Value of: Jake Guentzel as a rental

[Cancuks]

Well Horvat, who plays the more important position, got a mid 1st, a cap dump in Beauvillier, and a B prospect in Raty. I would guess Guentzel's value is even less due to cap space around the league this year.
1st + Kuzmenko makes sense. Maybe 1st + Kuzmenko + Klimovich if Rutherford/Allvin are feeling generous. Talk of them giving up Willander and Lekkerimaki is ridiculous based upon how actual NHL trades go down.

 

[Canucks LB]

Jake to Vancouver only makes sense if he’s actually going to stay here.

Not giving up a first, and the one of our better prospects for a rental

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Kuz+ for Guentzel makes sense, but I don't think I'd be willing to give a big + given Guentzel would be a rental.

The question is do the Pens want futures here, or might they like the idea of getting a player back who fill that spot going forward. Turning a rental into a good player you have certainty on isnt the worst thing if your trying to compete.

 

[66-30-33]

We are not giving Jake away for cheap, get out of here with that.

 

[SEALBound]

We are not giving Jake away for cheap, get out of here with that.

If the deal involves Kuzmenko, there's an aspect of "payment to take him".

Kuzmenko+Hoglander+1st (no conditions) is something I would look at.

 

[66-30-33]

If the deal involves Kuzmenko, there's an aspect of "payment to take him".

Kuzmenko+Hoglander+1st (no conditions) is something I would look at.

Look above, they aren't willing to give up much for him.

 

[SEALBound]

Look above, they aren't willing to give up much for him.

Yeah, sucks to be them.

 

[jackjohnson]

We are not giving Jake away for cheap, get out of here with that.

You guys can keep him if he is so valuable. Why would you move him? you wont get that much if he is traded since he is a UFA.

If the deal involves Kuzmenko, there's an aspect of "payment to take him".

Kuzmenko+Hoglander+1st (no conditions) is something I would look at.

Hoglander and Kuzmenko is 2 of our better players and both are young. You must be joking to get 2 roster players plus a 1st. That actually makes the Canucks weaker. Please make some realistic trade proposal, especially for a UFA. This isnt Marian Hossa or Kovalchuk

 

[SomeDude]

You guys can keep him if he is so valuable. Why would you move him? you wont get that much if he is traded since he is a UFA.

Apt name. You do appear to be the Jack Johnson of HF posting.

 

[jackjohnson]

Apt name. You do appear to be the Jack Johnson of HF posting.

At least am not "SomeDude"

 

[SEALBound]

You guys can keep him if he is so valuable. Why would you move him? you wont get that much if he is traded since he is a UFA.


Hoglander and Kuzmenko is 2 of our better players and both are young. You must be joking to get 2 roster players plus a 1st. That actually makes the Canucks weaker. Please make some realistic trade proposal, especially for a UFA. This isnt Marian Hossa or Kovalchuk

Kuzmenko who was a recent HS at 27 is one of your better young players? You might want to mention that in the Kuzmenko thread where literally no one agrees with that.

Funny you mention Hossa and Kovalchuk. Guentzel is outpacing BOTH for points compared to the years they were traded (Hossa 08, Kovy 10). He's out pacing Hossa in goals and is basically right at that same Kovalchuk pace. So...actually, those two both make good comparisons in the value the Penguins should be able to get.

Especially considering what Horvat recently went for...

 

[66-30-33]

You guys can keep him if he is so valuable. Why would you move him? you wont get that much if he is traded since he is a UFA.


Hoglander and Kuzmenko is 2 of our better players and both are young. You must be joking to get 2 roster players plus a 1st. That actually makes the Canucks weaker. Please make some realistic trade proposal, especially for a UFA. This isnt Marian Hossa or Kovalchuk

No words... :|

 

[Epic Neal Time]

My thoughts:

Colorado : 1st + Gulyayev/Kovalenko
Seattle: 1st + Goyette
Vancouver: Kuzmenko + Hoglander + 2nd

 

[Royal Puck]

2024 1st & Kuzmenko

Vancouver pays the late 1st for proven top 6 rental

Pittsburgh gets a winger to slot in right away and a decent pick.

 

[SEALBound]

My thoughts:

Colorado : 1st + Gulyayev/Kovalenko
Seattle: 1st + Goyette
Vancouver: Kuzmenko + Hoglander + 2nd

Not terrible offers but are either of the Colorado prospects willing to come over? If not, there's no point.

2024 1st & Kuzmenko

Vancouver pays the late 1st for proven top 6 rental

Pittsburgh gets a winger to slot in right away and a decent pick.

Does Kuzmenko slot in right away though? He's been a recent HS for Tocchet, what makes you think he wouldn't be for Sullivan in short order?
He carries a $5.5mil deal next year. In the process of being one of the better teams this year, Vancouver has effectively tanked his value IMHO. Though Kuzmenko has obviously done himself no favors.

To take on $5.5mil for a HS level player, there is 100% an aspect of needing to pay someone to take him. Jake is worth more than a 1st alone. Kuzmenko is near zero or negative value. There needs to be more. As stated above - Hoglander would be a good addition. I would also consider something like adding Hunter Brzustewicz and rethinking the 1st.

