Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 15-16 (Part V)

[Jet]

Continue here!

I'll start by saying I am somewhat surprised people are so eager to give away Myers. He has struggled sure but he's also shown us glimpses of what he might still become, which is pretty special.

I think he's better in his own end than Byfuglien, and if he can learn to use his skill more he can turn into a very large, pretty great all round defenseman. I wouldn't give up on him just yet.

Of course, every player is available for the right price.

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[lablite47]

:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
I haven't liked their game that much, but it's hard to get a good read because they have had some really bad defensive breakdowns that seem to come in bunches. Once they get down 2 or 3, it's hard to assess their play.

I think it's still a bit early.
I hate their PK. It looks like Noel's.

Originally Posted by Mortimer Sneed
It is too passive, just collapsing into the goal. Oddly it seems to be better when Stuart takes a penalty. The goal of the aggressive PK is not to score SH. Will always take that of course but the goal is just to get the puck out of our D zone. Then try to prevent re-entry. It seems that even when we do manage to get the puck out the PP is getting back in and set up too easily. I wish our PP could do that. We seem to do well enough once we get control in the O zone but spend far too much of our PP time just trying to get in.

I am wondering if Maurice's new systems might actually be OK once we learn to execute them better. The wings are not doing a good enough job covering for the pinching D but that is not a new concept to players at this level. Shouldn't they have learned that in Pee-Wee? These guys are ALL pros (even Peluso). How long should it take them to adapt to a few minor adjustments to the systems? They know this game inside out and backwards. Yeah yeah, I know ... that's how they've playing too.

The same with integrating 4 new forwards. Yes that is 1/3 of the starters. They are all talented and very highly trained hockey players even Copp who came to the game late. It shouldn't take too long for them to fit in and also from the other side for their PRO teammates to integrate them.

I am left with the conclusion that Maurice's new system is not working. Fix it Paul!

Isn't it the Defensive coach's (Charly Huddy) job to orchestrate the PK? Isn't he the common denominator here? Shouldn't we expect him to fix the PK and not PM?

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Isn't it the Defensive coach's (Charly Huddy) job to orchestrate the PK? Isn't he the common denominator here? Shouldn't we expect him to fix the PK and not PM?

This particular discussion topic is OT for the Trade thread.

 

[truck]

Continue here!

I'll start by saying I am somewhat surprised people are so eager to give away Myers. He has struggled sure but he's also shown us glimpses of what he might still become, which is pretty special.

I think he's better in his own end than Byfuglien, and if he can learn to use his skill more he can turn into a very large, pretty great all round defenseman. I wouldn't give up on him just yet.

Of course, every player is available for the right price.

Being good in his own zone would be more meaningful if he wasn't often a full zone behind the puck carrier.

I am not eager to see him go, but there is still some big risk with him. He was horrible his last couple years in Buffalo and he's been the same here this season.

Sure there is upside and he remains pre-prime based on historical comparables, but you gotta give to get and I would move him in an instant for Duchene.

 

[allan5oh]

I think this team needs a shakeup trade. Like yesterday.

 

[truck]

I think this team needs a shakeup trade. Like yesterday.

I'd lean towards a shake-up benching first.

Throw Myers, Stu or Trouba in the press box for a game. They've all earned consideration and that should shake up the room.

If they are making a trade, I'd prefer it be focused on the long term good with Ladd or Buff rather than a short term shake up.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Continue here!

I'll start by saying I am somewhat surprised people are so eager to give away Myers. He has struggled sure but he's also shown us glimpses of what he might still become, which is pretty special.

I think he's better in his own end than Byfuglien, and if he can learn to use his skill more he can turn into a very large, pretty great all round defenseman. I wouldn't give up on him just yet.

Of course, every player is available for the right price.

A person suggesting trading a player is not implying having given up on him. He is indicating that he likes the return better. Duchene for Myers, of course. Doesn't mean I don't like Myers.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Isn't it the Defensive coach's (Charly Huddy) job to orchestrate the PK? Isn't he the common denominator here? Shouldn't we expect him to fix the PK and not PM?

Yes, but PM is the head coach. Our PK seems to change from time to time. It works well, then they change it. It is played differently with different personnel on the ice. Why is that?

 

[allan5oh]

The PK is not dramatically different from the Claude Noel days. The forecheck is exactly the same. In zone is more aggressive at times, but the offense certainly is more aggressive.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd lean towards a shake-up benching first.

Throw Myers, Stu or Trouba in the press box for a game. They've all earned consideration and that should shake up the room.

If they are making a trade, I'd prefer it be focused on the long term good with Ladd or Buff rather than a short term shake up.

Thought we might have that today when I heard Pardy was in but benching Chiarot isn't much of a shake-up. Pardy in Stu out would have shaken me up. In a good way.

I still want to see Stu traded but i don't think PM goes for that. Bad as he is I think he is getting worse and we still have him for 2 more years after this one.

 

[JetsFan815]

I think the knee-jerk posts by some calling for Ladd/Buff to be traded are only going to make things worse. Their value has been hurt so much by not trading them at the draft that we'll be lucky to get a 1st round pick at this point let alone a prospect and a roster player. I think our best play is to resign Buff/Ladd for whatever they are asking and try not to give them a NTC so we have the option of trading them. Not getting good value out of Ladd Buff will set the franchise back 4-5 years easily.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the knee-jerk posts by some calling for Ladd/Buff to be traded are only going to make things worse. Their value has been hurt so much by not trading them at the draft that we'll be lucky to get a 1st round pick at this point let alone a prospect and a roster player. I think our best play is to resign Buff/Ladd for whatever they are asking and try not to give them a NTC so we have the option of trading them. Not getting good value out of Ladd Buff will set the franchise back 4-5 years easily.

