Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part 15

[Habs Icing]

But the wolves only really come out when he plays with the plugs. To me it’s about putting him in a position to succeed, asking a 20 year old to carry 4th liners is a mistake. 1st liners should help carry the 20 year old so he gains confidence and improves playing with better players and that includes practice.

The following post shows that KK has had at least one scorer as a linemate for all his games but 11. That's 36 and we're not counting his PP minutes. And yes I counted Drouin as a non-scorer. What will be the next excuse that he needs two scorers?

Someone on twitter researched how much games he played with each of his 12 set of wingers. I know someone had asked for this info a few days ago, so here it is.

Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Armia (6)
Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Perry (8) (longest consecutive with 7 games)
Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Armia (4)
Lehkonen-Kotkaniemi-Armia (6)
Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Anderson (2)
Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher (3)
Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Anderson (8)
Byron-Kotkaniemi-Lehkonen (4)
Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Toffoli (1)
Tatar-Danault-Kotkaniemi (3) (wing)
Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Byron (1)
Anderson-Kotkaniemi-Perry (1)

I love how the person who got that info labelled KK as a "rental 3c"...

 

[Mrb1p]

In my mind KK and Suzuki should always be paired with our most offensive forwards. And Danault shoud be playing on a extreme shutdown line.

Tatar KK Anderson
Toffoli Suzuki Caufield
Lekhonen Danault Armia
Perry Staal Evans

I'm not saying that line up would win us more games. I'm saying that that line up would develop our kids better in an offensive role. I don't care about winning or losing at this point. We won't win the cup this year with the D that we have.

Lately theyve been using Kotkaniemi in an extreme shutdown role. I guess Im okay with that, its better than deploying him offensively with offensively inept wingers.

 

[Habs Icing]

KK has clearly had good linemates this year playing with Anderson and Toffoli more than any other combination.

Kind of dispels a lot of notions.

The offensive game that many posters are seeing is really in their imagination and not on the ice.

 

[Habs Icing]

Would be interesting to see how that constant linemates yo-yoing compares to other young forwards drafted for top-6 talent...

I suspect he'd sit near the low end of the spectrum in terms of consistency, but would be nice to ground that vs other 19-20-21 year old players

You don't have to go too far. Suzuki has had the same treatment and his offense has improved compared to last year.

 

[durojean]

KK and Suzuki are 20 and 21. We as fans are asking too much for our young centers who are still learning on the job while we try to be a competitive team. Flaws at play and I'm surprised on how so many in our fan base are ignoring the age of our young centers.

I agree with everything you said but I think we are too early and the issues run deep

I specifically said in my post that I'm not looking to be competitive. I'm looking to develop what is supposed to be our futur in an offensive role. Give them the reign of the team and live with that. We are probably not better than Ottawa this year. But in 2 years, the experience that our younger player will have taken in key role will be really valuable.

 

[Captain Mountain]

You don't have to go too far. Suzuki has had the same treatment and his offense has improved compared to last year.

That is mostly down to usage.

-Kotkaniemi's production is up over last season too.

-KK and Suzuki's 5v5 production is nearly identical.

-The difference between the two of them is on the PP, where Suzuki has been much better. But Montreal's PP strategy is so bad I'm not sure how much I'd want to criticize KK based on that.

Montreal's be really bad manufacturing offense across the board (and its been worse under Ducharme), but the team is built to not play creatively or take real risks.

That, the lack of creativity and line shuffling hasn't done either KK or Suzuki any favours. Hell, it hasn't done any forward any favours apart from the guys that can create chances for themselves and are scoring heaters.

 

[Miller Time]

You don't have to go too far. Suzuki has had the same treatment and his offense has improved compared to last year.

You sure about that?

Certainly to start the season he had far greater linemate consistency (& quality).

What are those numbers? I'd be surprised to see as much inconsistency as I recall him, Drouin & Anderson playing together for quite a long stretch to start the year.

 

[Habs Icing]

That is mostly down to usage.

-Kotkaniemi's production is up over last season too.

-KK and Suzuki's 5v5 production is nearly identical.

-The difference between the two of them is on the PP, where Suzuki has been much better. But Montreal's PP strategy is so bad I'm not sure how much I'd want to criticize KK based on that.

Montreal's be really bad manufacturing offense across the board (and its been worse under Ducharme), but the team is built to not play creatively or take real risks.

That, the lack of creativity and line shuffling hasn't done either KK or Suzuki any favours. Hell, it hasn't done any forward any favours apart from the guys that can create chances for themselves and are scoring heaters.

Jeeze man you're comparing KK's stats this year to last year which was a total clusterf**k. Compare it to his first season and you'll see the kid has basically the same production with regular PP time and better linemates this year.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Jeeze man you're comparing KK's stats this year to last year which was a total clusterf**k. Compare it to his first season and you'll see the kid has basically the same production with regular PP time and better linemates this year.

You're kind of missing my point. Suzuki has stagnated too. He' hasn't really progressed.

Its not a Kotkaniemi issue, its not a Suzuki issue, its a Montreal Canadiens issue. Everyone's offense is down except for Gallagher (who creates most of his scoring chances on his own anyways), Anderson and Toffoli (both of whom are mostly just scoring an are on career high shooting benders).

Look at Ducharme and Bergevin.

 

[Habs Icing]

You're kind of missing my point. Suzuki has stagnated too. He' hasn't really progressed.

Its not a Kotkaniemi issue, its not a Suzuki issue, its a Montreal Canadiens issue. Everyone's offense is down except for Gallagher (who creates most of his scoring chances on his own anyways), Anderson and Toffoli (both of whom are mostly just scoring an are on career high shooting benders).

Look at Ducharme and Bergevin.

NS's numbers have improved compared to last year. So no Suzuki has not stagnated especially if you take into consideration that he has more defensive responsibility this year.

