Jesse Puljujarvi Part 8 | Signs 2-Year Pact with Oilers ($1.175M per); Loaned to Karpat

[Fourier]

Here some beginners guide for You.

And by the way for the reference at least to me being mean does not mean someone is possessing a real wisdom on anything...

Understanding NHL Analytics: A Beginners Guide Part 2

The issue is less so that people don't understand these stats as it is that they don't have much respect for them because they are so often misused. These expected goal stats have some value in terms of understanding how many chances of various types a player generates. But they are limited in how they should be used.

 

[Whyme]

Makes sense, I understand he would be a big loss for Karpat as well. I’m concerned with timing this year with things potentially being more hectic with a shorter time between playoffs, draft and free agency.

You’re thinking they might have a deal signed but just want to keep it quiet for now (for the reasons mentioned)?

To be honest I have no idea. But if they had a deal they would probably plan (I believe it should be okay to Holland) to postpone telling about it until the FEL season has firmly started.

 

[Whyme]

As for Puli on the PP, he had a few cracks at it and did squat, I mean the guy couldn’t hit the net and when he does, well, a career shooting % around 7 is hideous. Why even bother, you talk him up like he’s a sniper, not in this league he isn’t. As for Lucic and Cammalleri, Lucic is a net front presence not a good one but that’s why he was there. Cammalleri is a good passer, or was anyway. Cagguila? Don’t make me laugh, how many minutes did he ever get there?
At any rate JP can sulk all he wants and his fanboys can whine about usage, fact is in 3 years he accomplished nothing. I’d be curious to see what our record is with and without him in the lineup

With all respect you've proved to be someone who finds or says absolutely nothing positive about Pulju even when it's unquestionable. Your manners are also bad but so be it. You just keep laughing at others and don't realize how silly you make yourself look when you keep doing that.

About your words "as for Puli on the PP, he had a few cracks at it and did squat": His PPG (power play goals) /60 in the two seasons he got any PP where the 2nd and 3rd best of the team. Would you at least agree he filled his place in those rare occasions he got PP usage? How much more would you expect? Of course not many minutes, but it's another thing.

BUT... at the time he was leading the team at ESG (even strength goals) /60 he didn't get ANY pp usage. The little he got in the 2nd unit came much later. The evidence is here, it was much more than the Finnish fanboys who were incredibly angry for not using Pulju on the PP. I can't believe people have such short memories, but I suppose it's the same with myself with some other issues.

 

[bobbythebrain]

With all respect you've proved to be someone who finds or says absolutely nothing positive about Pulju even when it's unquestionable. Your manners are also bad but so be it. You just keep laughing at others and don't realize how silly you make yourself look when you keep doing that.

About your words "as for Puli on the PP, he had a few cracks at it and did squat": His PPG (power play goals) /60 in the two seasons he got any PP where the 2nd and 3rd best of the team. Would you at least agree he filled his place in those rare occasions he got PP usage? How much more would you expect? Of course not many minutes, but it's another thing.

BUT... at the time he was leading the team at ESG (even strength goals) /60 he didn't get ANY pp usage. The little he got in the 2nd unit came much later. The evidence is here, it was much more than the Finnish fanboys who were incredibly angry for not using Pulju on the PP. I can't believe people have such short memories, but I suppose it's the same with myself with some other issues.

P/60 is such a subjective stat and that is often used as turd polish
I remember when p/60 was used ad nauseam to explain how fantastic of a player Yakupov was, and the Oilers were misusing his incredible talents

Put it as simple as this. You know what YOUNG player was on a crappy team, played on the 3rd/4th line, was scratched, promoted to the 2nd line, then demoted for not doing much, then forced to penalty kill at 18 years of age, who got sporadic pp time and was forced to play net front despite his scoring ability? You know, all those evil things JP fans complain about. Kirby Dach

You wanna know why KD is still in the NHL and nobody is crying about his play?
It's really quite simple tbh.....he used his size. Too much infact as he took alot of hits and fans were getting worried. But it's b/c he used his size when he could is even the fact he stuck in the AHL

I've watched both players from day 1, and despite seeing the skill from both,the biggest difference is 1 guy made plays away from the puck, and the other didn't. 1 guy got into forechecks consistently and used his big frame to shield pucks, the other....not so much

There is no doubt JP would still be in the NHL today if he just decided to play a little more NA. Nobody was stopping him from playing to his strengths, but he needed to fix his weaknesses, and judging by the fact 3 years into his carer he was still being called Bambi on the ice for the amount he fell, it's pretty obvious he only wanted to play 1 way

 

[CycloneSweep]

With all respect you've proved to be someone who finds or says absolutely nothing positive about Pulju even when it's unquestionable. Your manners are also bad but so be it. You just keep laughing at others and don't realize how silly you make yourself look when you keep doing that.

