Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part 11)

[Frank Drebin]

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Ive literally listed the 6 rookies that played last night and they ALL played over 15 minutes ???

NHL ice time among rookie forwards from last season, minimum 65 games played.

Out of 105 rookies, Kotka was the 18th most utilized.

NHL.com - Stats

Only 3 players from the 2018 draft met that criteria - Tkachuk, Svech, and Kotka.

 

[Habs Halifax]

NHL ice time among rookie forwards from last season, minimum 65 games played.

Out of 105 rookies, Kotka was the 18th most utilized.

NHL.com - Stats

It's Julien's fault that Kotkaneimi was 18th in rookie ice time and not top 5. Kotkaniemi would of had a 80 pt season for sure if Julien gave him that ice time. And Kotkaniemi would of not struggled at all playing against other top 6 talent at center who are more physically stronger

 

[Mrb1p]

Anyone can cherry pick. Mentioning "nearly all rookies" play more than 15 minutes is a fallacy.

I just listed all rookies that played last night for christs sakes How is that cherry picking ?

Ive done the same thing two nights ago BTW, and the results were the same.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

He's improving and his ice-time is going up. You can argue that more ice-time could be better sure. But acting like Julien's nothing but a fool when the kid's getting better and he's seeing more ice (albeit gradually) is just a bit much.

Kid came off an improbably solid rookie season (most, if not all, thought he'd be in Finland). He's slowly improving and he's slowly getting more ice time he's 19. This is not exactly meltdown time. The fact that CJ's been almost uniformly lambasted for KK's handling is rather odd. With Mete and Suzuki's usage you can't say there's a young player bias you'd have to actually purport a KK bias which seems bizarrely tin foil hat but whatever.

 

[Frank Drebin]

It's Julien's fault that Kotkaneimi was 18th in rookie ice time and not top 5. Kotkaniemi would of had a 80 pt season for sure if Julien gave him that ice time. And Kotkaniemi would of not struggled at all playing against other top 6 talent at center who are more physically stronger

I have to correct that, the filter didn't update.

Only 16 players met the criteria of being a forward, a rookie, and 65 games played. Of that list, Kotkaniemi was the 10th most utilized of 16 rookies.

Of that list, only 3/16 averaged more than 15:00 a night (Petterson, White, Tkachuk)

 

[Habs Halifax]

I have to correct that, the filter didn't update.

Only 16 players met the criteria of being a forward, a rookie, and 65 games played. Of that list, Kotkaniemi was the 10th most utilized of 16 rookies.

Of that list, only 3/16 averaged more than 15:00 a night (Petterson, White, Tkachuk)

All older than Kotkaniemi as well.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Kotkaniemi is too physically weak to handle big minutes, unlike Elias "man-mountain" Pettersson.

More than 15 minutes for a rookie is an exception.

He's a 3rd overall pick that excelled as the youngest player in the NHL last year and had the 7th highest scoring season for an 18 year old center in the cap era. He's an exceptional player and you make exceptions for those.

Again, other teams seem to have no trouble making exceptions for their blue chip prospects. No, the Rangers aren't giving Filip Chytil top line minutes but they are for Kakko. Senators didn't give Colin White top line minutes from day one but they did for Tkachuk.

 

[Mrb1p]

It's Julien's fault that Kotkaneimi was 18th in rookie ice time and not top 5. Kotkaniemi would of had a 80 pt season for sure if Julien gave him that ice time. And Kotkaniemi would of not struggled at all playing against other top 6 talent at center who are more physically stronger

Nice, another useless post, as if any of this was said even once in here.

NHL ice time among rookie forwards from last season, minimum 65 games played.

Out of 105 rookies, Kotka was the 18th most utilized.

NHL.com - Stats

Only 3 players from the 2018 draft met that criteria - Tkachuk, Svech, and Kotka.

There was only 21 rookies who played 65 games or more last year. And Kotkaniemi fell to 14.

Note that the highest pedigree rookies, players picked in the top 10, all played more than 14 minutes, except Mittlestatd and Kotkaniemi.

Pettersson, Heiskanen, Svechnikov, Tkachuk.... All played over 15 minutes.


But feel free to compare Kotkaniemi to Matthieu Joseph anytime, it paints a nice picture.

 

[ECWHSWI]

He's improving and his ice-time is going up. You can argue that more ice-time could be better sure. But acting like Julien's nothing but a fool when the kid's getting better and he's seeing more ice (albeit gradually) is just a bit much.