 

[Mrb1p]

NS's numbers have improved compared to last year. So no Suzuki has not stagnated especially if you take into consideration that he has more defensive responsibility this year.

Kotkaniemi also has way more defensive responsibility, especially since Ducharme came along, he's been used as a NZ/DZ specialist.

 

[Captain Mountain]

NS's numbers have improved compared to last year. So no Suzuki has not stagnated especially if you take into consideration that he has more defensive responsibility this year.

Nick Suzuki - Summary - Natural Stat Trick

Nick Suzuki - Summary - Natural Stat Trick

His overall production rate is down and his 5v5 production rate is slightly up (and slightly worse than KKs 5v5 production rate).

Suzuki is also getting even more of an O-Zone push, is still not asked to be a primary PKer is facing similar competition.

This is a coaching/devlopment/team building issue more than its a KK issue.

Kotkaniemi also has way more defensive responsibility, especially since Ducharme came along, he's been used as a NZ/DZ specialist.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

More Neutral Zone, he hasn't really taken many D-zone face-offs.

 

[Miller Time]

NS's numbers have improved compared to last year. So no Suzuki has not stagnated especially if you take into consideration that he has more defensive responsibility this year.

And JKO'S numbers have improved over last year... You can cherry pick all you want, doesn't add any validity to your argument but instead further undermines it

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Really smart putting both armia and Perry with him. Gonna push the pace like crazy. The saving grace with everything going on is DD probably not getting resigned. He's terrible

 

[sandviper]

I get KK has been inconsistent and NS as well, but looking at stats is only part of the story. Actually watching, when both guys are on and dominating, KK has been the superior player.

 

[montreal]

I get KK has been inconsistent and NS as well, but looking at stats is only part of the story. Actually watching, when both guys are on and dominating, KK has been the superior player.

I don't know about that, both bring different things, KK is likely going to be a beast whereas Suzuki's game will rely more on his high IQ. If Suzuki had 1 more pt, only 1 forward on the team would have more points then him. He clearly doesn't look right but I think many that have been crapping on the two young centers are not taking into consideration what a toll the most condensed schedule i've ever seen is taking on them. I fully expect both players to be better next year though for KK I agree with Scotty Bowman on his 2 years for KK comments.

 

[Miller Time]

I get KK has been inconsistent and NS as well, but looking at stats is only part of the story. Actually watching, when both guys are on and dominating, KK has been the superior player.

2 very high quality young players that I believe will have gradual improvement curves that top out at a very high level...

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I get KK has been inconsistent and NS as well, but looking at stats is only part of the story. Actually watching, when both guys are on and dominating, KK has been the superior player.

No way. Suzuki when he’s been on does things consistently like get shots off in traffic, brilliant passes, sick hands... that KK has yet to demonstrate on a consistent basis at all.

 

[DAChampion]

No way. Suzuki when he’s been on does things consistently like get shots off in traffic, brilliant passes, sick hands... that KK has yet to demonstrate on a consistent basis at all.

What Kotkaniemi does well is gain and maintain possession of the puck.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

NS's numbers have improved compared to last year. So no Suzuki has not stagnated especially if you take into consideration that he has more defensive responsibility this year.

Suzuki's numbers aren't much better than they were. Pacing for 44 points over 71 vs 41 points in the same games last year. Slight improvement but not much.

That being said, it works out to be a 51 point season over 82 which is just fine for a 21 year old.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

What Kotkaniemi does well is gain and maintain possession of the puck.

Suzuki’s takeaways lead to chances the other way. KKs takeaways leads to him fumbling with the puck before falling down awkwardly.

 

[26Mats]

Suzuki's numbers aren't much better than they were. Pacing for 44 points over 71 vs 41 points in the same games last year. Slight improvement but not much.

That being said, it works out to be a 51 point season over 82 which is just fine for a 21 year old.

The thing is, Suzuki had a really fast start. So his numbers since then gave not been good.

He had 11 points in his first 10 games.
Then 18 points in the last 37 games. That's a 39 point pace over 82 games, since the league figured us out and our scoring is way down.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Suzuki’s takeaways lead to chances the other way. KKs takeaways leads to him fumbling with the puck before falling down awkwardly.

I don't know about that. He's made some great passes that just don't wind up getting converted. The other night he basically had to bank it off Lek's stick for the goal...

 

[montreal]

keep in mind the Habs offense has gone to shit so everyone's numbers will take a hit this month. In 15 games this moth they have scored just 32 goals. In 11 of those games they have scored 2 or less goals.

 

[sandviper]

I don't know about that, both bring different things, KK is likely going to be a beast whereas Suzuki's game will rely more on his high IQ. If Suzuki had 1 more pt, only 1 forward on the team would have more points then him. He clearly doesn't look right but I think many that have been crapping on the two young centers are not taking into consideration what a toll the most condensed schedule i've ever seen is taking on them. I fully expect both players to be better next year though for KK I agree with Scotty Bowman on his 2 years for KK comments.

I don't disagree with any of this but I guess it comes down to styles. I suppose Philly and Pittsburgh aren't the best examples as neither really had an answer for both NS and KK last playoffs. NS is exciting and creates chances when he's going at 100, but I find KK tilts the ice more when he's going 100. This isn't a knock on Nick at all as both guys are promising if they both reach potential.

No way. Suzuki when he’s been on does things consistently like get shots off in traffic, brilliant passes, sick hands... that KK has yet to demonstrate on a consistent basis at all.

That was kind of what I said... consistency is an issue. I get Nick is a dynamo offensively when firing on all cylinders, but KK is a beast with possession, hammers people, cycles, wins faceoffs and can score. I get it, he hasn't shown he can do that night in and out.