About your words "as for Puli on the PP, he had a few cracks at it and did squat": His PPG (power play goals) /60 in the two seasons he got any PP where the 2nd and 3rd best of the team. Would you at least agree he filled his place in those rare occasions he got PP usage? How much more would you expect? Of course not many minutes, but it's another thing.

BUT... at the time he was leading the team at ESG (even strength goals) /60 he didn't get ANY pp usage. The little he got in the 2nd unit came much later. The evidence is here, it was much more than the Finnish fanboys who were incredibly angry for not using Pulju on the PP. I can't believe people have such short memories, but I suppose it's the same with myself with some other issues.

He wasn't getting pp time cause they were trying him on it in practice and he couldn't even get open in practice...against a PK that at the time, was abysmal. If you can't even show I'm practice that you can get open for shots, your coach isn't going to give you PP time. The fact that those spots were open and Puljujarvi didn't force the issue is on him.

The issue with ev goals/60 is that it almost NEVER scales with ice time. Often you give a player like that more icetime that stat plummets. Yes it sometimes doesn't but using it as a "he is secretly incredible but can only show it when given more ice time!" Doesn't make sense because if that stat shows he is good, then he should be doing well in the position he was in.

The Oilers didn't do great by him, but by all accounts JP didn't do himself any favors either. It's unfortunate cause even now he has potential but it'll be a lot like Yakupov where his career is up to him now. What happened in the past now doesn't matter cause it changes nothing. No amount of what ifs changes anything.

If Puljujarvi wants an NHL career he needs to come over, play for whatever god damn team has his rights (including the Oilers), and show that he can succeed at this level and if he wants top 6 ice time, force the issue. Once you get that spot you work to keep it.

Tippett has already shown he is willing to do that.

Puljujarvis career is in his hands. If he decides to stay over in Finland because the Oilers haven't traded him, he is literally just lowering the chance he will be a top 6 NHL player like he thinks he is

 

[Whyme]

He wasn't getting pp time cause they were trying him on it in practice and he couldn't even get open in practice...against a PK that at the time, was abysmal. If you can't even show I'm practice that you can get open for shots, your coach isn't going to give you PP time. The fact that those spots were open and Puljujarvi didn't force the issue is on him.

The issue with ev goals/60 is that it almost NEVER scales with ice time. Often you give a player like that more icetime that stat plummets. Yes it sometimes doesn't but using it as a "he is secretly incredible but can only show it when given more ice time!" Doesn't make sense because if that stat shows he is good, then he should be doing well in the position he was in.

The Oilers didn't do great by him, but by all accounts JP didn't do himself any favors either. It's unfortunate cause even now he has potential but it'll be a lot like Yakupov where his career is up to him now. What happened in the past now doesn't matter cause it changes nothing. No amount of what ifs changes anything.

If Puljujarvi wants an NHL career he needs to come over, play for whatever god damn team has his rights (including the Oilers), and show that he can succeed at this level and if he wants top 6 ice time, force the issue. Once you get that spot you work to keep it.

Tippett has already shown he is willing to do that.

Puljujarvis career is in his hands. If he decides to stay over in Finland because the Oilers haven't traded him, he is literally just lowering the chance he will be a top 6 NHL player like he thinks he is

I agree with you partly and while I don't with some things I have no problem with a straight and honest talk. But I do feel stats are often used against Pulju, but any time he does good in those a few guys, always the same ones, find a way to say why the stats don't actually matter in that particular case. Yet I see the same guys using all kinds of stats to back their opinions elsewhere or against Pulju. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

I'm honestly tired of these vague "he may have had a good G/60, but it doesn't matter because nobody trusted him" things.

Goals/60 does have some importance, because the players amount of goals or assistants is dependant on the ice time. Even if it doesn't go hand in hand with increased icetime the particular player can't do much more.

You said "he wasn't getting pp time cause they were trying him on it in practice and he couldn't even get open in practice" credible either. This kind of claims require a source. I could say he deserved pp time because he was incredible in practice and got open all the time, but you wouldn't give it any weight either.

All I know is they tried Pulju in his typical PP place quickly in one preseason game and the comments here were pretty much praising him. I'll bring them for you if you like, maybe you'd then understand why it feels odd he didn't get that chance during the normal games within those three years.

