Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 15-16 (Part VI)

[truck]

Stempniak would have. He had no other contract offers.

Potentially none at all. We have no reason to believe that the Jets tendered an offer.

 

[puck stoppa]

I answered your question. I said it was meaningless. Because it is.

No you didn't. I said list six guys in NJ better than Stemp. They don't have them. He wanted more opp and saw more opp there than here.

 

[Board Bard]

Half your posts are assumptions, hence HF Boards. Quit pretending otherwise.

Stemp said himself he wanted to play here. Not an assumption. He did not get a contract here and went to try out somewhere else without a contract. Also not an assumption.

He demanded top 6 minutes -- very large and absurd assumption.

 

[truck]

Half your posts are assumptions, hence HF Boards. Quit pretending otherwise.

I preface assumptions as such. I don't state them as fact.

 

[Board Bard]

No you didn't. I said list six guys in NJ better than Stemp. They don't have them. He wanted more opp and saw more opp there than here.

He only saw opportunity there after he knew he wouldn't be signed here. And the opportunity was a limited one -- a PTO. There's no way a player with an intact brain takes a PTO over a guranteed contract; they have different standards to board posters.

 

[Whileee]

Like I said before, Lawless was talking about the Jets, Chevy wasn't. Chevy never mentioned Stempniak, Tlusty or the Jets in his reply. He tried to avoid the subject with his strawman generalization, which he hoped would make people think he was talking about the Jets.

If Chevy ever tells you he has some land in Florida he wants to sell, you'd best start running.

It would have been unprofessional to mention players by name. Lawless didn't mention names, and neither did Chevy. However, Chevy clearly referred to veterans that were acquired by the Jets late last year who would have liked to play higher in the line-up. If you don't think he was referring to Stemp and Tlusty, then perhaps you could list the other vets that the Jets acquired who didn't play in the top 6 who left as UFAs.

Let's let others listen to the interview and they can decide for themselves. Okay?

 

[Board Bard]

Potentially none at all. We have no reason to believe that the Jets tendered an offer.

We have no reason to believe the Jets tendered an offer, but we have reason to believe the Jets did not tender him an offer -- from Stemp himself. We also have reason to believe no other team tendered him an offer, or a contract at least, since he went to NJ on a PTO.

 

[Board Bard]

It would have been unprofessional to mention players by name. Lawless didn't mention names, and neither did Chevy. However, Chevy clearly referred to veterans that were acquired by the Jets late last year who would have liked to play higher in the line-up. If you don't think he was referring to Stemp and Tlusty, then perhaps you could list the other vets that the Jets acquired who didn't play in the top 6 who left as UFAs.

Let's let others listen to the interview and they can decide for themselves. Okay?

First bold:

So it's not professional to name two players by name but it is professional to reveal the so-called reason why they weren't signed?

You want unprofessional? How about trying to snow people by raising the bogus "some players want to player higher in the lineup" canard?

Second bold:

No, he clearly did not reference the players the Jets acquired last year. He referenced "some players." He was trying to sucker you, and me, and everyone else. Too bad Lawless didn't call him on it and ask him specifically if Stempniak and Tlusty demanded higher roster spots. At that point you would have heard Chevy say he didn't want to get into "specifics" even though he just used the specifics of an inapplicable accusation in an attempt to implicitly besmirch two players.

 

[Duke749]

I don't think you guys are even talking about the same interview because I just listened to it and Whileee is correct that Chevy made a comment about the guys they acquired at the deadline last year wanting more ice time.

But I guess we can just keep saying it's only speculation and they're saying things just to avoid the reality... But discussing things like that doesn't really get you anywhere because there is very little to back it up.

 

[Hunter368]

If this organization had made major or significant strides forward in its first 5 years wouldn't it be painfully clear to all?

Thus there wouldn't be any need for 1000's of posts debating if any or any significant improvements had been made.

Just saying....

This leads me to believe, regardless of your personal opinion there seems to at best, less than significant improvement in 5 years.

