It did. Better GF% or CF% than Jets current fourth line... but Drouin is also Drouin
Drouin's good, but he's no Ehlers....
Jets 4th line once again playing the least minutes in the NHL
- Thread starter Arthur Fonzarelli
- Start date
Drouin's good, but he's no Ehlers....
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
- Jun 10, 2014
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I am assuming that Peluso was in against some heavy teams for his hitting. Not saying I like it but that appears to be what has happened. His first game he was bad, as expected. Then the next couple he actually played fairly well, at least by the standards we expect from Peluso.
That said using him as an injury replacement? Really? What the 1234 did we put the Moose in Winnipeg for? What happened to Copp? Maybe there was no time to get anyone else.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
My favourite part is some saying they're playing "low minutes". No it's absolute rock bottom - no one is worse.
It's like if you were talking to an Oilers fan and they said, "yeah I guess we've been a little poor the past few years."
It's like if you were talking to an Oilers fan and they said, "yeah I guess we've been a little poor the past few years."
Past was the past: this is now. Two rookies gaining experience - I'm willing to give it time to see if the TOI comes up during the season. S'all I'm saying.
If it doesn't, then yes: it's a return to our crappy, low TOI 4th line strategy. The rest of your post is insulting, TBH. Discuss the points made, not the posters. Resorting to ad-hominems is a poor debate tactic.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
Well yeah I watch the NHL, other teams do it. Yet we can't?
How many minutes did Scheifele play as a rookie? Trouba? Chiarot? Ehlers? Etc. Etc. Etc.
So is it because they're rookies? When other teams play rookies fourth line or otherwise for more minutes and we ourselves play rookies for more minutes (hell there's posts wanting Petan to play more minutes, so there you go) other than the ones on the fourth line.
Or is it because they're on the fourth line and we have a history of playing the fourth the least of every other team in the league?
I wonder.
Or is it because there are TWO raw rookies on the 4th line.
I wonder, right back at you.
For me, I'm willing to give it more time - as I stated, it's quite possible that the line continues to get crap TOI, leading to too much TOI for the top 3 lines. We'll see. It's early in their development.
I wonder, right back at you.
For me, I'm willing to give it more time - as I stated, it's quite possible that the line continues to get crap TOI, leading to too much TOI for the top 3 lines. We'll see. It's early in their development.
I know we love all of our prospects, but IMO there's no comparing Petan and Copp with the guys you mentioned. They are in different tiers in terms of professional hockey talent and skill. Chiarot was also a veteran pro by the time he came up last season.
This is what I think. If it doesn't happen, then yes: it's a repeat of our crappy 4th line, but I'm not willing to attribute it to simple stubbornness in wanting to kill our top 9 with too much TOI yet.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
Or is it because there are TWO raw rookies on the 4th line.
I wonder, right back at you.
For me, I'm willing to give it more time - as I stated, it's quite possible that the line continues to get crap TOI, leading to too much TOI for the top 3 lines. We'll see. It's early in their development.
I wasn't intending to debate or attack. Genuinely funny.
- Jun 10, 2014
- 57,426
- 29,282
Agree that all rookies are not equal, or the same. I don't agree that Petan doesn't compare favourably with those others mentioned but he is not being used in a role that fits his skill set particularly well.
I wonder what the 4th line TOI would look like if Raffl had started the season there? Not aiming a shot at Petan. More the opposite. Raffl's game might suit the 4th line better and although he is an NHL rookie he is a highly experienced pro.
MrBoJangelz71
Registered User
- Jan 14, 2014
- 4,969
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If other teams jumped off of a bridge, should we..........
You can't equate more ice time for a line based off of one player's existence on that line. Petan will get more ice time, but it will not come from regular minutes on the 4rth line. He will either move up, earn more PP time and maybe get PK duties.
We want our 4rth to manage 10 to 12 a night, its a process. If they can handle 6 to 8 minutes in October/November, great. As they show consistency and gain confidence in their development, up it to 9 minutes in December, work them into 10 minutes by the All Star break.
Its not as important that they are putting up 10 to 12 minutes now as it will be post all star break, when the games get heavier and more taxing. Maurice does not want to sink or swim them, he does not have to. He has structure and depth that he can ease them in properly.
Many teams that throw out rookies and immediately give them top end minutes, are either tanking or they have older more developed rookies. Neither Petan or Copp fit into those scenarios.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
If other teams jumped off of a bridge, should we..........
You can't equate more ice time for a line based off of one player's existence on that line. Petan will get more ice time, but it will not come from regular minutes on the 4rth line. He will either move up, earn more PP time and maybe get PK duties.
We want our 4rth to manage 10 to 12 a night, its a process. If they can handle 6 to 8 minutes in October/November, great. As they show consistency and gain confidence in their development, up it to 9 minutes in December, work them into 10 minutes by the All Star break.
Its not as important that they are putting up 10 to 12 minutes now as it will be post all star break, when the games get heavier and more taxing. Maurice does not want to sink or swim them, he does not have to. He has structure and depth that he can ease them in properly.
Many teams that throw out rookies and immediately give them top end minutes, are either tanking or they have older more developed rookies. Neither Petan or Copp fit into those scenarios.
