Player Discussion: Jean-Gabriel Pageau

[SI]

Grubauer? Isn't he a Vezina finalist?

He is a UFA who will be 30 and might get Markstrom $ from somewhere with Makar and landeskog getting paid this year and Mackinnon likely getting north of 10 next season - Grubauer might be the odd man out.

 

[Seph]

Find and point out my post where I said the isles should not have built off last season.
You can't because I didn't make those comments. I said I didn't think the isles are on the same level talent wise, as TB/Colorado and I didn't see them getting past them to win the SC last yr or this yr.

I will agree that Pags has been great for the isles .I am just glad he signed that long-term deal,after the price the isles paid for him.

OK, so then how do you expect us to build off last season without giving up anything value? Especially in a season where our captain and leading goal scorer gets injured.

This refusal to give up assets of value until later on sounds a lot like how Snow liked to operate. And it's a lot of the reason the Islanders stalled out on improving under him.

 

[CREW99AW]

OK, so then how do you expect us to build off last season without giving up anything value? Especially in a season where our captain and leading goal scorer gets injured.

This refusal to give up assets of value until later on sounds a lot like how Snow liked to operate. And it's a lot of the reason the Islanders stalled out on improving under him.

Again. Find my post complaining about giving up a 1st for Palms+ Zajac. You won't find it because I haven't made a post complaining about giving up a 1st for them.

1. I figured when Lee went down that the first would be moved.
2. Scouting services have been saying for a few yrs that the 2021 draft is a weak draft and 2022 strong.

My posts point out that I didn't consider the nyi a SC winner with or without Pags last season. I don't think the on the same talent level as TB/Colorado/Vegas this season.
The weak prospect pool should be a concern because quality,cost controlled prospects help keep a SC window open and can be used a trade assets.

Hoffman was one of the last big names to sign this past off-season. I think it was Friedman who reported the isles had been in on Hoffman,tried to free up cap space for him. A deeper prospect pool would have allowed Lou to attach sweeteners to dump unwanted contracts and sign Hoffman.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Reading this brings me back to Jack “I don’t match lines” Capuano rolling out Hickey-Strait at home against Ovechkin.

 

[Throttle]

Again. Find my post complaining about giving up a 1st for Palms+ Zajac. You won't find it because I haven't made a post complaining about giving up a 1st for them.

1. I figured when Lee went down that the first would be moved.
2. Scouting services have been saying for a few yrs that the 2021 draft is a weak draft and 2022 strong.

My posts point out that I didn't consider the nyi a SC winner with or without Pags last season. I don't think the on the same talent level as TB/Colorado/Vegas this season.
The weak prospect pool should be a concern because quality,cost controlled prospects help keep a SC window open and can be used a trade assets.

Hoffman was one of the last big names to sign this past off-season. I think it was Friedman who reported the isles had been in on Hoffman,tried to free up cap space for him. A deeper prospect pool would have allowed Lou to attach sweeteners to dump unwanted contracts and sign Hoffman.

OK, this is all about you wanting things built a certain way with certain players.
You are attracted to what appear to be shiny sexy toys like TB/COL/Vegas. That's fine. Why is COL a 'contender'? They haven't gotten out of the 2nd round in THREE years and seem to lose game 7s routinely. The Isles lost to the SC champion last year and will play them again this year. They have been steadily going DEEPER into the playoffs year-over-year. And Vegas has only gone backwards since their Cup Final appearance. Kinda funny on 'talent level' vs. actual performance.
Hoffman? Huh, is this like the people that wanted Hall so bad and he was the 'one we needed' - errr, no.

 

[MJF]

OK, this is all about you wanting things built a certain way with certain players.
You are attracted to what appear to be shiny sexy toys like TB/COL/Vegas. That's fine. Why is COL a 'contender'? They haven't gotten out of the 2nd round in THREE years and seem to lose game 7s routinely

These are the key sentences.

 

[Seph]

Again. Find my post complaining about giving up a 1st for Palms+ Zajac. You won't find it because I haven't made a post complaining about giving up a 1st for them.

1. I figured when Lee went down that the first would be moved.
2. Scouting services have been saying for a few yrs that the 2021 draft is a weak draft and 2022 strong.

My posts point out that I didn't consider the nyi a SC winner with or without Pags last season. I don't think the on the same talent level as TB/Colorado/Vegas this season.
The weak prospect pool should be a concern because quality,cost controlled prospects help keep a SC window open and can be used a trade assets.

