Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part X

[almostawake]

...if it was "vitally important", don't you think Chevy would have tried to extract more "today" talent from the Sabres instead of the 2 prospects and a pick from the Sabres. I'm pretty sure that the Sabres would have loved to give up roster players instead of the futures, but Chevy insisted on the futures. That doesn't seem like a GM that has switched strategies and is desperate enough to give up important futures to make the playoffs this year. He wants to build a team that makes the playoffs every year, if possible.

Or maybe he figured he'd be better off adding more assets to give him more to play with at the deadline to get the guys he wants.

The reality is there isn't much on the Sabres in the way of 'today' talent that doesn't significantly encumber the cap going forward. Stafford was clearly the best rental on the Sabre's and the Jets got him. Outside of that you're looking at Chris Stewart, Torrey Mitchell, and Patrick Kaleta.

The prospect depth the Jets added in the Buffalo trade is what is going to let them spend assets at the deadline.

 

[pucka lucka]

A little bit disingenuous IMO. Maybe in today's NHL trades are getting more and more difficult to execute? This time of year is like GM's playing poker.

Here's a quote from Chiarelli


“It’s just hard to make a trade,†Chiarelli said. “It doesn’t just happen. It doesn’t happen like that. You need two teams that are willing to exchange ideas, then consummate a trade."

Ok, so you give him an excuse, so if he can't make trades because, OMG so hard, then why keep BS'ing about the playoffs? I am not just talking about this trade deadline. Chevy doesn't seem committed in either direction. I've been pretty damn consistent with this view.

 

[pucka lucka]

Chevy just pulled off one of the biggest trades in the NHL over the past several years, but yeah, other than that he's doing pretty much nothing....

Yeah, because the Kane trade wasn't forced by the player, most of what we got was futures. I am not going to play games in a back in forth on this. We are essentially up a Stafford, down a Kane and swapped ~ dmen

 

[Romang67]

Yeah, because the Kane trade wasn't forced by the player, most of what we got was futures. I am not going to play games in a back in forth on this. We are essentially up a Stafford, down a Kane and swapped ~ dmen

Hm? We were already down a Kane this season.

 

[puck stoppa]

Yeah, because the Kane trade wasn't forced by the player, most of what we got was futures. I am not going to play games in a back in forth on this. We are essentially up a Stafford, down a Kane and swapped ~ dmen

Myers will be the better dman. And I'm not saying stafford is better than Kane but his production has been good so far, he's good on the pp, and is more versatile moving up and down the lineup. If we retain stafford this trade will be a huge win.
Edit: and Myers has six points and has played well too.

 

[almostawake]

Yeah, because the Kane trade wasn't forced by the player, most of what we got was futures. I am not going to play games in a back in forth on this. We are essentially up a Stafford, down a Kane and swapped ~ dmen

The Jets upgraded Bogosian and acquired a rental to replace the injured Kane.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

I think chevy's mindset needs to be pretty conservative...he cannot start throwing quality draft picks or prospects around for 6 weeks of daniel Winnik. As much as it would suck to miss the playoffs this year he cannot panic.

There is a big youth wave coming soon and it would be very foolish to undermine it to get into the show only to be swept by Anaheim.

If anything, jets should maybe take a flier on a goalie and hope he turns into Devan Dubnyk...

The most I would give up would be Postma and a third rounder..no idea what you could get for that...

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

I used to see the Kane trade as:

Kane >> Stafford, Armia, Lemieux, 1st
Bogosian < Myers

Instead, I try and look at it now as:

Kane = Myers
Bogosian =< Stafford, Armia, Lemieux, 1st

 

[pucka lucka]

The Jets upgraded Bogosian and acquired a rental to replace the injured Kane.

If Stafford was 2 years younger and had any term left, I'd have opinion on this deal. I don't even dislike it, but it's turning us into a playoff team this year.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

CLAIM BRYZGALOV

I mean it.

http://www.tsn.ca/sunday-s-ice-chips-ducks-place-g-bryzgalov-on-waivers-1.213500

 

[puck stoppa]

Yeah, because the Kane trade wasn't forced by the player, most of what we got was futures. I am not going to play games in a back in forth on this. We are essentially up a Stafford, down a Kane and swapped ~ dmen

CLAIM BRYZGALOV

I mean it.

http://www.tsn.ca/sunday-s-ice-chips-ducks-place-g-bryzgalov-on-waivers-1.213500

Forget it, we have no parks!

 

[pucka lucka]

Hm? We were already down a Kane this season.

Yes I know this, but were we really? Kane only opted for surgery after some internal blowup. He was obviously injured, but the timing is suspect.

Also, the poster i was responding to has been implying we lost Kane in the way did many times previously.