Now I'll have to drop this PP talk as I anticipate I'll start getting negative comments from a few posters

But to finish this with some kind of an agreement I would be very very surprised if he stayed in Finland. I haven't always liked your words about Pulju but I know you can cheer for him if he comes back and does well. I hope and believe that'll be the case so maybe we can one day look back to these posts and be happy it's in the past

 

[Whyme]

There is no doubt JP would still be in the NHL today if he just decided to play a little more NA. Nobody was stopping him from playing to his strengths, but he needed to fix his weaknesses, and judging by the fact 3 years into his carer he was still being called Bambi on the ice for the amount he fell, it's pretty obvious he only wanted to play 1 way

I disagree with some of the things you said, but actually liked the tone so I respect your view and don't try to push it to something else. The word bambi was used by you and maybe one or two others and as you guys are the most critical people towards him I wouldn't say that was a general name for him. In fact he played a lot of games where there were no signs of problems in that field, but just like that he could have the most awkward looking moments. I always knew after those which guys would come and write about it

I agree with the physical part. It was sometimes a bit frustrating, but I honestly think the balance issues affected that. I've also seen a lot of young, mainly European players to start their NHL careers without physical contact and still finding their way in the team. For Pulju more physicality would've certainly helped and I believe Todd was a guy who would've liked that more than some other coaches.

I can assure you in that regard he's like a new guy. Big, strong and at his best aggressive. I can only hope he'll use that well in the NHL when he comes back. If not I'll be disappointed. I don't want him to turn to a grinder, but as he is big and strong that could help him and his line immensely in the NHL. I guarantee you'd liked Pulju who played against Russia (and two other teams) in his latest national team tournament.

 

[Messrules11]

With all respect you've proved to be someone who finds or says absolutely nothing positive about Pulju even when it's unquestionable. Your manners are also bad but so be it. You just keep laughing at others and don't realize how silly you make yourself look when you keep doing that.

About your words "as for Puli on the PP, he had a few cracks at it and did squat": His PPG (power play goals) /60 in the two seasons he got any PP where the 2nd and 3rd best of the team. Would you at least agree he filled his place in those rare occasions he got PP usage? How much more would you expect? Of course not many minutes, but it's another thing.

BUT... at the time he was leading the team at ESG (even strength goals) /60 he didn't get ANY pp usage. The little he got in the 2nd unit came much later. The evidence is here, it was much more than the Finnish fanboys who were incredibly angry for not using Pulju on the PP. I can't believe people have such short memories, but I suppose it's the same with myself with some other issues.

I have nothing positive to say about Puli for good reason, he quit. Just because he’s Oilers property doesn’t mean I have to like it. You keep going back to PP and p/60 but keep failing to realize the PP minutes are earned from 5 on 5 play. If he won’t put in the work at even strength why should the coach gift him anything? New GM, new coach and he still walked away, can you explain that?

 

[Whyme]

I have nothing positive to say about Puli for good reason, he quit. Just because he’s Oilers property doesn’t mean I have to like it. You keep going back to PP and p/60 but keep failing to realize the PP minutes are earned from 5 on 5 play. If he won’t put in the work at even strength why should the coach gift him anything? New GM, new coach and he still walked away, can you explain that?

You're so locked to the "he quit" thought you can't look at things even a bit objectively. Many others have tried to talk to you about the other angles so I won't repeat myself anymore. It feels like you're almost trying to tire others with the same replies and often a rude tone, anyway it worked with me.

 

[Messrules11]

You're so locked to the "he quit" thought you can't look at things even a bit objectively. Many others have tried to talk to you about the other angles so I won't repeat myself anymore. It feels like you're almost trying to tire others with the same replies and often a rude tone, anyway it worked with me.

I’ve stated over and over that I just want an asset in return, if he’s as good as you claim we should get a good return.

 

[Whyme]

I’ve stated over and over that I just want an asset in return, if he’s as good as you claim we should get a good return.

Yes you have the right to feel so, though I'm not sure you've said that to me before. I don't go through every single message over here so I may have missed that. Or forgotten. But yes it's just as good an opinion as anybody else's over here.

I said he's clearly developed in Finland, but we'll have to wait till he plays in the NHL to see his level there. But if Pulju is as bad as you say you probably won't like the return.

