Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 13

[azcanuck]

not without a major improvement in management...

remember the Oilers this past decade? hall, eberle, RNH, klefbom, gagner, plante, nash, pajaarvi... and those were just the 1st round pick prospect talents they collected in a 5 year span (add another 10 2nd/3rd rounders) from 07-2011 (and ignoring the 1st overall they got in 2012)...

reaping the "benefits of all the good prospects" doesn't happen without solid, effective roster building and planning. We don't have that competency yet in place, nor do we have anywhere near the top-6/top-4 blue-chip quality prospects that other franchises have had, and failed to build from.

JKO is the only top-10 "prospect" talent we have. All our other prospects are pretty much dime-o-dozen league-wide, we just happen to have a lot of them (so many that we are already in the process of letting decent ones go unsigned due to contract limitations, and issue that will only increase year over year given how MB set things up).

You dont believe in the new FIVE YEAR reset?

 

[Gally11]

KK is never going to produce more than 50 pts a season. He was a terrible pick at 3. It's not really up for debate at this point

The minute you say it's not up for the debate you've lost the argument

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

KK is never going to produce more than 50 pts a season. He was a terrible pick at 3. It's not really up for debate at this point

He's 20 years old which makes your last sentence completely laughable.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

not without a major improvement in management...

remember the Oilers this past decade? hall, eberle, RNH, klefbom, gagner, plante, nash, pajaarvi... and those were just the 1st round pick prospect talents they collected in a 5 year span (add another 10 2nd/3rd rounders) from 07-2011 (and ignoring the 1st overall they got in 2012)...

reaping the "benefits of all the good prospects" doesn't happen without solid, effective roster building and planning. We don't have that competency yet in place, nor do we have anywhere near the top-6/top-4 blue-chip quality prospects that other franchises have had, and failed to build from.

JKO is the only top-10 "prospect" talent we have. All our other prospects are pretty much dime-o-dozen league-wide, we just happen to have a lot of them (so many that we are already in the process of letting decent ones go unsigned due to contract limitations, and issue that will only increase year over year given how MB set things up).

I rarely disagree with you, but I will for the bolded. Both Caufield and Romanov should've been drafted higher and are not dime-o-dozen among league wide prospects. Caufield slid out of the top 10 simply because of his size, lucky for us, but he's a rare breed. That kind of shot only comes every 5 to 10 years in the league. And while Romanov is not in the Makar/Neiska stratosphere, he's above many D prospects league-wide.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

There’s also the matter of right place at right time for Dom Dom. KKs earned the extra TOI, leads team for March so far with 56% faceoff efficiency vs 45% cumulative for Jan & Feb. There’s less concern now of giving more TOI responsibility, knowing there’s actual defensive progression being output

We should not be basing TOI on FO % at all. One has nothing to do with the other. Even at 46% the difference is pretty meaningless. Nice to see him improve there, but you don’t improve without playing.

 

[salbutera]

We should not be basing TOI on FO % at all. One has nothing to do with the other. Even at 46% the difference is pretty meaningless. Nice to see him improve there, but you don’t improve without playing.

I agree faceoff % in general doesn’t carry much weight given significant % are in neutral zone, however, the point was there’s less concern about KK getting a DZone start due to icing (for example) due to his improved faceoff play, that lesser concern then translates into increased TOI

 

[WeThreeKings]

He had a great game last night despite the defensive miscue on the 4th goal (which looked like confusion between the 3 man unit)

Had a goal blocked by Lehkonen getting interfered with in the crease (led to the PP goal) and then Lehkonen missed a wide open net that he fed him.

His strength and stick use is really good for breaking up plays, gaining and retaining possession. It's all about increasing his offensive timing when the space isn't there and finding a way to get himself open for more shooting opportunities when his linemates have possession.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

KK is never going to produce more than 50 pts a season. He was a terrible pick at 3. It's not really up for debate at this point

Wait wha... WHAT???

 

[Mrb1p]

He had a great game last night despite the defensive miscue on the 4th goal (which looked like confusion between the 3 man unit)

Had a goal blocked by Lehkonen getting interfered with in the crease (led to the PP goal) and then Lehkonen missed a wide open net that he fed him.