Hoffman was one of the last big names to sign this past off-season. I think it was Friedman who reported the isles had been in on Hoffman,tried to free up cap space for him. A deeper prospect pool would have allowed Lou to attach sweeteners to dump unwanted contracts and sign Hoffman.

So if you have no problem with moving the 1sts for Pageau or for Palmieiri/Zajac, why are you complaining about our prospect pool in a Pageau thread? I don't really see the relevance otherwise. And what moves do you feel should have been made to improve the prospect pool so it wasn't the issue you see currently?

 

[doublechili]

It's good to have some prospects to replace aging players or to be cheaper alternative to expiring/renewing contracts, but otherwise what holes exactly do we need to fill if you look at even a 5 or 6 year horizon? C, wing, D, goal? All looks pretty solid to me. We have picks. We'll fill the cupboard. Trust the scouts to find the right guys, and as/more importantly, develop the guys you draft properly.

 

[SI]

Again. Find my post complaining about giving up a 1st for Palms+ Zajac. You won't find it because I haven't made a post complaining about giving up a 1st for them.

1. I figured when Lee went down that the first would be moved.
2. Scouting services have been saying for a few yrs that the 2021 draft is a weak draft and 2022 strong.

My posts point out that I didn't consider the nyi a SC winner with or without Pags last season. I don't think the on the same talent level as TB/Colorado/Vegas this season.
The weak prospect pool should be a concern because quality,cost controlled prospects help keep a SC window open and can be used a trade assets.

Hoffman was one of the last big names to sign this past off-season. I think it was Friedman who reported the isles had been in on Hoffman,tried to free up cap space for him. A deeper prospect pool would have allowed Lou to attach sweeteners to dump unwanted contracts and sign Hoffman.

CREW,

You're reaching my man.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree with it.
Pageau > Hoffman. You can see that, right?

Toronto, Edmonton, Colorado are 3 teams who pay dearly for the likes of JGP - it is the exact type of player those teams need.

You're looking at the talent on the page and overlooking the actual success on the ice. This team is currently a SC contender. Forget about how long the window is - stay present - their window is now. And in a couple of years when Bailey, Nelson, Eberle, are pushing their mid 30's then they may have to retool to extend their window.
And if they get past the Lightning somehow- they will be in the SC finals!
Pageau is a BIG reason for that - that and that alone is enough to say the Isles win that trade hands down - it no question.

Again, I understand that you feel signing him to a long-term contract (which to me was a no-brainer, since he was 27) makes you feel like it handcuffed the team to add more highly talented players, but who was available? Hoffman? I think everyone on this board would rather have JGP. Again, It may have prevented them from adding another top 6 and it may have cost them Toews, but that had more to do with the flat cap, because everything gets shutdown 2 weeks after the deal is made and Daly announces a. potential 85-88 million dollar cap.

And if not, then I think Lou would still have made the deal and contract.

 

[SI]

Oh, and Colorado loses again in the second round with all that talent on the page.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree with it.

It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop... ever, until you are dead!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Pageau is so valuable. He will need to be on his 2 way play best again against Point, Kucherov, Palat. The NJ connection of Palmeiri and Zajac will need to come up big again this series. On that point, where would the Isles be without Pageau and Palmieri right now? I am afraid to guess. ~draft picks!

 

[CREW99AW]

OK, this is all about you wanting things built a certain way with certain players.
You are attracted to what appear to be shiny sexy toys like TB/COL/Vegas. That's fine. Why is COL a 'contender'? They haven't gotten out of the 2nd round in THREE years and seem to lose game 7s routinely. The Isles lost to the SC champion last year and will play them again this year. They have been steadily going DEEPER into the playoffs year-over-year. And Vegas has only gone backwards since their Cup Final appearance. Kinda funny on 'talent level' vs. actual performance.
Hoffman? Huh, is this like the people that wanted Hall so bad and he was the 'one we needed' - errr, no.

I seem to recall TB going thru some disappointing, playoff growing pains before finally winning it all.
Maybe instead of worrying about Colorado's growing pains, nyi fans should worry about not being able to get past TB,while the isles are in cap hell once again+ have a weak prospect pool with few enticing trade chips to attach as sweeteners.

 

[CREW99AW]

CREW,

You're reaching my man.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree with it.
Pageau > Hoffman. You can see that, right?

Toronto, Edmonton, Colorado are 3 teams who pay dearly for the likes of JGP - it is the exact type of player those teams need.