Kid came off an improbably solid rookie season (most, if not all, thought he'd be in Finland). He's slowly improving and he's slowly getting more ice time he's 19. This is not exactly meltdown time. The fact that CJ's been almost uniformly lambasted for KK's handling is rather odd. With Mete and Suzuki's usage you can't say there's a young player bias you'd have to actually purport a KK bias which seems bizarrely tin foil hat but whatever.

least TOI so far this season was vs Blues... so...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nice, another useless post, as if any of this was said even once in here.

Is sarcasm not allowed?

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

least TOI so far this season was vs Blues... so...

ah that's right. my bad. I thought his ES ice time went up. Two games before we're higher than the previous games so I'll see where he's trending. Do you have his special teams ice times?

 

[ryan callahan]

**** it I'll say it Kotkaniemi is really overrated on these boards. He's a really good defensive and possession forward but struggles offensively at times and there is some nights where he is really slow as molasses skating wise. For now 13-15 minutes is fine for him, especially on a deep offensive team like the Habs.

 

[ECWHSWI]

ah that's right. my bad. I thought his ES ice time went up. Two games before we're higher than the previous games so I'll see where he's trending. Do you have his special teams ice times?

nah, just quickly looked in nhl site.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I really don't think he would have struggled in the top 6 last year (or that he'd struggle this year). I get that line matching is important and all but in this era with teams running 3-4 skilled scoring lines it's not like the NHL 3rd lines he faced were chopped liver.

His defensive game is orders of magnitude better than Domi so I'm not sure why we should expect Kotkaniemi to get run over when Domi doesn't.

 

[Mrb1p]

He's improving and his ice-time is going up. You can argue that more ice-time could be better sure. But acting like Julien's nothing but a fool when the kid's getting better and he's seeing more ice (albeit gradually) is just a bit much.

Kid came off an improbably solid rookie season (most, if not all, thought he'd be in Finland). He's slowly improving and he's slowly getting more ice time he's 19. This is not exactly meltdown time. The fact that CJ's been almost uniformly lambasted for KK's handling is rather odd. With Mete and Suzuki's usage you can't say there's a young player bias you'd have to actually purport a KK bias which seems bizarrely tin foil hat but whatever.

What is the explication then ? Why is Kotkaniemi not seeing any PP time ? Why is he playing the least of all forwards (Or 2nd least, depending on the night ?)

It can't be because he's a rookie
It can't be because of his age
It can't be because he's not good enough
It can't be because he's too weak
It can't be because there's no TOI available
It can't be because he's finnish
It can't be because he's bad defensively

So what is it ? Aside from clear favoritism towards his plugs, that is.


And here's KKs TOI since he got benched last year
12:24 with a total of 1:29 seconds on the PP in 10 games

Heres before that
13:59 with 2:00 of PP toi on average

Heh, I guess its not exactly going up, heh ? Thats why everyones worried.

All older than Kotkaniemi as well.

Yes, Kotkaniemi is the oyungest player in that draft, no shit.

Maybe we should look a the 2019 draftees playing more minutes than him ?
Kakko, Hughes, Heinola all playing more than him ?

Spin the wheel of excuses, no worries you guys love Julien so much.

 

[ECWHSWI]

More than 15 minutes for a rookie is an exception.

as I wrote earlier :
Brock Boeser 1st season 17:30 TOI/GP
Elias Petterson 1st season he averaged 18:14
Clayton Keller averaged 18:05 in his first season
Jack Eichel averaged 19:07 in his first as well
Sean Monahan 15:59 his first season
Johnny Gaudreau 17:43 in his first year
Jeff Skinner 16:44
Sebastian Aho 16:47
Landeskog 18:37
Pierre-Luc Dubois 16:38

and the list goes on and on and on and on and...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes, Kotkaniemi is the oyungest player in that draft, no ****.

Maybe we should look a the 2019 draftees playing more minutes than him ?
Kakko, Hughes, Heinola all playing more than him ?

Spin the wheel of excuses, no worries you guys love Julien so much.

I will admit, I do trust Julien and his coaching staff more than I trust you.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I really don't think he would have struggled in the top 6 last year (or that he'd struggle this year). I get that line matching is important and all but in this era with teams running 3-4 skilled scoring lines it's not like the NHL 3rd lines he faced were chopped liver.

His defensive game is orders of magnitude better than Domi so I'm not sure why we should expect Kotkaniemi to get run over when Domi doesn't.