His strength and stick use is really good for breaking up plays, gaining and retaining possession. It's all about increasing his offensive timing when the space isn't there and finding a way to get himself open for more shooting opportunities when his linemates have possession.

What a f***ing elite pass that was from KK too. Cant believe hes stuck with the two finn anchors again. Frustrating.

 

[WeThreeKings]

What a f***ing elite pass that was from KK too. Cant believe hes stuck with the two finn anchors again. Frustrating.

He had a couple like that to Tatar earlier where he whiffed on it as well.

 

[Adriatic]

He does have a tendency to stop skating when he enters the zone with the puck. He often stops moving his feet and tries to make some useless deake with his stick that mostly results in a turnover. He should work on that and try to drive towards the net with more momentum.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Your not wrong I guess, but you almost managed to mention every negative aspect going forward in one post. I guess you forgot about having one of the stronger farm systems in the league or finally having two young, promising centres. The team isn't playing great right now, but it's not all doom and gloom because they can't win an OT game.

Can we stop this. Every time I hear this I get sick to my stomach. For the past 20 years online I have seen "the best prospect pool since X" or "There isn't anyone with as much farm depth as we have"

Want to look at the record?

Cup wins ZERO
Cup Finals ZERO

If we have been super deep since the early 2000's why hasn't it translated. It took 2 years for poehling to get back on track and we thought he was a 2nd line center. Nate Beaulieu was seen as a top pairing or at the least 2nd line D, Big mac? Sherbak? Hell I remember when Thrower and Collburg were untradable?

Evans was drafted 7th round in 2014. Finally playing in the nhl (due to not good enough players on the team) turns 25 in june. Evans is more valuable(ie playing in the NHL) than anyone drafted in 7 years outside of rom and KK that is on the habs. What does that say about the strength of our prospect pool? Mete a 4th rounder in 2016 who can barely make this team with injuries over all our other d prospects in the AHL.

Yesterday my wife was talking to me about her best friends nephew. Good young goalie that the family thinks is destined to make the NHL. I told her there are only 62 goalies that play on NHL teams(more or less) in the ENTIRE world. Some come and some go. Some get call ups from AHL etc. I said it is highly unlikely he makes the NHL. He has good size and positioning, but he isn't a highly touted goalie. Most likely he gets an AHL contract makes a bit of cash and finds a job like the rest of us in a few years. The jump from the AHL to the NHL doesn't always translate.

To summarize, crap in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

He had a couple like that to Tatar earlier where he whiffed on it as well.

Can't wait for a KK & CC duo

KC and the sunshine band

 

[Miller Time]

I rarely disagree with you, but I will for the bolded. Both Caufield and Romanov should've been drafted higher and are not dime-o-dozen among league wide prospects. Caufield slid out of the top 10 simply because of his size, lucky for us, but he's a rare breed. That kind of shot only comes every 5 to 10 years in the league. And while Romanov is not in the Makar/Neiska stratosphere, he's above many D prospects league-wide.

Both Caufield & Romanov look very promising, I'd agree.

& perhaps a re-draft of their draft year today puts them in, or just outside the top 10, I'd even agree there...

But id also suggest that the same question marks that kept them from being picked that high remain. The ceilings are high, but the floors are also quite low, especially for Caufield. That's perhaps more what I was implying. "Top-10" talent to me are players with much more likelihood of realizing their potential/fewer question marks (of course, varies year to year & doesn't preclude the player "busting").

Not to move the goal post, but perhaps "top 5" or "blue-chip" is a better description for what I meant...

With Romanov, he's shown he's an NHL talent, but time will tell if he can grow into a top pairing player (I'd bet yes, but can also list a dozen or so other d prospects of similar age in/out of NHL that I'd bet more on).

With Caufield, huge upside, but also not clear that he'll translate the scoring ability well enough to offset his physical limitations & doesn't seem to be a player that will make it as a bottom 6 pro... The Debrincat comps are plentiful, but those cases still remain rare.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Can we stop this. Every time I hear this I get sick to my stomach. For the past 20 years online I have seen "the best prospect pool since X" or "There isn't anyone with as much farm depth as we have"

Want to look at the record?

