Injury Report: Jakub Vrana out 4 months

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I really hope people stop feeding into his merry-go round of bullshit before the regular season starts. I really don't look forward to GDT's being polluted with half arguments with blocked people because hf's set up freaking sucks.

Yep. No worries here. I wanted to give it one last go around in the spirit of the new season. And it was even worse than before.

what I want to know is how on Earth 50 people liked his baseless doomer bullhonkey

 

[ricky0034]

There's almost zero chance we're "winning rounds" in 3 years. Players like Edvinsson and Cossa most likely won't even be in the league much less be developed and rolling.
Trading for a center means giving up significant assets we don't have.
Top quality players almost never hit free agency and Yzerman won't be competitive in signing one if they did.

why do you think Edvinsson won't be in the league in 3 years? his D+1 just started and he's already a top pairing guy in the SHL

honestly he's a Goalie so there's a lot more uncertainty and a lot more potential for slowness there but Cossa probably is too if his development goes at all well, he'll be in the AHL next year barring some major regression so being on the team in 3 years would just mean that he doesn't spend more than 2 years there which I don't think is a particularly unreasonable expectation for him

 

[jkutswings]

what I want to know is how on Earth 50 people liked his baseless doomer bullhonkey

Considering how mankind has handled world events over the last 18 months, I don't know that anything is out of the realm of possibility these days.

But now that I look at the term again, Doomer Bullhonkey sounds like a great album title for an alternative rock band. I can see Beavis and Butt-Head making fun of it now...

 

[Winger98]

I think you can make the argument with how perfect McDonagh fit in that Stamkos is sitting six these days... Man the depth that he built and acquired around Stamkos and Hedman was impressive. I hope Stevie can pull off something similar here, tall order to do that twice.

I think my question is if any club will be able to pull off the sort of roster Tampa has iced the past couple of years? I mean, part of it was getting those guys, but another part was a weird combination of luck and circumstances. Seasons were artificially shortened, guys had injuries whose timelines allowed for the max abuse of LTIR, etc. We saw this off-season that Tampa is already having to jettison a fair bit of their depth (Goodrow, Coleman, Gourde, Johnson).

I'm just not sold that we're going to continue seeing a need to have so much top5 talent and so much next tier talent on the same team to win. I still think we're going to see skill levels across the league continue to flatten a bit with some teams focusing on high end guys and other teams focusing on greater depth of second tier guys. I also think we're going to see coaching grow in importance a bit.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

why do you think Edvinsson won't be in the league in 3 years? his D+1 just started and he's already a top pairing guy in the SHL

honestly he's a Goalie so there's a lot more uncertainty and a lot more potential for slowness there but Cossa probably is too if his development goes at all well, he'll be in the AHL next year barring some major regression so being on the team in 3 years would just mean that he doesn't spend more than 2 years there which I don't think is a particularly unreasonable expectation for him

Unless they change the agreement with the CHL and there were some exceptions made during Covid but I think they will return to the status quo here, but Cossa won't be in the AHL next year. He isn't eligible to play in that league.

I think Cossa was a good pick. Along with Ned we did a lot to shore up the net. Yzerman sunk some big assets just like he did in Tampa. He believes in the importance of that position clearly in terms of his history in the league. But he is going to take some time, he needs to work on his game all goalies have a lot of work to do. We might see him faster, but if he isn't here until 21 or 22 that won't surprise me. It doesn't mean he cannot be a top 10 #1 goalie for a decent chunk of time. We can hope for more or quicker, but my expectation is really just be here at some point before 2025 and be the front line #1 stater to close the last bunch of years of the decade.

I get teat the board is gun-shy after McCollum, Cossa is a different pedigree of player people need to remember that.

We have a lot of sliding pieces at this point. Even a guy like Vrana isn't in a certain place right now in the picture. He might help, he still might be flipped, another reason this injury stinks. One thing Yzerman has never been as a manager is afraid of movement. I still think we have a shocking trade or two here in the next year.

 

[GoBoltz56]

but Cossa won't be in the AHL next year. He isn't eligible to play in that league.

Yes he is. Based on age/birth date.

 

[Hen Kolland]

he also claims to want more 1st round picks but complains about Mantha for Vrana being a downgrade

like....yeah how else are you gonna get extra 1st round picks?