 

[MayorofWBS]

2024 1st & Kuzmenko

Vancouver pays the late 1st for proven top 6 rental

Pittsburgh gets a winger to slot in right away and a decent pick.

Kuzmenko isn't what Pittsburgh needs. He's a dump on the Canucks side and doesn't really give Pittsburgh the type of player they need and more importantly he's not an expiring deal and has a decent cap hit himself. If he doesn't work out with Geno/Sid and he certainly doesn't look like a Mike Sullivan guy, that contract will take more resources for Pittsburgh (which they don't have) to move off their 2024-25 roster. Kuzmenko doesn't bring any value in the trade. I wouldn't expect top prospect moving to Pittsburgh but that trade is pretty low value.

 

[Gurglesons]

Kuzmenko isn't what Pittsburgh needs. He's a dump on the Canucks side and doesn't really give Pittsburgh the type of player they need and more importantly he's not an expiring deal and has a decent cap hit himself. If he doesn't work out with Geno/Sid and he certainly doesn't look like a Mike Sullivan guy, that contract will take more resources for Pittsburgh (which they don't have) to move off their 2024-25 roster. Kuzmenko doesn't bring any value in the trade. I wouldn't expect top prospect moving to Pittsburgh but that trade is pretty low value.

Do the Penguins have a winger with the skill of Kuzy outside of Jake?

 

[BKarchitect]

I’d take Jake a million times over Horvat. Guentzel is one of the best wingers in the league and other than a glorious 3 month stretch of puck luck to start last year, the aren’t even in the same stratosphere as offensive contributors. Horvat can be my 2nd line C any day but I think the idea that he was pacing for 50 goals when he was traded and that’s why he got what he did is insanely dumb. Any nitwit could have predicted a normalization of his offense.

I’d be horrified as a Pens fan at the thought of having to watch Kuz try to replace Jake and the idea that Kuz would basically be the main thing you got back in a deal with the plusses as window dressing. You might as well fully liquidate Jake into draft and prospect capital at that point because you’re not going anywhere with that level of downgrade.

 

[SEALBound]

Kuzmenko isn't what Pittsburgh needs. He's a dump on the Canucks side and doesn't really give Pittsburgh the type of player they need and more importantly he's not an expiring deal and has a decent cap hit himself. If he doesn't work out with Geno/Sid and he certainly doesn't look like a Mike Sullivan guy, that contract will take more resources for Pittsburgh (which they don't have) to move off their 2024-25 roster. Kuzmenko doesn't bring any value in the trade. I wouldn't expect top prospect moving to Pittsburgh but that trade is pretty low value.

As a "this season" replacement, it might be fine. You could honestly put him on any line and find combos that would suffice. I preface that with the assumption that if we are trading Jake, it means we accept we are not playoff-bound. Worst case:

Rakell-Sid-Rust
Smith-Malkin-DOC
Kuzmenko-Eller-Puustinen

Though that third line makes me want to puke. Point being, I think this year it would be fine but I would then encourage them to try to send him out in a separate trade. Maybe someone wants him this year for playoff depth, maybe someone in the off-season will take a chance for a 2nd or so. That would reopen the door to resign Jake on July 1st.

But as I've made my point clear, yeah, Kuzmenko has very little value and at $5.5mil, he teeters on negative value that Vancouver will have to pay to get rid of.

I'm trying to think of the last time a player like Jake was legit available at the TDL. 40g scorer, PPG in the playoffs, and has consistent 1st line performance. It actually might be Kovalchuk as the last time a big-time player like this was available. I think if push comes to shove, a team ponies up the little extra to overpay.

ETA: Maybe Mark Stone? Even though Guentzel blows him away in offensive numbers, Stone was likely viewed as just as valuable potentially.

 

[Taluss]

Bump. So Kuz is gone. Where are we predicting he goes now?

Or do Pens fans think he will he resigned?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Bump. So Kuz is gone. Where are we predicting he goes now?

Or do Pens fans think he will he resigned?

I'd be shocked if he were dealt.

You don't replace Guentzels, and the Pens are committed to the core.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Friedman (Link) and LeBrun (Link) both linked Edmonton as a potential suitor this week. I thought that was interesting.

The Oilers are not conducive for a top tier return, though. Their 1st round pick is getting weaker week by week; there is a legit chance of a conference finals birth or better (29-32 range) too. Nothing trendy in the prospect pool either at this point.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Idk how EDM would make it work, but Guentzel next to Draisaitl and McDavid looks great on paper.

I still think a right shot dman to pair with Nurse is their #1 priority though. Maybe a goalie to challenge Skinner too.

 

[SEALBound]

Edmonton is tough because anyone worth getting in return is someone they need.

I imagine something like Janmark/Foegele+2024 1st+2024 2nd, or Broberg+1st with something coming back with Jake. Then try to flip Broberg to a win-now team.

 

[66-30-33]

Hope he goes to a team with some nice prospects we can pick from along with a 1st. If Jake goes he would be going at 50% retention most likely. 3M for a 40 goal scorer PPG that's really good in the playoffs would fetch a lot,