My personal opinion there has been many mistakes (inaction can be a mistake), 2-3 big mistakes and some improvements.....via D&D mostly. Either way I couldn't conclusively conclude that there has been "significant improvement". Disappointing

This TD could help reverse some earlier mistakes and build towards the future. Crossroads time, think logically Chevy.....step up and make the tough decisions.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Guys like him and Mason Raymond when is same sitch know where they can get more ice time, theyre not dumb.

What?

 

[Whileee]

If this organization had made major or significant strides forward in its first 5 years wouldn't it be painfully clear to all?

Thus there wouldn't be any need for 1000's of posts debating if any or any significant improvements had been made.

Just saying....

This leads me to believe, regardless of your personal opinion there seems to at best, less than significant improvement in 5 years.

My personal opinion there has been many mistakes (inaction can be a mistake), 2-3 big mistakes and some improvements.....via D&D mostly. Either way I couldn't conclusively conclude that there has been "significant improvement". Disappointing

This TD could help reverse some earlier mistakes and build towards the future. Crossroads time, think logically Chevy.....step up and make the tough decisions.

I think the team is performing somewhat better than in the first few years, all things considered. I think that the prospect pool and organizational depth is much better than it was five years ago, though it's early for many of the drafted players to make their mark at the NHL level.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Regardless, I have consistently supported the decision to go with youth this year. The opportunity to get Ehlers into the top-9, and to have Copp and Armia start their NHL development will accelerate the Jets' overall progress. They'll be better players by the end of the season, and next season when any short-term vet will be long-gone.

Agree with this Whileee but if we start with the Jets that finished last season, subtract Slater, Tlusty, Frolik and Peluso we have made room for 4 rookies. Stemp is still here.

 

[BigZ65]

Stempniak and his agent begged publicly to return to the Jets. Hard to imagine a guy in his position dictating a role. Would be nice to hear some actual reasoning or just straight up that they made a decision from the general manager rather than spin and odd excuses that blame the departed players and their circumstances.

I've supported Chevy and understand the foundation building, but he's either clueless, paralyzed by risk aversion or constrained by ownership at the NHL level because his management of the NHL roster has been a complete joke.

 

[Hunter368]

I think the team is performing somewhat better than in the first few years, all things considered. I think that the prospect pool and organizational depth is much better than it was five years ago, though it's early for many of the drafted players to make their mark at the NHL level.

I don't disagree with any of that......but everything (including progress) must be kept in perspective vs time. One cannot say we made significant improvement (not saying you said this) without considering how much time we spent achieving the aforementioned improvements.

My post you quoted was partly about improvement, but also about the future, reversing mistakes and most importantly (In particularly for this thread) the trade deadline.

We need to realistically look at our playoff hopes, I think most would agree our chances are "poor" of achieving anything of importance. IMO making key decisions about the future and potentially avoiding any huge mistakes (bad contracts).....is much more important than pushing for a playoff spot that would very likely would end in 4-5 games even if we somehow were successful in our push.

Time to move on from Ladd, trade him. Depending on what we receive for offers for buff, we trade or sign him (if we can get the term to 6 years). If buff wants 8 years I would trade him.

I'm not suggesting tanking (ie trading all good players), I'm suggesting trading key players (Ladd, maybe buff) and players that can be replaced like Stuart, Thor, Pavs, etc.

Keep our other key players like Little, Wheeler, Mark, Ehlers, etc. Use all the picks/prospects we get to build towards the future.

 

[JetsFan815]

I listened to the interview again.... Lawless and Chevy were clearly talking about the veteran "depth" forwards that the Jets acquired last year, and Chevy clearly indicated that they wanted to play higher in the line-up even than they were able to with the Jets, even last season.