Probably thinks the draft picks were awarded for the Panik contract

 

[ricky0034]

Unless they change the agreement with the CHL and there were some exceptions made during Covid but I think they will return to the status quo here, but Cossa won't be in the AHL next year. He isn't eligible to play in that league.

I think Cossa was a good pick. Along with Ned we did a lot to shore up the net. Yzerman sunk some big assets just like he did in Tampa. He believes in the importance of that position clearly in terms of his history in the league. But he is going to take some time, he needs to work on his game all goalies have a lot of work to do. We might see him faster, but if he isn't here until 21 or 22 that won't surprise me. It doesn't mean he cannot be a top 10 #1 goalie for a decent chunk of time. We can hope for more or quicker, but my expectation is really just be here at some point before 2025 and be the front line #1 stater to close the last bunch of years of the decade.

I get teat the board is gun-shy after McCollum, Cossa is a different pedigree of player people need to remember that.

We have a lot of sliding pieces at this point. Even a guy like Vrana isn't in a certain place right now in the picture. He might help, he still might be flipped, another reason this injury stinks. One thing Yzerman has never been as a manager is afraid of movement. I still think we have a shocking trade or two here in the next year.

i'm pretty sure he is actually

it's tough to find sources on the specifics of this but the rule appears to be 20 years old by December 31st of the season which would make him eligible by about a month next year

NHL/CHL Development Rule
There is an agreement in place between the National Hockey League and the Canadian Hockey League (also referred to as “major junior”, which includes the Ontario Hockey League, Western Hockey League and Quebec Major Junior Hockey League) in which the main purpose is to protect the competitiveness and level of play within the three major junior leagues.
The rule states that all players that are drafted from CHL teams are ineligible to play in the professional minor leagues (meaning the AHL and ECHL) until they are 20 years old by December 31st of that season. By implementing this agreement, 18 and 19-year old prospects who have been drafted to the NHL and are under contract must either play in the NHL or go back to major junior. This is the reason why European players and some college players can play in the AHL before they turn 20, but North American players cannot.

Learning the AHL: Development - Belleville Senators

 

[Gniwder]

Obviously symbolism as opposed to literalism. We need a big boost draft that gets things moving as opposed to getting one player each year.

You're stating the obvious. That's what every team is trying to do.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

You're stating the obvious. That's what every team is trying to do.

That is the GM's responsibility. If Yzerman is as great as people seem to believe then he should have no problem. Thus far I don't think he's living up to his billing.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

why do you think Edvinsson won't be in the league in 3 years? his D+1 just started and he's already a top pairing guy in the SHL

honestly he's a Goalie so there's a lot more uncertainty and a lot more potential for slowness there but Cossa probably is too if his development goes at all well, he'll be in the AHL next year barring some major regression so being on the team in 3 years would just mean that he doesn't spend more than 2 years there which I don't think is a particularly unreasonable expectation for him

Maybe Edvinsson makes the league within 3 years. Maybe not. He's certainly noy going to be fully developed and leading the team to playoff series victories.
I see alot of people draw up a roster based on names as opposed to based on development. Just because you have a kid on your team doesn't mean instant success. Most defenseman need 200-250 games to "get it". So even if Edvinsson makes the team in 2 years it doesn't mean we're just rolling teams in the playoffs. We are 7-10 years away from that if we get lucky.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

i'm pretty sure he is actually

it's tough to find sources on the specifics of this but the rule appears to be 20 years old by December 31st of the season which would make him eligible by about a month next year



Learning the AHL: Development - Belleville Senators

My bad, I didn't realize he was a fall date, guess I have ignored that part of it. Then he will do what Zadina did, I guess that is good news, accelerating goalies is always kind of dangerous though. Curious how they handle him, they need to do a better job providing an environment tailored to his development. I think we have heard they are making changes, curious how it plays out, but I agree with Yzerman going after Cossa. Hopefully he is a piece, we need a bunch to be good again.

 

[Gniwder]

That is the GM's responsibility. If Yzerman is as great as people seem to believe then he should have no problem. Thus far I don't think he's living up to his billing.

You really don't seem to know much about hockey, this isn't the NFL or NHL where they're drafting players out of college. They're drafting 18 YO kids, and Stevie's only been around for 3 drafts. His first big pick is playing this season.