Kotkaniemi clearly struggled down the stretch when the competition got higher. We can't have spoiled kids. We need them to earn it and that is good development.

Let him stay on his progressive curve cause he shows flashes of brilliance but it's not frequent enough to promote him yet.

 

[Mrb1p]

**** it I'll say it Kotkaniemi is really overrated on these boards. He's a really good defensive and possession forward but struggles offensively at times and there is some nights where he is really slow as molasses skating wise. For now 13-15 minutes is fine for him, especially on a deep offensive team like the Habs.

Yeah, and how in hell could he ever get better at that, I really wonder ? Probably by playing lesss and less and not having a second more on the PP!

Also, the Habs are not a deep offensive team, theyre pretty much the exact opposite, theres two first liners, two 2nd liners and a bunch of bottom sixers. Don't mistake quantity for quality.

 

[Mrb1p]

I will admit, I do trust Julien and his coaching staff more than I trust you.

Yeah, trust these guys. Soon enough we'll be lamenting our 27th year without a cup or our 4th year without POs... Oh wait.

Kotkaniemi clearly struggled down the stretch when the competition got higher. We can't have spoiled kids. We need them to earn it and that is good development

Danault struggled even more than Kotkaniemi down the stretch, he got compeltely destroyed by his opposition, but I guess that doesn't work for him.

 

[Playmaker09]

I really don't think he would have struggled in the top 6 last year (or that he'd struggle this year). I get that line matching is important and all but in this era with teams running 3-4 skilled scoring lines it's not like the NHL 3rd lines he faced were chopped liver.

His defensive game is orders of magnitude better than Domi so I'm not sure why we should expect Kotkaniemi to get run over when Domi doesn't.

I've noticed other coaches have already been matching up their top lines vs KK on the road this year and he's only been on the ice for 1 GA.

Meanwhile, that Brayden Schenn goal with acres of space in the middle of the slot last game doesn't happen with KK on the ice instead of Domi.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah, and how in hell could he ever get better at that, I really wonder ? Probably by playing lesss and less and not having a second more on the PP!

Also, the Habs are not a deep offensive team, theyre pretty much the exact opposite, theres two first liners, two 2nd liners and a bunch of bottom sixers. Don't mistake quantity for quality.

Habs are not a 100% rebuilding team and we have zero room for learning on the job. How do you not get that?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah, trust these guys. Soon enough we'll be lamenting our 27th year without a cup or our 4th year without POs... Oh wait.

Danault struggled even more than Kotkaniemi down the stretch, he got compeltely destroyed by his opposition, but I guess that doesn't work for him.

Danault had 20 pts in his last 30 games bud. Do you have evidence of how Danault got "completely destroyed" down the stretch? I'd like to see it.

 

[ryan callahan]

Yeah, and how in hell could he ever get better at that, I really wonder ? Probably by playing lesss and less and not having a second more on the PP!

Also, the Habs are not a deep offensive team, theyre pretty much the exact opposite, theres two first liners, two 2nd liners and a bunch of bottom sixers. Don't mistake quantity for quality.

They got 10 capable top 9 forwards, Thompson and an AHLer (right now) in Suzuki/Cousins. Habs aren't a superstar driven team, but a deep team capable of getting offensive from every line. Also, KK plays with our second best winger, so it's not like he is given George Parros and Raitis Ivanans atm. Also, I could also describe Armia in a similar way (Strong, good possession and defensive forward, struggles offensively at times, somewhat slow), and I haven't seen you cry for Armia.

 

[angusyoung]

as I wrote earlier :
Brock Boeser 1st season 17:30 TOI/GP
Elias Petterson 1st season he averaged 18:14
Clayton Keller averaged 18:05 in his first season
Jack Eichel averaged 19:07 in his first as well
Sean Monahan 15:59 his first season
Johnny Gaudreau 17:43 in his first year
Jeff Skinner 16:44
Sebastian Aho 16:47
Landeskog 18:37
Pierre-Luc Dubois 16:38

and the list goes on and on and on and on and...
Brock Boeser 1st season 17:30 TOI/GP
Elias Petterson 1st season he averaged 18:14
Clayton Keller averaged 18:05 in his first season
Jack Eichel averaged 19:07 in his first as well
Sean Monahan 15:59 his first season
Johnny Gaudreau 17:43 in his first year
Jeff Skinner 16:44
Sebastian Aho 16:47
Landeskog 18:37
Pierre-Luc Dubois 16:38

and the list goes on and on and on and on and...

Yup,they are better than the average rookie no doubt.