At least Pulju has given/caused a lot of discussion over here, the amount of threads/messages is pretty amazing. I wonder how you guys can live without that if he indeed is traded

 

[Aerchon]

P/60 is such a subjective stat and that is often used as turd polish
I remember when p/60 was used ad nauseam to explain how fantastic of a player Yakupov was, and the Oilers were misusing his incredible talents

Put it as simple as this. You know what YOUNG player was on a crappy team, played on the 3rd/4th line, was scratched, promoted to the 2nd line, then demoted for not doing much, then forced to penalty kill at 18 years of age, who got sporadic pp time and was forced to play net front despite his scoring ability? You know, all those evil things JP fans complain about. Kirby Dach

You wanna know why KD is still in the NHL and nobody is crying about his play?
It's really quite simple tbh.....he used his size. Too much infact as he took alot of hits and fans were getting worried. But it's b/c he used his size when he could is even the fact he stuck in the AHL

I've watched both players from day 1, and despite seeing the skill from both,the biggest difference is 1 guy made plays away from the puck, and the other didn't. 1 guy got into forechecks consistently and used his big frame to shield pucks, the other....not so much

There is no doubt JP would still be in the NHL today if he just decided to play a little more NA. Nobody was stopping him from playing to his strengths, but he needed to fix his weaknesses, and judging by the fact 3 years into his carer he was still being called Bambi on the ice for the amount he fell, it's pretty obvious he only wanted to play 1 way

Ffg & goofs/60 say Taylor Hall was ten times the Bambi Puljujarvi was. His Ffg & goofs/60 are right there with McDavid. Completely acceptable levels.

I have literally never heard anyone call Puljujarvi Bambi except by you and ??? On this board.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Ffg & goofs/60 say Taylor Hall was ten times the Bambi Puljujarvi was. His Ffg & goofs/60 are right there with McDavid. Completely acceptable levels.

I have literally never heard anyone call Puljujarvi Bambi except by you and ??? On this board.

LOL. What? So now you're comparing Hall to Puljujarvi?

Imagine...thinking JP was as good as Hall.....oh my laurd heavenly jebus

Are you trying to lose credibility points?

PS: Go to a GDT perhaps...you would have seen many posts calling JP out for his flops/weak protection. Now, there is nothing wrong with not having "man" muscle as a rookie, look no further than Drai his 1st year. But JP was dropping constantly to the last day in an Oiler uniform., with a MUCH BIGGER FRAME THAN HALL

However, despite the trying to compare flops...Hall still contributed points. Well, JP...not so much

 

[Fourier]

I agree with you partly and while I don't with some things I have no problem with a straight and honest talk. But I do feel stats are often used against Pulju, but any time he does good in those a few guys, always the same ones, find a way to say why the stats don't actually matter in that particular case. Yet I see the same guys using all kinds of stats to back their opinions elsewhere or against Pulju. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

I'm honestly tired of these vague "he may have had a good G/60, but it doesn't matter because nobody trusted him" things.

Goals/60 does have some importance, because the players amount of goals or assistants is dependant on the ice time. Even if it doesn't go hand in hand with increased icetime the particular player can't do much more.

You said "he wasn't getting pp time cause they were trying him on it in practice and he couldn't even get open in practice" credible either. This kind of claims require a source. I could say he deserved pp time because he was incredible in practice and got open all the time, but you wouldn't give it any weight either.

All I know is they tried Pulju in his typical PP place quickly in one preseason game and the comments here were pretty much praising him. I'll bring them for you if you like, maybe you'd then understand why it feels odd he didn't get that chance during the normal games within those three years.

Now I'll have to drop this PP talk as I anticipate I'll start getting negative comments from a few posters

But to finish this with some kind of an agreement I would be very very surprised if he stayed in Finland. I haven't always liked your words about Pulju but I know you can cheer for him if he comes back and does well. I hope and believe that'll be the case so maybe we can one day look back to these posts and be happy it's in the past

I think there is a lot over over analysis on why JP was not getting pp time. Most of this can be explained by McLellan's stubbornness with the pp in general. From the start of 2016-2017 until he was traded in 2018 McLellan had Mark Letestu as a fixture on the #1pp. Throw in Lucic and the Oilers #1 pp was pretty much McDavid, Draisaitl, Letestu, Lucic and Klefbom for a good part of two years. Over that time Nuge for example was 9th on the team in pp TOI/g. That pp worked for a time and then Letestu and Lucic came back to earth but they remained in their spots. If Nuge couldn't break into that unit why would anyone expect McLellan to use JP??

Even now, JP is unlikely to get much opportunity on the pp unless he plays as the net front presence which is not really his game. But this version of the pp has a reason to be kept intact.

 

[harpoon]

Even now, JP is unlikely to get much opportunity on the pp unless he plays as the net front presence which is not really his game. But this version of the pp has a reason to be kept intact.

This is kind of what I was wondering. Imagine Puljujarvi couldn’t get minutes on a shitty power play ... how is he going to get any time on a PP that came close to setting NHL records? Assuming he does come back, and I hope he does because it would show some gumption on his part, I suspect some of his most fervent backers will be displeased all over again by his deployment.