 

[Boreal]

If we could dump Pavelec, I'd happily give Bryz a look. If nothing else, the comedic relief would be welcome as we tumble out of the playoff picture. Our net-minding is atrocious as is.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Ok, so you give him an excuse, so if he can't make trades because, OMG so hard, then why keep BS'ing about the playoffs? I am not just talking about this trade deadline. Chevy doesn't seem committed in either direction. I've been pretty damn consistent with this view.

What BSing? Do you think he wants to miss the playoffs intentionally? Seriously?

By all accounts he is one of the most active GM's ahead of the deadline. Trades just aren't as easy as you make them out to be.

 

[cbcwpg]

CLAIM BRYZGALOV

I mean it.

http://www.tsn.ca/sunday-s-ice-chips-ducks-place-g-bryzgalov-on-waivers-1.213500

Only if we knew we could dump Pavs.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

 

[pucka lucka]

What BSing? Do you think he wants to miss the playoffs intentionally? Seriously?

By all accounts he is one of the most active GM's ahead of the deadline. Trades just aren't as easy as you make them out to be.

When did I make out how hard or easy trades are? Quit trying to characterize me please.

 

[StronGeer]

CLAIM BRYZGALOV

I mean it.

http://www.tsn.ca/sunday-s-ice-chips-ducks-place-g-bryzgalov-on-waivers-1.213500

No! Look at Max's graph!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Seems like war on ice might have a capgeek replacement in time for trade deadline day.

@war_on_ice: Since it's a hot topic today: both our group and @theninjagreg are working on CapGeek replacements.

@war_on_ice: We are of course all balancing the issues of speed and accuracy before we launch officially.

@war_on_ice: But I think we can commit to having most of our features up before Thursday.

Good news. Spotrac is OK as far as it goes but it is not good enough to replace Capgeek. I have found outright errors in War-on-ice data. I would prefer them to improve their Extraskater replacement first but I will be happy with any improvement we get.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

a lot can change between now and the deadline if this slide continues maybe we turn into sellers and flip frolik and Stafford at the deadline?

We only have 3 more games before the deadline. It is possible we are out of our PO spot by then but not by enough to turn into sellers.

My outlook is souring game by game. I am not going to turn into a tanker but at least part of me wishes we would sell. I guess it comes down to wanting Chevy to jump one way or the other. Hurry up and get us enough help to make a difference or else sell and get better in the future. I am afraid Chevy is going to stay the conservative course though.

I would like him to pick up both Tlusty and Calvert but I don't know if that would be enough without goaltending help.

Somebody (Pavelec, was that you?) kidnapped Michael Clutchinson over the ASB and replaced him with a pavelecian lookalike.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sorry Mr. Snerrd, but that is not very accurate. Was it not Cam Ward who was invited to the Team Canada Olympic camp, as a potential top 2/3 goalie in the nation, not Bernier, Reimer, or any other of the goalies we want to trade for. Statistically. boasting a .913 save % and 2.39 GAA on a terrible Canes team puts him closer to Hutch numbers than Pav's numbers...Then you ignored the premise of my whole dissertation, which was that we have a window that is this year and next year to win...Our winners and leaders, Ladd, Buff and Frolik could all be gone in this time. Adding a winner, who would easily integrate into our dressing room, at a position which would inspire confidence in our entire team's play (does anyone on these boards think that Pavs inspires confidence in his teammates letting in stinkers, and struggling with rebound control?) reverberates. Really trading for Ward would cost us one year of an inflated salary (which we could probably get the Canes to eat $1 million out of for next year, just to get him off the books), but is there a more important position to invest in? NO. One year with a veteran winning goalie, as we develop our future (Helleybuck and Comrie) to replace him seems like good management. Does anyone see Pavs value appreciating? His extra year of contract will also impede that internal development as I can not see us having Helleybuck and Comrie in the minors for 2 consecutive years. Even next year, it is conceivable that one is loaned to another team, just to ensure playing time...Unless we really want to go with 2 raw goalies to inspire our vets to re-sign here, which was the premise of my whole discourse.

You can say that Rask is not worth Burmi, that is your entitled opinion, but he is a 2 way forward, with junior/AHL/NHL development, who has 5 less points than so called stars (Skinner and Tlusty) on the Canes. 3rd line, 2 way forward, which is likely all Burmi will ever be, so I say apples and oranges. Difference: Rask can contribute this year.

If you think Mc Clement is not a better centre than Slater, you are mistaken. He centred a good 3rd line in St. Louis for many years. Key PKer. Also has that intangible that is missing on this team: playoff experience. That's how I see it, anyways.

I agree with the bolded part. That's all.