Cup wins ZERO
Cup Finals ZERO

If we have been super deep since the early 2000's why hasn't it translated. It took 2 years for poehling to get back on track and we thought he was a 2nd line center. Nate Beaulieu was seen as a top pairing or at the least 2nd line D, Big mac? Sherbak? Hell I remember when Thrower and Collburg were untradable?

Evans was drafted 7th round in 2014. Finally playing in the nhl (due to not good enough players on the team) turns 25 in june. Evans is more valuable(ie playing in the NHL) than anyone drafted in 7 years outside of rom and KK that is on the habs. What does that say about the strength of our prospect pool? Mete a 4th rounder in 2016 who can barely make this team with injuries over all our other d prospects in the AHL.

Yesterday my wife was talking to me about her best friends nephew. Good young goalie that the family thinks is destined to make the NHL. I told her there are only 62 goalies that play on NHL teams(more or less) in the ENTIRE world. Some come and some go. Some get call ups from AHL etc. I said it is highly unlikely he makes the NHL. He has good size and positioning, but he isn't a highly touted goalie. Most likely he gets an AHL contract makes a bit of cash and finds a job like the rest of us in a few years. The jump from the AHL to the NHL doesn't always translate.

Well to be fair, I felt like we really had a good shot at a cup with the core we had coming up back in 2013. Subban, Max, Price, Gallagher, Chuck... good young core and we f***ed it up. Instead of adding Jagr (who wanted to come here) we got plugs. We went out and got Douglas Murray...

You can have the best prospect group in the world but if you mismanage it then it's not going to get you anywhere. We hired the two worst possible coaches we could to develop those guys. It's not surprising we went nowhere afterwards.

 

[Mike Towers]

KK is never going to produce more than 50 pts a season. He was a terrible pick at 3. It's not really up for debate at this point

KK will get between 75-80 points on a regular basis he is only 20,he has a great shot,great work ethic,he creates chances.

 

[Mrb1p]

I really cant for the life of me, understand why people are like this with KK. The kid is literally thr sweetest boy in the world and people hate him. Its unbelievable.

 

[Habby4Life]

I really cant for the life of me, understand why people are like this with KK. The kid is literally thr sweetest boy in the world and people hate him. Its unbelievable.

Lol, sweetest boy in the world, WTF. It’s the NHL, not The Bachelor.

No one on here hates him, some just have a different opinion with regards to his upside, myself included.

 

[Habs4Life]

Funny how people are writing him off at 20 years old. He's still one of the youngest players in the league!

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I really cant for the life of me, understand why people are like this with KK. The kid is literally thr sweetest boy in the world and people hate him. Its unbelievable.

There are many ways to explain this sort of behavior and none of them gives you a positive outlook on the person.

 

[Nick Slafkofield]

Wait wha... WHAT???

Dont ever bother man this dude is trippin’

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

I don't understand why DD is willing to nullify one of his lines for the sake of PD. The line of Tatar-Danault-Armia played well. Go back to it. Gallagher and KK actually compliment eachother well

 

[Gravity]

From what I've seen KK has the most chemistry with Drouin and Toffoli. Why not keep that a line, with Armia-Suzuki-Anderson as another?

 

[Adriatic]

From what I've seen KK has the most chemistry with Drouin and Toffoli. Why not keep that a line, with Armia-Suzuki-Anderson as another?

I don't like having three right hand shots on the same line though.

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't understand why DD is willing to nullify one of his lines for the sake of PD. The line of Tatar-Danault-Armia played well. Go back to it. Gallagher and KK actually compliment eachother well

To me, Gally and Suzuki are actually the ones that played good together.

No reasons to breakup Drouin KK Anderson

From what I've seen KK has the most chemistry with Drouin and Toffoli. Why not keep that a line, with Armia-Suzuki-Anderson as another?

Ducharme is a bad f***ing coach. Since hes been here has any line lasted more than a game?