Anyone who wants to listen to the actual interview to make your own assessment can listen to it here.... http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/cheveldayoff-every-night-scoreboard-watching-in-tight-central-division-1.421508

Whilee I would be more than happy to take Chevy at his word- if he came out and unequivocally said that "Stempniak wanted a bigger role". I don't understand how one can listen to that interview and reach the conclusion "Stempniak wanted top 6 minutes and when he wasn't promised that, he walked". That's like if you are hanging out with your buddies in the woods having a few beers late at night when you see flashes of lights in the sky and following morning start telling everyone that that was proof that aliens visited you. His comments were classic weasel wording, probably not intentional as I doubt he feels the need to explain himself to HFBoards, but weasel words none the less

You seriously believe that Stempniak who was publicly and consistently asking to be resigned- a man who has been a bottom 6 player since his 2nd season and produced like a bottom 6 player, was a free agent numerous times and signed contracts at bottom 6 price, suddenly at the age of 32 decided to take the risk of leaving an offer on the table in hopes of becoming a top 6 player when other decent NHL'ers like Tlusty, Bergenheim, Glencross, Setogucci were unsigned and some of them remained unsigned? That argument requires one to take so many leaps of faith its ridiculous.

If Chevy comes out and unequivocally states that's what happened, I'll believe it. And it's not unprofessional to say that at all. It is done in the NHL all the time- here's one classy way to say it-

"We're huge fans of Stemp and that's why we acquired him in the first place, however as we talked about an extension it became clear that our long term goals did not align with what Lee wanted. With his performance this season Lee has shown himself to be a good top-6 player but for our team we already had key pieces signed for our top-6 and it became clear we would not be able to Lee what he wanted. Obviously we miss a player of the calibre of Stempniak but sometimes these kinds of things happen

And that's just me coming up with something in 5 minutes. I am sure a wordsmith like Chevy could come up with something much better if he really wanted

 

[surixon]

Whilee I would be more than happy to take Chevy at his word- if he came out and unequivocally said that "Stempniak wanted a bigger role". I don't understand how one can listen to that interview and reach the conclusion "Stempniak wanted top 6 minutes and when he wasn't promised that, he walked". That's like if you are hanging out with your buddies in the woods having a few beers late at night when you see flashes of lights in the sky and following morning start telling everyone that that was proof that aliens visited you. His comments were classic weasel wording, probably not intentional as I doubt he feels the need to explain himself to HFBoards, but weasel words none the less

You seriously believe that Stempniak who was publicly and consistently asking to be resigned- a man who has been a bottom 6 player since his 2nd season and produced like a bottom 6 player, was a free agent numerous times and signed contracts at bottom 6 price, suddenly at the age of 32 decided to take the risk of leaving an offer on the table in hopes of becoming a top 6 player when other decent NHL'ers like Tlusty, Bergenheim, Glencross, Setogucci were unsigned and some of them remained unsigned? That argument requires one to take so many leaps of faith its ridiculous.

If Chevy comes out and unequivocally states that's what happened, I'll believe it. And it's not unprofessional to say that at all. It is done in the NHL all the time- here's one classy way to say it-

"We're huge fans of Stemp and that's why we acquired him in the first place, however as we talked about an extension it became clear that our long term goals did not align with what Lee wanted. With his performance this season Lee has shown himself to be a good top-6 player but for our team we already had key pieces signed for our top-6 and it became clear we would not be able to Lee what he wanted. Obviously we miss a player of the calibre of Stempniak but sometimes these kinds of things happen

And that's just me coming up with something in 5 minutes. I am sure a wordsmith like Chevy could come up with something much better if he really wanted

Would this not somewhat be considered tampering since the player is under contract to another team. I get that people want direct answers on specific players but GM's have to be very guarded and careful in how they answer questions on players controlled by other teams.

 

[Whileee]

I don't disagree with any of that......but everything (including progress) must be kept in perspective vs time. One cannot say we made significant improvement (not saying you said this) without considering how much time we spent achieving the aforementioned improvements.

My post you quoted was partly about improvement, but also about the future, reversing mistakes and most importantly (In particularly for this thread) the trade deadline.

We need to realistically look at our playoff hopes, I think most would agree our chances are "poor" of achieving anything of importance. IMO making key decisions about the future and potentially avoiding any huge mistakes (bad contracts).....is much more important than pushing for a playoff spot that would very likely would end in 4-5 games even if we somehow were successful in our push.

Time to move on from Ladd, trade him. Depending on what we receive for offers for buff, we trade or sign him (if we can get the term to 6 years). If buff wants 8 years I would trade him.