Ward has bounced back somewhat this year from poor a couple of years ago to really horrible last year. I couldn't care less about an Olympic tryout invite, please. He is extremely expensive for 1 year and isn't a solution to anything. It seems to me you are remembering both him and McClement as they were 5 years ago. Sorry, neither one is any improvement over what we have and not worth the effort of the phone calls. Rask is not horrible. He is young and in just his 1st NHL season. He is doing reasonable well but he has never excelled at any lower level so there is no reason to expect much from him. We have his equal in St John's now.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If he's playing well. If he's playing how he did the last month or so he was regularly in the lineup, he might upgrade someone's AHL bottom pairing.

I don't think he was nearly that bad and it was only a few poor games. Maurice apparently agrees with you though.

 

[jetsforever]

CLAIM BRYZGALOV

I mean it.

http://www.tsn.ca/sunday-s-ice-chips-ducks-place-g-bryzgalov-on-waivers-1.213500

I laughed, then realised you were serious, then realised I agree
Let's run with 3 goalies for a while

 

[StronGeer]

I laughed, then realised you were serious, then realised I agree
Let's run with 3 goalies for a while

Seriously the worst idea ever.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

IMO I think the organization sees it as extremely important to make the playoffs this season. In many ways we are at a watershed point for the team. When we first got the team the core group primarily ranged from age 23-26 yo, right at the start of their primes, going into next season they will be 27-30 yo, well into their primes and have never been to the playoffs (assuming we don't make it this season). At the same time we will have to make a choice to double down on them with Ladd and Buff's pending UFA status. It is a lot easier to make that choice and sell that choice if you have at least started to have success with the group.

I also believe the organization would really like to be able to generate a playoff frenzy and the additional revenues, good will and buzz that brings to the community. Rather then just another lost season.

I think they see the POs as extremely important every season but they have a game-plan. I think a crucial part of that plan is to avoid being pressured to make short-term decisions.

I think Chevy is trying to walk the line of competing today and continuing to stock pile for the future and believe he did a really good job. The conservative thing to do would have been to hold onto Kane until the draft run up and have all 29 teams in play. By listening to Murray's interviews Chevy was the one that pushed the trade to blockbuster status. Chevy needed to at least replace Kane and Bogo in the roster. Immediate net from the trade strengthened the team for this season. Stafford, Myers and potentially Armia Vs. Bogo (Kane was already done for the season).

But I also saw it as a 2 part strategy. By stock piling a former 1st round pick (Armia) a very high 2nd round pick (Lemeiux) and another 1st round pick he basically doubled the high end talent he acquired through the last couple drafts.

MP's injury has thrown a bit of a wrench into things. But I have a feeling Chevy will be more willing to translate some of his other assets to current players since he was able to jump the development process forward with the Buffalo trade.

I think continuing to walk that line means they won't give up significant assets now in a push for the POs this year.

Well, let's see. You might be right.

I just hope that he doesn't trade either his 2nd or Burmi for a rental. I think that would be really bad asset management considering that Burmi could likely be signed and help this team for the next few years, and this is supposed to be an excellent draft with depth of good prospects into the third round.

History has shown that teams really overpay for short-term rentals, and usually it isn't worth the cost.

The situation with Kane came at a terrible time, and was compounded by Perreault's injury, but I don't think it is necessarily a good idea to take desperate measures to respond to that challenge.

Not trading those assets at this time does not contradict KB's point that POs are important. It just draws a line where they won't go for short-term help.

I think we both agree on getting value for your assets. And I don't see Chevy being the type to make a desperate move. Maybe we make a move that appears like a rental, but Chevy feels the player has a future with the team. Take Winnik, it was easy to see from lat night's game the value he would bring to our bottom 6 down the stretch. Now lets say Chevy moves the rights to Burmi or a 2nd for him. Looks like a pure rental, but apparently Chevy was close to signing Winnik last off season and Winnik decided to go with Toronto. Doesn't mean they weren't close to an agreement and it wasn't very amicable. Maybe Chevy feels he can ink him to a new contract and make him a permanent member of the team. Just spit balling, but IMO Chevy will try to target players he sees having a future with the team. Sure there is some risk, but making the playoffs is worth millions in additional revenue for his employer.

I think you could take last summer's rejection by Winnik either the way you describe or the exact opposite. We don't know what Chevy's offer was. He may have offered more money, even term and been turned down. Even if Chevy had high hopes of signing him I don't think Winnik is worth more than a 3rd. I might be overvaluing our 2nd but even then I don't think I would give up Burmi for him at this point unless Winnik was already signed to a good contract.

I think a big question right now is whether or not a couple of rental wingers can make the difference. If we were to pick up a 2nd line and a 3rd line winger would we make the POs with our goaltending? If Hutch can rebound will we make the POs without those rentals? I don't know myself. I wonder what Chevy thinks about those 2 questions?