Jeff Blashill - Half Season Impression

[DanZ]

You are reaching. The PP under Blashill was the worst it had been in a decade. It is quite reasonable to assume the team saw that as a failure because..well..it was.

The only time our PP was any good since Lidstrom retired was last season. Blashill had the worst group of forwards to work with on the PP since Lidstrom retired.

 

[Henkka]

And who runs the special teams...?

The assistants!

Yeah. Our power-play has been pretty bad for years, only last year was an exception, thanks to Jim Hiller.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Do you place zero blame on the players?

Do you place zero responsibility on Blashill?

 

[Frk It]

Yeah. Our power-play has been pretty bad for years, only last year was an exception, thanks to Jim Hiller.

I imagine the guy will get a head coaching opportunity in the near future. Has a real nice track record running PP's so far.

 

[Heaton]

Do you place zero responsibility on Blashill?

Nice deflection. I've always placed more blame on the players who actually play the game. The coach has influence, but great coaches become great because they have great players.

So again, how much responsibility do you place on the players? 10%? 5%? 95% on coaching? Is Chicago mainly good because of Q? Is Dallas mainly good because of Ruff?

 

[Flowah]

Do you place zero responsibility on Blashill?

Blashill takes responsibility for lines, matchups, who sits, who plays, and some for the play of the roster, some for the PP/PK schemes.

Players take responsibility for execution. Which includes terribad passing, turnovers, never winning a battle, taking penalties.

But it's weird (well not that weird because you're very biased and the polar opposite of objective and fair) that you give no credit to Blashill for the outstanding play of Larkin and Marchenko and Mrazek while you heap the blame of the play of Jurco, Smith, Kindl, Pavel, Kronwall, Zetterberg on his shoulders. And again, while you apparently give Babcock a free pass for not being able to turn Smith, Jurco, and Kindl into good players.

You are still cherry picking with the 5 v5 scoring while attempting to ignore overall scoring is down from 10th to 21st. Way to "shut me down". I know it doesn't really fit your argument but facts are facts.
.

Acknowledge the fact that you were the one who brought up 5v5 scoring first. I addressed it because YOU brought it up. And after I pointed out that our 5v5 scoring is actually better this season you do what? You accuse me of cherry picking? Why? For responding to your incorrect criticism?

(mod)

 

[Flowah]

PP is horrible while he's an assistant... Blashill's fault. PP is horrible while he's the head coach... Blashill's fault.

Blashill a bad coach because:
Bad goal differential at 15th in the league.
Bad 5v5 scoring at 21st in the league.
Couldn't turn Kindl/Smith/Jurco into good players. One might even say Blashill regressed them from their stellar play last season.
Has a terribad PP as head coach running at only 18.2%.
Any years with a bad PP are the fault of head coaches like Blashill.
The declining play of Kronwall, Pavel, and Zetterberg are firmly on his shoulders. Age plays no role.
The incredible play of Larkin, Marzek, and Marchenko are not Blashill's doing.

Babcock is a "vastly superior coach" because:
Great goal differential at 15th best in the league.
Great 5v5 scoring at 23rd in the league.
Kindl/Smith/Jurco were regulars in the lineup last season and had great years.
Had an incredible 18% PP between 2012-2014.
Any years with a bad PP were the faults of assistant coaches like Blashill.

 

[RabidBadger]

At worst I'd say Blash has met expectations...what a nightmare we are living with him as coach!

 

[TheOtherOne]

The guy has no sense of objectivity. He is the personification of double standards. Let us count the ways.

Blashill a bad coach because:
Bad goal differential at 15th in the league.
Bad 5v5 scoring at 21st in the league.
Couldn't turn Kindl/Smith/Jurco into good players. One might even say Blashill regressed them from their stellar play last season.
Has a terribad PP as head coach running at only 18.2%.
Any years with a bad PP are the fault of head coaches like Blashill.
The declining play of Kronwall, Pavel, and Zetterberg are firmly on his shoulders. Age plays no role.
The incredible play of Larkin, Marzek, and Marchenko are not Blashill's doing.

Babcock is a "vastly superior coach" because:
Great goal differential at 15th best in the league.
Great 5v5 scoring at 23rd in the league.
Kindl/Smith/Jurco were regulars in the lineup last season and had great years.
Had an incredible 18% PP between 2012-2014.
Any years with a bad PP were the faults of assistant coaches like Blashill.


It's a joke. He's a joke.

I think he has managed to dumb the entire point down to something like:

Identical team + #1 forward + #1 defenseman + #2 center = lower goal differential

Therefore Blashill is garbage.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Nice deflection. I've always placed more blame on the players who actually play the game. The coach has influence, but great coaches become great because they have great players.