You're looking at the talent on the page and overlooking the actual success on the ice. This team is currently a SC contender. Forget about how long the window is - stay present - their window is now. And in a couple of years when Bailey, Nelson, Eberle, are pushing their mid 30's then they may have to retool to extend their window.
And if they get past the Lightning somehow- they will be in the SC finals!
Pageau is a BIG reason for that - that and that alone is enough to say the Isles win that trade hands down - it no question.

Again, I understand that you feel signing him to a long-term contract (which to me was a no-brainer, since he was 27) makes you feel like it handcuffed the team to add more highly talented players, but who was available? Hoffman? I think everyone on this board would rather have JGP. Again, It may have prevented them from adding another top 6 and it may have cost them Toews, but that had more to do with the flat cap, because everything gets shutdown 2 weeks after the deal is made and Daly announces a. potential 85-88 million dollar cap.

And if not, then I think Lou would still have made the deal and contract.

This wasn't a case of Lou wanting Pags OR Hall . He wanted both,but the isles cap crunch and lack of quality,cheap trade chips stopped him from his plan of landing both.
Isles got Pags at the last TDL and the isles pursuit of Hoffman was reported just this past off-season,days before the season started. If was surprising because the isles had been trying to dump salary to extend Barzal.

Was Pags huge in the Boston serie Yes. I don't think they get past the Bruins without him shutting down Bergeron.

Am I expecting a SC from this yr's group? No. I don't see them getting past a healthy TB team and wouldn't bet my rent money on them getting past Vegas.
So, while I will enjoy this yr's playoff run,I will also keep in mind the messy off-season,cap crunch that continues to hold this organization back.

 

[MetsJetsIsles22]

This wasn't a case of Lou wanting Pags OR Hall . He wanted both,but the isles cap crunch and lack of quality,cheap trade chips stopped him from his plan of landing both.
Isles got Pags at the last TDL and the isles pursuit of Hoffman was reported just this past off-season,days before the season started. If was surprising because the isles had been trying to dump salary to extend Barzal.

Was Pags huge in the Boston serie Yes. I don't think they get past the Bruins without him shutting down Bergeron.

Am I expecting a SC from this yr's group? No. I don't see them getting past a healthy TB team and wouldn't bet my rent money on them getting past Vegas.
So, while I will enjoy this yr's playoff run,I will also keep in mind the messy off-season,cap crunch that continues to hold this organization back.

most rational people will likely agree with you. however, there is a reason to actually play the games....btw who expected montreal to be here?
last year is over and done with, but i am a firm believer that NYI vs TB series is very different if the isles had a day or 2 more rest prior to game one- not saying we win, but that was a close series for the most part outside of game one.

TB is a very scary team- they already won on paper- so did the pens and bruins...sunday we begin to play in person.

 

[Throttle]

I seem to recall TB going thru some disappointing, playoff growing pains before finally winning it all.
Maybe instead of worrying about Colorado's growing pains, nyi fans should worry about not being able to get past TB,while the isles are in cap hell once again+ have a weak prospect pool with few enticing trade chips to attach as sweeteners.

Nah, I’ll watch the Isles go back to back semifinals at a minimum with the team they have that has improved year over year under Lou. Enjoy staring at cap friendly and future watch.

 

[SI]

This wasn't a case of Lou wanting Pags OR Hall . He wanted both,but the isles cap crunch and lack of quality,cheap trade chips stopped him from his plan of landing both.
Isles got Pags at the last TDL and the isles pursuit of Hoffman was reported just this past off-season,days before the season started. If was surprising because the isles had been trying to dump salary to extend Barzal.

Was Pags huge in the Boston serie Yes. I don't think they get past the Bruins without him shutting down Bergeron.

Am I expecting a SC from this yr's group? No. I don't see them getting past a healthy TB team and wouldn't bet my rent money on them getting past Vegas.
So, while I will enjoy this yr's playoff run,I will also keep in mind the messy off-season,cap crunch that continues to hold this organization back.

Even if Isles and Barzal wanted a long term deal with the flat cap players of his like are ALL signing bridge deals - Tkachuk, Point, Laine as will Pettersson this offseason. So, it doesn’t need to feel so catastrophic - they got him signed on a 3-year bridge deal.

they did try to move Hickey and Komarov before the season - probably to add someone like Hoffman, but they couldn’t and they have reaped the benefits since Leo has played a major role this year’s success.

Hoffman would have been a 1 year deal anyway and the Isles would be in the same situation. And without pageau they’d be looking for someone to fill that role too.

