gillis' relationship with other GMs, but that just means he was given no freebies. Neither has Benning, who seems to have consistently offered the best deal to get the player he wants.
And as much as some of us have felt Gillis' long-term contracts have hurt the team, look at what the market is paying now. Luongo's cap hit vs Miller's? Johnny Boychuk is going to make $6M next season. Garrison is paying top 4 minutes on a top team making far less. Perhaps Gillis shouldn't have given those NTCs as it made it hard to move some of the players, but except for Burrows and Garrison, it seems like Benning wants to keep a guy like Higgins and re-sign Matthias and Richardson.
A lot has been said about Gillis' relationship with other GMs, but that just means he was given no freebies. Neither has Benning, who seems to have consistently offered the best deal to get the player he wants.
And as much as some of us have felt Gillis' long-term contracts have hurt the team, look at what the market is paying now. Luongo's cap hit vs Miller's? Johnny Boychuk is going to make $6M next season. Garrison is paying top 4 minutes on a top team making far less. Perhaps Gillis shouldn't have given those NTCs as it made it hard to move some of the players, but except for Burrows and Garrison, it seems like Benning wants to keep a guy like Higgins and re-sign Matthias and Richardson.
i guess, sure, but that was basically the "brian burke wants to **** over the canucks" clause
Gillis left us with a roster filled with third liners and not enough depth at too many positions.
I like what Benning is doing to stack up the prospects at every position. In the future, it is highly unlikely any player will be gifted a position on the Canucks. They will have battle it out with other prospects for a shot.
The big question I have is whether we have a top five in the making. Do we have three forwards who will be a top scoring first line? Do we have that defensive pairing that pushes play forward and locks down the defensive zone?
Right behind the big question is another one about Benning, and Linden, having patience. I don't think Gillis did. Burke and Nonis certainly didn't. Does Benning have the patience to stick with a plan? If the plan is to draft players and develop them, then he has to stop firing draft picks out the door to shore up the current roster.
I understand the need to fill the gap in twenty-somethings that Gillis left. But, the constant movement of second and third round picks has hurt the club over the long haul and has to stop. Does Benning have the patience to keep his mitts off the trade gun trigger?
I like what Benning is doing to stack up the prospects at every position. In the future, it is highly unlikely any player will be gifted a position on the Canucks. They will have battle it out with other prospects for a shot.
The big question I have is whether we have a top five in the making. Do we have three forwards who will be a top scoring first line? Do we have that defensive pairing that pushes play forward and locks down the defensive zone?
Right behind the big question is another one about Benning, and Linden, having patience. I don't think Gillis did. Burke and Nonis certainly didn't. Does Benning have the patience to stick with a plan? If the plan is to draft players and develop them, then he has to stop firing draft picks out the door to shore up the current roster.
I understand the need to fill the gap in twenty-somethings that Gillis left. But, the constant movement of second and third round picks has hurt the club over the long haul and has to stop. Does Benning have the patience to keep his mitts off the trade gun trigger?
I don't think anyone can foresee that. That has never happened in any of the other sports where a rule was introduced that could punish contracts signed in a previous CBA. I am surprised that this retro penalty is even legal.
Anyway, MG has left us with a much brighter future than what was proclaimed. Seems like the 2012 and 2013 is starting to look better. If Jensen can finally screw on his head right and break into the team during camp next year, 2011 with Jensen and Corrado would look not bad.
cc
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Gillis's worst trade and acquisition was Ballard but otherwise he was a good GM. I didn't even mind how he handled the goalie situation. He ended up with some pretty decent returns when his hands were essentially tied. It was unfortunate that he had to hire the worst coach for the team.
His worst move wasn't trading for Ballard, it was keeping Ballard over Ehrhoff a year later when it was obvious Ballard wasn't working out, but probably still had a bit of trade value.
The goalie situation ended up being a disaster, but it was a result of a change in the CBA pushed for by another GM with a vendetta against our organization. Very odd circumstance. If the CBA stays constant, Luongo is traded fairly easily and Schneider is still the starter here.
Outside of strictly player moves, Gillis' biggest failure was not restructuring our amateur scouting staff quickly enough and gutting dogs like Delorme, believing that simply giving them better direction could solve our scouting problems. Sadly, based on reports, it seems Benning is drinking that same Kool-Aid from the same scouts.
I think it's easier said than done. Good scouts don't move between clubs, they usually a strong relationship with the GM/AGM or somebody up top and they are paid well enough where they rather stay in a club where they are happy. The only way aside from using personal relationship to pull scouts from other teams is to promote those from within who are actually good and oppressed by idiots (Delrome).
To restructure the scouting department, you have to look within to see where the problem is and that takes a min of 2-3 years to properly evaluate that assuming the organization didn't keep detailed history on who vouched on who.
It's not a coincidence that the restructure happened at 12-13. At 12-13, we could look back to see all the results from each scout for the 08-09 draft and gutted the ones that made bad decisions.
If one thing, we should all be scared as hell that Delrome is back in prominence again it seems.
Eddy Punch Clock
Jack Adams 2028
I'm still as bitter and confused about that being allowed as I ever was.
What's the opposite of a Grandfather clause?
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
I feel like if anyone takes it to court, the NHL will lose on that one but nobody will want to do that because you will be blacklisted.
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