You think what we say here actually affects anytbing in reality? It might affect what fans of other teams will offer us. They are invariably wildly too much or too little depending on your POV anyway.

 

[jetsforever]

I'm finally starting to think that Ladd doesn't want to re-sign here. If what was said before was true, that he and management were almost in agreement, then he should have signed by now. I think if it was going to happen then one of the sides would have caved before letting it drag on into the season.

 

[Whileee]

I think the knee-jerk posts by some calling for Ladd/Buff to be traded are only going to make things worse. Their value has been hurt so much by not trading them at the draft that we'll be lucky to get a 1st round pick at this point let alone a prospect and a roster player. I think our best play is to resign Buff/Ladd for whatever they are asking and try not to give them a NTC so we have the option of trading them. Not getting good value out of Ladd Buff will set the franchise back 4-5 years easily.

Trade value for Ladd and Buff is not likely much different now than at the draft. In fact, teams that didn't have cap space to take on Buff or Ladd are more likely to be able to trade for them closer to the trade deadline.

The draft is a terrible time to trade a player for a pick, because picks are greatly over-valued then. Historical precedent shows that top players like Ladd and Buff will yield a lot during the season or at the trade deadline - a 1st round pick is just a starting point for players of that caliber.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm finally starting to think that Ladd doesn't want to re-sign here. If what was said before was true, that he and management were almost in agreement, then he should have signed by now. I think if it was going to happen then one of the sides would have caved before letting it drag on into the season.

Then why would you assume that Ladd must be the one to cave? If you are referring to Lawless's report they were still 700k apart, more than 10% of his ask or 12% of Chevy's offer. I expected them to have met somewhere in between by now but it takes 2 to agree not 1.

 

[Bob E]

Trade value for Ladd and Buff is not likely much different now than at the draft. In fact, teams that didn't have cap space to take on Buff or Ladd are more likely to be able to trade for them closer to the trade deadline.

The draft is a terrible time to trade a player for a pick, because picks are greatly over-valued then. Historical precedent shows that top players like Ladd and Buff will yield a lot during the season or at the trade deadline - a 1st round pick is just a starting point for players of that caliber.

Agree, Whileee.

 

[Duke749]

Trade value for Ladd and Buff is not likely much different now than at the draft. In fact, teams that didn't have cap space to take on Buff or Ladd are more likely to be able to trade for them closer to the trade deadline.

The draft is a terrible time to trade a player for a pick, because picks are greatly over-valued then. Historical precedent shows that top players like Ladd and Buff will yield a lot during the season or at the trade deadline - a 1st round pick is just a starting point for players of that caliber.

Yep. And that's if we want a mid to late 1st. Another option is just make that 1st a prospect that's one or two years ahead in development than a pick. A prospect we like, like when we got Armia and Lemieux.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

In what world is Myers better than Byfuglien in the defensive zone? Certainly not this one.

 

[JetsFan815]

You think what we say here actually affects anytbing in reality? It might affect what fans of other teams will offer us. They are invariably wildly too much or too little depending on your POV anyway.

Sometimes I feel guys on TSN 1290 read this board and get their discussion topics from here...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sometimes I feel guys on TSN 1290 read this board and get their discussion topics from here...

Wouldn't surprise me. I don't think those Bozo's have a lot of influence on the 30 GMs either.

 

[JetsFan815]

Trade value for Ladd and Buff is not likely much different now than at the draft. In fact, teams that didn't have cap space to take on Buff or Ladd are more likely to be able to trade for them closer to the trade deadline.

The draft is a terrible time to trade a player for a pick, because picks are greatly over-valued then. Historical precedent shows that top players like Ladd and Buff will yield a lot during the season or at the trade deadline - a 1st round pick is just a starting point for players of that caliber.

Trade value for Buff/Ladd was highest at the beginning or end of last season. Their trade value is much worse post free-agency because teams are locked in on the cap and have already filled holes and will be less desperate. Great trades that bring in good value to the selling team are made at the draft all time.

No team is gonna give us the value for Buff/Ladd as 4 month rentals that they would have with 1-2 years on their contact. If they weren't part of the plan they should have been traded at the beginning of last season (it's not like their contract situation is a surprise). That window is now blown and the best way to salvage it is to resign. I will throw up if we trade Buff for Sbisa, Gauthier and a 2nd, a package like that is what teams will likely offer at the deadline. Far cry from getting Brent Burns esque (or even better than that) value that many of us expected for Buff.

 

[Snot Rocket]

Continue here!

I'll start by saying I am somewhat surprised people are so eager to give away Myers. He has struggled sure but he's also shown us glimpses of what he might still become, which is pretty special.

I think he's better in his own end than Byfuglien, and if he can learn to use his skill more he can turn into a very large, pretty great all round defenseman. I wouldn't give up on him just yet.

Of course, every player is available for the right price.

You cannot tell me you're surprised by that.
We win a couple, plan the parade. We lose a couple, trade everyone, fire everyone.

 

[sully1410]

You cannot tell me you're surprised by that.
We win a couple, plan the parade. We lose a couple, trade everyone, fire everyone.

It's not a couple of games, to me its been the whole season. They just have not been as good as last season. Most of the games we won early on were based on goaltending and that has all but dried up now. The team, in general has just been...off. I hope it corrects it self and we are away to the races, but its hard to think like that after the whole season has been shaky at best and we just lost six in a row.

 

[mcpw]

The Dredger said Enstrom is available and we're looking for a top6 forward.

Meltdown in 3...2...1...

 

[ythelastman82]

How do you trade a player with a NMC?

This would assume that Toby wants out then.