 

[Seph]

I seem to recall TB going thru some disappointing, playoff growing pains before finally winning it all.
Maybe instead of worrying about Colorado's growing pains, nyi fans should worry about not being able to get past TB,while the isles are in cap hell once again+ have a weak prospect pool with few enticing trade chips to attach as sweeteners.

So, when the Avs lose twice straight in the 2nd round it's just growing pains, but if the Isles lose twice straight in the 3rd round it means we are less of a contender than the Avs?

Also, the Isles aren't really in cap hell. With the Kraken, we can likely free up enough space this summer to keep our RFAs and hope for next steps by Dobson/Wahlstrom/Sorokin to help us improve next season. And after next season, we have at least 30 mil in cap space available. Seems very easily managed.

 

[SI]

This wasn't a case of Lou wanting Pags OR Hall . He wanted both,but the isles cap crunch and lack of quality,cheap trade chips stopped him from his plan of landing both.
Isles got Pags at the last TDL and the isles pursuit of Hoffman was reported just this past off-season,days before the season started. If was surprising because the isles had been trying to dump salary to extend Barzal.

Was Pags huge in the Boston serie Yes. I don't think they get past the Bruins without him shutting down Bergeron.

Am I expecting a SC from this yr's group? No. I don't see them getting past a healthy TB team and wouldn't bet my rent money on them getting past Vegas.
So, while I will enjoy this yr's playoff run,I will also keep in mind the messy off-season,cap crunch that continues to hold this organization back.

back to back conference finals - how is this organization being held back?

 

[doublechili]

Zajac-Pageau-Palmieri

I know they may not be together long term, but can we call them the Zipp Line for now? It's an acronym, and they zip up the opposition's top line.

If it's a really bad idea, you won't hurt my feelings by saying so.

 

[CREW99AW]

back to back conference finals - how is this organization being held back?

The veteran team that has been not been able to get past TB,is facing another cap crunch and had a poor prospect pool. So, not only is there no potential elite, cost controlled player making his way thru the system,but the weak prospect pool makes it harder to attach attractive sweeteners to bad contracts.

 

[Instant]

The veteran team that has been not been able to get past TB,is facing another cap crunch and had a poor prospect pool. So, not only is there no potential elite, cost controlled player making his way thru the system,but the weak prospect pool makes it harder to attach attractive sweeteners to bad contracts.

Lol what?

Team "has not been able to get past TB"? Really? Haven't they played each other in the playoffs exactly... once? And yeah, they might lose again this year, sure. We don't know that yet. But even if that happens, it's fine. We have a young core of players that are getting the experience and being battle tested. No one wins it all just like that - it wouldn't be worth much.

But hey, we have a poor prospect pool, so instead of enjoying all the winning and the process and the growing pains, let's trade Barzal, Beau and Sorokin for picks and prospects, tank for like 5 years, get some young players, surround them with talent and vet presence and then when they start being good let's do it all over again, because we will have weak prospect pool and will have to pay them all. You convinced me. This is the way I want this team to go, to be a constant disappointment.

 

[MJF]

The veteran team that has been not been able to get past TB,is facing another cap crunch and had a poor prospect pool. So, not only is there no potential elite, cost controlled player making his way thru the system,but the weak prospect pool makes it harder to attach attractive sweeteners to bad contracts.

The Islanders under this coaching staff/management has played the Lightning 1 time and lost in 6 games. Are you counting the times we lost to TB with our other coaches and player cores?

 

[MJF]

But hey, we have a poor prospect pool, so instead of enjoying all the winning and the process and the growing pains, let's trade Barzal, Beau and Sorokin for picks and prospects, tank for like 5 years, get some young players, surround them with talent and vet presence and then when they start being good let's do it all over again, because we will have weak prospect pool and will have to pay them all. You convinced me. This is the way I want this team to go, to be a constant disappointment.

Well we'd better win the cup now because in 4 weeks we're screwed.

For the record, with the cap crunch coming next month I trust Lou Lamoriello and his staff to fix whatever has to be fixed on our roster. He will not destroy the franchise and leave us lost in the woods for the next 20 years

 

[The Winter Soldier]

JGP and Palmieri seem to fit like a glove together. They are the 3rd line that plays like the #1 line. I would love to see Palmieri stapled to JGP for the next 5 years on his next contract. This is looking ahead but I think we can do this if Eberle is exposed or traded. Wally can take up the Right wing on Barzal's line with Lee next season. That would be an awesome line up.