 

[TheUltimateOiler]

Ffg & goofs/60 say Taylor Hall was ten times the Bambi Puljujarvi was. His Ffg & goofs/60 are right there with McDavid. Completely acceptable levels.

I have literally never heard anyone call Puljujarvi Bambi except by you and ??? On this board.

My girlfriend and I call Jesse Bambi but it's more of a cute name because sometimes it looks like he is going to fall over

 

[Dorian2]

Not sure if this has ben posted.

Apparently the Blue Jackets are interested in Jesse Puljujarvi

 

[Whyme]

Even now, JP is unlikely to get much opportunity on the pp unless he plays as the net front presence which is not really his game. But this version of the pp has a reason to be kept intact.

A lot depends on how Holland, Tippett and maybe McDavid think about Pulju's potential.

1. scenario: They see Pulju as a 3rd liner with no PP usage. If Pulju plays a good season that would maybe mean 25-40 points in that role. Those points would keep the bust talks going. I could see a trade with a low return looming. If this the role the Oilers plan it might be better to trade Pulju to get a good 3C.

2. scenario: They think Pulju could be a better RW for McDavid than what's available right now so they give it a go. They feel he could be a solid piece on the PP, maybe the 2nd unit and if all goes well the 1st unit one day. If things will go well the Oilers get an extra top6 player. But if it still doesn't work they can trade Pulju or then put him to the bottom 6. Hopefully he'd scored at least at the same rate with McD as he's done so far, which should increase his trade value to some extent.

Of course I would love to see Pulju get a chance with McDavid (or Drai) and on the PP so take my thoughts as they are. But I do believe Pulju would fill that role well this time.

 

[Whyme]

Not sure if this has ben posted.

Apparently the Blue Jackets are interested in Jesse Puljujarvi

Thanks for the link! I still hope the Oilers see him as a very potential top 6 and PP player and he'll end up in the Oilers, but if not I could see a trade possible between these two teams. A part of me is annoyed at the constant negativity a few writers have towards him, and thus feel a change of place would be welcome, but I'd still like to see a 2nd try in Edmonton. As for the Oilers I'm not sure which would be the best option, as another good goalie and a center are also needed. But so is a winger for McDavid

 

[tellermine]

I just hope he gets to NHL soon.
Let the kid show what he can do!

I am quite pessimisti about him but I do hope I am wrong.
Nice kid, actually talked with him years back.

Interesting that Kekäläinen would be interested from Puljujärvi as he passed kid in draft and was quite clear of why he did so.

 

[Llamamoto]

I just hope he gets to NHL soon.
Let the kid show what he can do!

I am quite pessimisti about him but I do hope I am wrong.
Nice kid, actually talked with him years back.

Interesting that Kekäläinen would be interested from Puljujärvi as he passed kid in draft and was quite clear of why he did so.

Where did you see that? From what I remember, the primary reason for him passing on Pulju was their need for a C.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

When does he play again? I'd much rather see updates and highlights than bickering

 

[tellermine]

Where did you see that? From what I remember, the primary reason for him passing on Pulju was their need for a C.

It was in Finnish tabloids. Intrewiev.
I actually linked it here year or two back.
He is quite nice to Puljujärvi and praises Dubois for his understsnding of the game etc., when asked why not Puljujärvi. And in same time tells what Puljujärvi was lacking.

 

[PulYou]

When does he play again? I'd much rather see updates and highlights than bickering

I believe there is one more pre-season game on next tuesday. Kärpät will face Kalpa on 22nd September. And the regular season should start on 1st October against HPK.

 

[PulYou]

It was in Finnish tabloids. Intrewiev.
I actually linked it here year or two back.
He is quite nice to Puljujärvi and praises Dubois for his understsnding of the game etc., when asked why not Puljujärvi. And in same time tells what Puljujärvi was lacking.

Why don’t You link Your source then? I think as a Finn following carefully Pulju’s caree I too would have noticed something on Finnish tabloids had there been an interview Kekäläinen talking about Pulju.

There was one where Kimmo Timonen said he had watched Pulju and Laine play. Timonen claimed he had said to Kekäläinen that Pulju will be a star in the NHL. Timonen also claimed saying that he thought Pulju is a better player than Laine. Kekäläinen had answered to Timonen that he will bet that Laine will be a super star in a few years in the NHL and not Pulju.

As for picking Dubois instead of Pulju Kekäläinen has stated that he thought Dubois being opposite of Pulju and Dubois style of play fit better to the style of CBJ.