So again, how much responsibility do you place on the players? 10%? 5%? 95% on coaching? Is Chicago mainly good because of Q? Is Dallas mainly good because of Ruff?

Putting at a percentage is very simplistic thinking.

Let's just say if you have a very talented roster and poor coaching you will have no success. This has played out countless times.

A less talented roster with great coaching has a greater chance of success.

Countless times President's trophy teams get trucked in the 1st rd by a "hot" albeit less talented team. In most cases it is because they play an effective system and execute perfectly.

Look at the miracle on ice. Was the US team more talented than the Russian team? Not by any stretch of the imagination. They were very well coached. They had a great system and they bought in.

The 95 Devils? More talented than the record setting 62 win Wings? Nope. Not even close. They played the perfect trap system and executed. Bowman had no answer and they rolled the Wings in 4.

These are just a couple of high profile examples but there are many.

That is why it is ridiculous to say something like "we are one defenceman from a cup". Too many variables for that sort of statement to be remotely close to reality.

Sure you need players who are capable of executing but this is a parity league. Every team has those players.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Usually when one resorts to personal insults it is because they are incapable of supporting their argument. This is a prime example.

I count 8 pages worth of supportive arguments.

Be honest with yourself: Hypothetically, is there any amount of factual evidence you could receive that would change your mind? Or are you completely locked into your opinion with no interest in learning anything?

 

[Actual Thought*]

I count 8 pages worth of supportive arguments.

Be honest with yourself: Hypothetically, is there any amount of factual evidence you could receive that would change your mind? Or are you completely locked into your opinion with no interest in learning anything?

I would happily change my mind if I saw the team playing to a level they should IMO be capable of for a sustained period of time. Given the posts seen here I would say I am the single most likely person here to evolve my opinion. MOD

 

[Actual Thought*]

Datsyuk is on pace for 17 goals over an 82 game season.
Last year he was at a 34 goal pace.

Z on pace for 14, last year 18.

Kronner is on pace for like half as many points as last year.


Richards was never expected to provide tons of scoring for us, he scored 12 goals last year, that doesn't nearly make up for the decline of the players mentioned above. In fact, he's in Steven Weiss' spot, who while sucked still scored 9 goals in 52 games...at best he's a net 0 in terms of goal production from the player he replaced. He was signed cause he's a serviceable vet and we didn't know how long Datsyuk was gonna be out. If you thought any different then you're the only one and you should probably have more reasonable expectations or actually know something about the player. He was a slightly more than lateral move from Weiss on a much better contract.

So that leaves you Larkin and Green to make up for the decline of our 3 vets. Mike Green scores about 10 goals a year...that makes up for about half of Datsyuk's decline in production. So thank god Larkin developed so quickly cause I dunno what we'd do for the other half + Z + Kronner.

Is it inconceivable to you that there is a correlation between production and system?

 

[hyduK]

Is it inconceivable to you that there is a correlation between production and system?

No, I actually watch the games and make an assessment of play not bad entirely off stats and assumptions. And if you did the same you'd see that they've all clearly lost a step. The system doesn't make people skate slow, be weaker on the puck, make more mental mistakes, etc.

 

[Ezekial]

No, I actually watch the games and make an assessment of play not bad entirely off stats and assumptions. And if you did the same you'd see that they've all clearly lost a step. The system doesn't make people skate slow, be weaker on the puck, make more mental mistakes, etc.

Actually, Blashill's system requires Kronwall to become a traffic cone.

 

[Heaton]

Putting at a percentage is very simplistic thinking.

Let's just say if you have a very talented roster and poor coaching you will have no success. This has played out countless times.

A less talented roster with great coaching has a greater chance of success.

Countless times President's trophy teams get trucked in the 1st rd by a "hot" albeit less talented team. In most cases it is because they play an effective system and execute perfectly.

Look at the miracle on ice. Was the US team more talented than the Russian team? Not by any stretch of the imagination. They were very well coached. They had a great system and they bought in.

The 95 Devils? More talented than the record setting 62 win Wings? Nope. Not even close. They played the perfect trap system and executed. Bowman had no answer and they rolled the Wings in 4.

These are just a couple of high profile examples but there are many.

That is why it is ridiculous to say something like "we are one defenceman from a cup". Too many variables for that sort of statement to be remotely close to reality.

Sure you need players who are capable of executing but this is a parity league. Every team has those players.

OK, since you basically didn't say anything in this post. How good SHOULD this team be? Now, please keep in mind this team is virtually identical to last years team but we have older and less capable Z, Datsyuk, and Kronwall.