If the team sucks right now, it's an indictment on Kenny's drafting, not Stevie's.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

You really don't seem to know much about hockey, this isn't the NFL or NHL where they're drafting players out of college. They're drafting 18 YO kids, and Stevie's only been around for 3 drafts. His first big pick is playing this season.

If the team sucks right now, it's an indictment on Kenny's drafting, not Stevie's.

If it's good credit Yzerman. If it's bad blame Holland. Confirmation bias much?

 

[Gniwder]

If it's good credit Yzerman. If it's bad blame Holland. Confirmation bias much?

Not really, all I said is it's too early to judge Stevie's picks. I like Sieder, Edvinsson, Sebrango, and Johansson. I'm not really sure on the wingers and the goalie.

Stevie averaged about 2 good picks per draft in TB, I'm not expecting much better in Detroit. He's a good GM, but he's not a miracle worker. For some reason you're whining because he hasn't produced a miracle in 3 years, lol.

 

[SoupNazi]

I've been on the road for well over a week, get home today, have time to check in and see this.

 

[WF19]

Pretty sure Leddy will stick around after this year and im okay with that. He can still get a nice contract from the Wings while the young guys are still in ELC's

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If it's good credit Yzerman. If it's bad blame Holland. Confirmation bias much?

Real talk… how in the world is THAT the conclusion you pull from @Gniwder’s post?

Hockey isn’t football or basketball. Unless a guy is truly special, he’s not playing in the first year or two after his draft… particularly if you’re drafting him from overseas. In other words, there is a lead time on these guys before you can expect them to play any NHL hockey unless you win the lottery and the lottery pick is a guy with a build and skills on the level of a guy like McDavid or Matthews.

so… the players on the 18-19 Red Wings would most likely be those drafted from 15-16/16-17 and earlier. Yzerman was brought in after the 19 offseason. (sorry, noticed this error in my own post. He was brought in at the close of the 18-19 season, not that offseason)

So, just based off of historical advancement of players… none of his draftees would have been likely to play in 19-20. 20-21 was a shitshow of a year and if not for Seider being locked to Rogle by his contract, he may have gotten a cup of coffee. 21-22 literally just happened.

So if you’re focusing on the draft… 21-22 is the earliest Yzrrman’s highly drafted guys (from Germany and Sweden, so overseas) might play and guess what…. Seider is on the opening night roster and Raymond has a damn good opportunity.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

If it's good credit Yzerman. If it's bad blame Holland. Confirmation bias much?

I'd be willing to bet serious money that Detroit will win another cup before Edmonton does

 

[jkutswings]

I'd be willing to bet serious money that Detroit will win another cup before Edmonton does

Until I see Connor McDavid learn how to play playoff hockey, my money is still on him NEVER hoisting the Cup.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

[MOD]
Says the guy who thinks Edmonton isn't way ahead of Detroit.

 

[jkutswings]

Says the guy who thinks Edmonton isn't way ahead of Detroit.

Edmonton undoubtedly has more talent on their roster. They also have all the goaltending of a peewee team. The Oilers will be stuck in the 1st/2nd round for another decade at this rate, which will be more than enough time for Detroit to pass them by.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Says the guy who thinks Edmonton isn't way ahead of Detroit.

I'm not debating the talent these teams have on their roster. I'm debating the skill each GM has to build a champion. And in the year 2021, it's not even close.

 

[Winger98]

Edmonton undoubtedly has more talent on their roster. They also have all the goaltending of a peewee team. The Oilers will be stuck in the 1st/2nd round for another decade at this rate, which will be more than enough time for Detroit to pass them by.

If either team makes the playoffs for a ten year stretch, that's a success for either team.

 

[Gniwder]

Real talk… how in the world is THAT the conclusion you pull from @Gniwder’s post?

Really not worth the time to go into a long explanation with this guy, it's very clear he doesn't understand hockey or life in general if he thinks 18 or 19 YO kids are gonna make a profound difference. People like Crosby and SE Hinton (she wrote the book "The Outsiders" when she was 16) are a rare breed, which is why we call them generational talent.

If one person tells you that you're an asshole, it's possible that they're just having a bad day.

If everyone that you interact with thinks you're an asshole, its likely that they are right.

Yeah, not even MBH and I reach 100% hate level, lol.