I'm not suggesting tanking (ie trading all good players), I'm suggesting trading key players (Ladd, maybe buff) and players that can be replaced like Stuart, Thor, Pavs, etc.

Keep our other key players like Little, Wheeler, Mark, Ehlers, etc. Use all the picks/prospects we get to build towards the future.

I think they've been treading water with the original core, because it isn't quite good enough. It takes time to build up a strong system through the draft. Our first draft picks are only just now making an impact in the NHL, and most of the players from the important 2013 draft are still developing in the minors.

 

[ps241]

It would have been unprofessional to mention players by name. Lawless didn't mention names, and neither did Chevy. However, Chevy clearly referred to veterans that were acquired by the Jets late last year who would have liked to play higher in the line-up. If you don't think he was referring to Stemp and Tlusty, then perhaps you could list the other vets that the Jets acquired who didn't play in the top 6 who left as UFAs.

Let's let others listen to the interview and they can decide for themselves. Okay?

Ok ok

So I listened to it very carefully and I think you might be right. However, then I played the same interview backwards (like an album from the 70's) and in that version backwards Chevy told Stemper and Jiri that "the only guy moving up in the line up next year is Thorburn so they can both pound sand"

hand to god

 

[blues10]

And that's just me coming up with something in 5 minutes. I am sure a wordsmith like Chevy could come up with something much better if he really wanted

It's a process! Everything Chevy does is a process, putting on his shoes, gassing up his car all processes. Picking up a coffee, a process, getting on a plane, a process. Chevy's favourite food is probably a processed meat sandwich with processed cheese. They should start serving them up at MTSC "The Chevy"

 

[Whileee]

Whilee I would be more than happy to take Chevy at his word- if he came out and unequivocally said that "Stempniak wanted a bigger role". I don't understand how one can listen to that interview and reach the conclusion "Stempniak wanted top 6 minutes and when he wasn't promised that, he walked". That's like if you are hanging out with your buddies in the woods having a few beers late at night when you see flashes of lights in the sky and following morning start telling everyone that that was proof that aliens visited you. His comments were classic weasel wording, probably not intentional as I doubt he feels the need to explain himself to HFBoards, but weasel words none the less

You seriously believe that Stempniak who was publicly and consistently asking to be resigned- a man who has been a bottom 6 player since his 2nd season and produced like a bottom 6 player, was a free agent numerous times and signed contracts at bottom 6 price, suddenly at the age of 32 decided to take the risk of leaving an offer on the table in hopes of becoming a top 6 player when other decent NHL'ers like Tlusty, Bergenheim, Glencross, Setogucci were unsigned and some of them remained unsigned? That argument requires one to take so many leaps of faith its ridiculous.

If Chevy comes out and unequivocally states that's what happened, I'll believe it. And it's not unprofessional to say that at all. It is done in the NHL all the time- here's one classy way to say it-

"We're huge fans of Stemp and that's why we acquired him in the first place, however as we talked about an extension it became clear that our long term goals did not align with what Lee wanted. With his performance this season Lee has shown himself to be a good top-6 player but for our team we already had key pieces signed for our top-6 and it became clear we would not be able to Lee what he wanted. Obviously we miss a player of the calibre of Stempniak but sometimes these kinds of things happen

And that's just me coming up with something in 5 minutes. I am sure a wordsmith like Chevy could come up with something much better if he really wanted

Unrealistic and unnecessary. The Jets wanted to go with youth, and didn't put priority on Stempniak (neither did 29 other teams). Not sure why there has to be a federal case made about it.

If you expect a GM to telegraph all their plans or be completely transparent about their decisions, you'll be disappointed, even if Chevy is replaced. NHL GMs just don't reveal much.

 

[Duke749]

I think they've been treading water with the original core, because it isn't quite good enough. It takes time to build up a strong system through the draft. Our first draft picks are only just now making an impact in the NHL, and most of the players from the important 2013 draft are still developing in the minors.

Agreed.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

We're nearing the post limit for this thread. New thread is here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2011613