 

[SirloinUB]

OK, since you basically didn't say anything in this post. How good SHOULD this team be? Now, please keep in mind this team is virtually identical to last years team but we have older and less capable Z, Datsyuk, and Kronwall.

Apparently 7th in a parity driven league is not good enough...

Fire Holland, Blashill and Martin. Trade Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Nyquist, Howard and Kronwall. Call up Callahan, AA, Mantha, Sproul and Coreau. The answers are right in front of our eyes

 

[FlashyG]

The 95 Devils? More talented than the record setting 62 win Wings? Nope. Not even close. They played the perfect trap system and executed. Bowman had no answer and they rolled the Wings in 4.

The 95 Devils didn't beat the record setting 62 win Wings, the Colorado Avalanche did.

The 95 Devils beat the Wings the year before.

 

[RabidBadger]

I'm sure if they have a deep playoff run this year it will be because Blashill did it with Bab's team and Babs would've done so much better with Green, Richards, etc. Basically more arguments that are antithetical for those of us with the need to make sense.

 

[Actual Thought*]

No, I actually watch the games and make an assessment of play not bad entirely off stats and assumptions. And if you did the same you'd see that they've all clearly lost a step. The system doesn't make people skate slow, be weaker on the puck, make more mental mistakes, etc.

I agree Pav looks slower much of the time though he seems to pick it up in spurts such as late in the 3rd last night. I would expect him to get much worse as the season wears on after an off season of being unhealthy. I disagree that Zetterberg and Kronwall look substantially slower than last year. If anything I would say Z looks better than last year. Defensively he has been fantastic.

As for the system making things slower it absolutely can. Players who are not confident in a system often think too much, hesitate to make plays, and make more mental mistakes. This can be as a result of the system being new, the system being bad, or the system being practiced poorly.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I'm sure if they have a deep playoff run this year it will be because Blashill did it with Bab's team and Babs would've done so much better with Green, Richards, etc. Basically more arguments that are antithetical for those of us with the need to make sense.

What happens if he wins a cup? Does babs get 3 cups to his legacy

 

[Red Stanley]

With all these linguistic and intellectual comparisons between the two slogans, nobody has pointed out that Babcock's isn't even a complete sentence. It should read "to whom much is given, much is expected of". Just sayin'.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I agree Pav looks slower much of the time though he seems to pick it up in spurts such as late in the 3rd last night. I would expect him to get much worse as the season wears on after an off season of being unhealthy. I disagree that Zetterberg and Kronwall look substantially slower than last year. If anything I would say Z looks better than last year. Defensively he has been fantastic.

As for the system making things slower it absolutely can. Players who are not confident in a system often think too much, hesitate to make plays, and make more mental mistakes. This can be as a result of the system being new, the system being bad, or the system being practiced poorly.

Kronwall is on pace to have his worst +/- for a single season, and the vast majority of this season has seen him play with the same partner as last season.

You might argue that is because Blashill's system is secretly designed to destroy the Red Wings defense, but when you look at all the other defenseman on the team, their +/- numbers are pretty much the same as they have been the majority of their careers.

Kronwall is old and slow. One would have to be willfully ignorant to try and blame Kronwall's decline on Blashill and his system.

Old and slow Kronwall + Jonathan Pylon = You're gonna have a bad time

 

[Actual Thought*]

Kronwall is on pace to have his worst +/- for a single season, and the vast majority of this season has seen him play with the same partner as last season.

You might argue that is because Blashill's system is secretly designed to destroy the Red Wings defense, but when you look at all the other defenseman on the team, their +/- numbers are pretty much the same as they have been the majority of their careers.

Kronwall is old and slow. One would have to be willfully ignorant to try and blame Kronwall's decline on Blashill and his system.

Old and slow Kronwall + Jonathan Pylon = You're gonna have a bad time

I would be interested in seeing how many minutes he has played with each partner. He has had several I can remember including Green, Kindl, and E. I would also be interested in seeing a game by game track of his +/-. Who was he partnered with when he acquired minuses and were they primarily earlier in the season? He hasn't had a + or a - in his last 5 games. +/- can be a pretty sketchy stat to be "on pace" for especially given the experimental nature of defense pairings so far this year. Jonathon "Pylon" is a plus player thus far as well. Seems odd if were on the ice with Kronner the vast majority of the time.

 

[RabidBadger]

What happens if he wins a cup? Does babs get 3 cups to his legacy

If it's not resolved in 3 games (the opposition forfeits the 4th game) then it is a sucky, pretentious Cup win for Blash. If Toronto ever makes the playoffs they'll cede The Cup to them. Everyone knows what a great playoff coach Babcock is