Neither Tampa Bay nor Chicago fill in the last scenario you just gave.
4th line ES TOI last night:
Thorbz: 7:24
Petan: 7:00
Peluso: 6:43
Petan got 2:23 on the PP so he played 9:23 total.
BTW: Enstrom only played 16:53 total TOI last night (incl. 0:23 on the PP) - 16:30 ES. I guess since he's not playing on the PK or PP (much) and Buff played on both last night, he's the odd man out?
Thorbz: 7:24
Petan: 7:00
Peluso: 6:43
Petan got 2:23 on the PP so he played 9:23 total.
BTW: Enstrom only played 16:53 total TOI last night (incl. 0:23 on the PP) - 16:30 ES. I guess since he's not playing on the PK or PP (much) and Buff played on both last night, he's the odd man out?
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
Well neither Tampa or Chicago are tanking, I think that's self explanatory and Marko Dano is 20 while Hartman is 21, not super experienced. Same can be said of Namestnikov and Drouin.
So these players:
Marko Dano: late first round pick. 35 games of NHL experience already
Ryan Hartman: late first round pick. A smattering of games last year
Vladislav Namestnikov: late first round pick. 43 games last year, + ? this year.
Jonathan Drouin: 3rd overall pick, 70 games last year.
Are comparable in draft position and experience to these players?
Andrew Copp: 4th round pick, 1 game last year
Nic Petan: 2nd round pick, no games last year
I get what you're saying, Sweech - typically, the 4th line has not been played very much. I can see the same happening this year as well, but I'm willing to give Copp and Petan some time to grow into the role and potentially force Maurice's hand. They're already getting the same TOI as last year's 4th line (or very close), with next to no NHL experience under their belts. I was skeptical of anyone usurping Pav's role, yet Hutch was given the opportunity, and almost stole the starting position.
The past is the past. Things can change. You may be right. I may be right. I think we'll start to see which position is correct in the next 10-20 games.
Marko Dano: late first round pick. 35 games of NHL experience already
Ryan Hartman: late first round pick. A smattering of games last year
Vladislav Namestnikov: late first round pick. 43 games last year, + ? this year.
Jonathan Drouin: 3rd overall pick, 70 games last year.
Are comparable in draft position and experience to these players?
Andrew Copp: 4th round pick, 1 game last year
Nic Petan: 2nd round pick, no games last year
I get what you're saying, Sweech - typically, the 4th line has not been played very much. I can see the same happening this year as well, but I'm willing to give Copp and Petan some time to grow into the role and potentially force Maurice's hand. They're already getting the same TOI as last year's 4th line (or very close), with next to no NHL experience under their belts. I was skeptical of anyone usurping Pav's role, yet Hutch was given the opportunity, and almost stole the starting position.
The past is the past. Things can change. You may be right. I may be right. I think we'll start to see which position is correct in the next 10-20 games.
truck
Registered User
Copp and Petan likely would be playing more if the line's third member was more useful.
Asking two rooks to carry a bad player is weird. Asking one two carry two bad players is even weirder.
The team made a choice very early on not to sign quality depth. This sealed the fate of Copp and Petan every bit as much as their inexperience. No line with Tony P and Thorburn will be good enough to take a regular shift.
Asking two rooks to carry a bad player is weird. Asking one two carry two bad players is even weirder.
The team made a choice very early on not to sign quality depth. This sealed the fate of Copp and Petan every bit as much as their inexperience. No line with Tony P and Thorburn will be good enough to take a regular shift.
No but Dano and Hartman have been primarily AHL players this season. Namestnikov will be 23 this month and has spent 3 full seasons in the AHL, and Drouin is a top 3 pick and in his 2nd full season in the NHL and would be a closer comparison to Ehlers. None of them IMO are really good comparibles to Petan and Copp's roles with the Jets.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
So primarily AHL players get played more than our 4th line? Good.
Namestnikov and Drouin was last year btw. So knock those ages down again, plus where you're taken as a pick is absolutely irrelevant. Petan is super skilled just like Drouin.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
I for sure don't buy any argument saying it's Thorburn that's keeping those two's icetime down.
That's because Maurice has shown a willingness to even go so far as to bump Thorburn into top 6 icetime during injuries, so it has nothing to do with him imo.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
Draft position is so meaningless.
Lowry was drafted where?
He played how many minutes for us last year?
Exactly.
Ondrej Palat was drafted where? How much did he play for Tampa?
Fallacy of an argument.
I'm not sure I understand your argument, Sweech, but let me give it a shot:
"The Jets fourth line never gets played, and that's a fact, jack. It never has, and it never will".
Does that accurately summarize it?
What is the point you're trying to make? That Maurice will never run his 4th line? That we simply have the wrong players in place? 
If you believe the statements we're making are a fallacy, then explain how. I think it's a difficult thing to do, as we don't know if that line will get more time as the rooks get more experience.
"The Jets fourth line never gets played, and that's a fact, jack. It never has, and it never will".
Does that accurately summarize it?
What is the point you're trying to make? That Maurice will never run his 4th line? That we simply have the wrong players in place? If you believe the statements we're making are a fallacy, then explain how. I think it's a difficult thing to do, as we don't know if that line will get more time as the rooks get more experience.
