Player Discussion Jake DeBrusk Requests Trade II

[EvilDead]

ah yes "advanced metrics" like "goals" and "shots".

Listen, my guy, it's pretty simple and I didn't use any advanced stats in the post you just quoted. The Bruins goalies have sucked despite facing the fewest and least dangerous shots in the league. There's nothing advanced about that. It's literally just counting shots and looking at where they came from. you know...with eyes. if you want to keep arguing it's the other way around then please supply evidence

Clifton and Grzelyck have a combined plus minus of -9. Add in Forbort and Reilly's numbers of plus minus, it marginally improves to a -8. Contrast that to the play of McAvoy and Zboril who combine for a plus 5.

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

last year rask or a healthy Rask

2022 Rask

 

[EvilDead]

last year rask or a healthy Rask

Rask was healthy in season. He tore his labrum in the playoffs.

 

[mikelvl]

Duhatschek from the Athletic is another one who is suggesting Mason Appleton from Seattle. I don't see how trading Debrusk for another bottom six forward makes sense other than for Cap purposes $900k. But then again, he can't crack the Kraken lineup. Underwhelming.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Or, when the defense makes a mistake in the game its one the goaltenders have a hard time keeping out.
Like not covering the open man at the weak side of the net. Can't put that on goaltending, that's a defensive miscue.

That might be why the "Defense sucks" narrative is so popular. They make a mistake and it's in the net.
While our goaltending has not been stellar. I am not easily swayed to think they are the sole weak link for us this year.

their defense makes mistakes every year. Every team's defense makes mistakes too. They are not making worse mistakes than any other year and certainly not more frequently than other teams.

"one mistake and it's in the net" sure sounds like a goaltending problem, not a defense problem.

That's what separates good goalies from bad ones. Good ones bail the D out from time to time, bad ones don't.

 

[The National]

this is all valid but I tried to stay away from stats with weird letters like "x" and weird symbols like "%" because for some people they won't even consider what you're saying if you use terms they don't understand. Fortunately even if you just break it down into terms like "goals" and "shots" it's pretty clear that the Bruins goalies have been worse than the defense in front of them.

Well this shows both expected and actual, but yeah I agree it turns a lot of people off which is totally fair.

 

[EvilDead]

Yes Tuukka would be putting up better numbers, that's my entire point lol.

Not just Tuukka. Rask AND Halak. You can't have one without the other. Do you think that Rask and Halak would be giving you representative play and a better record at this point?

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Clifton and Grzelyck have a combined plus minus of -9. Add in Forbort and Reilly's numbers of plus minus, it marginally improves to a -8. Contrast that to the play of McAvoy and Zboril who combine for a plus 5.

what does this have to do with anything? Like what is the point that you're trying to make here?

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Well this shows both expected and actual, but yeah I agree it turns a lot of people off which is totally fair.

for some reason a lot of people's brains shut off when they see "expected" because they assume someone pulled that number out of a crystal ball lol.

 

[EvilDead]

their defense makes mistakes every year. Every team's defense makes mistakes too. They are not making worse mistakes than any other year and certainly not more frequently than other teams.

"one mistake and it's in the net" sure sounds like a goaltending problem, not a defense problem.

That's what separates good goalies from bad ones. Good ones bail the D out from time to time, bad ones don't.

Unless your goalie is Hasek or Roy, there is no reason to overpay for a goalie. That has been vindicated in most of the past cup winners who have paid more for a solid D core rather than focusing money on an elite goalie. Tampa has been the outlier these past two years. You look at the past cup winners, they have decent but not high end goaltenders between the pipes. Where they have been money is in their defensive cores that are top to bottom studs.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Unless your goalie is Hasek or Roy, there is no reason to overpay for a goalie. That has been vindicated in most of the past cup winners who have paid more for a solid D core rather than focusing money on an elite goalie. Tampa has been the outlier these past two years. You look at the past cup winners, they have decent but not high end goaltenders between the pipes. Where they have been money is in their defensive cores that are top to bottom studs.

Like the Penguins?

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

their defense makes mistakes every year. Every team's defense makes mistakes too. They are not making worse mistakes than any other year and certainly not more frequently than other teams.

"one mistake and it's in the net" sure sounds like a goaltending problem, not a defense problem.

That's what separates good goalies from bad ones. Good ones bail the D out from time to time, bad ones don't.

I disagree with your first line 100%

One mistake and it's in the net speaks more to how badly the mistake by the defense is.
Letting someone come out of a corner with the puck to the center and get a scoring chance is a defensive mistake.
Letting someone come out of a corner with the puck to the center and gets a pass-through to the completely unguarded man on the open side of the net is a defensive disaster.

I agree with your second line 100%
Getting that important save when the team needs their butts covered from defensive miscues divides playoff teams from lottery teams.
We have a rookie and a new still-young coming-off-an-injury goaltender who is learning how to play in Boston. I'll hold my judgement on them both until the fat lady sings in spring.

Has anyone looked up how many odd-man rushes we have given up this year? Are goals on those more on the goaltender or the defense?

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Not just Tuukka. Rask AND Halak. You can't have one without the other. Do you think that Rask and Halak would be giving you representative play and a better record at this point?

well Halak sucks and plays for another team. At no point have I argued that Halak is a better goalie than either of the ones we have right now so I'm not even going to debate it. My point, which I have supported with pretty easy to understand evidence, is that the Bruins goalies this year have performed worse than the Bruins defense. Given that Rask, if healthy, is one of the best goalies in the world, I'm pretty confident he would be putting up much better numbers than Swayman or Ullmark.

But Rask and Halak are both irrelevant to this discussion because neither changes the fact that the Bruins current goalies are giving up more goals than they should be.

 

[EvilDead]

what does this have to do with anything? Like what is the point that you're trying to make here?

that overpaying for goalie in the modern NHL at the expense of the D core isn't how you win cups. The Bruins spend way too much money at goaltender and then they wonder why they get bounced out of the second round every year? It's because they don't have enough money to improve the other parts of their roster to be a better, more well rounded team. The Bruins over reliance on Rask to bail them out has way too many times bit them in the ass because their team couldn't out physical the other team. Teams who have spent on defensemen first have usually won the cup in this past decade.

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

Why are we talking about goaltending in a Jake DeBrusk thread?

A bit off thread topic, no?

 

[EvilDead]

Like the Penguins?

A.) If I recall correctly, Pittsburgh rode the hot hand of whatever goalie was performing well between both Marc Andre Fleury AND Matt Murray. They didn't rely on one singular goalie to get them over the line.

B.) The Penguins had Letang, Dumolin, Matta, Schultz, and Hainsey. All of whom were at least 6 feet.

 

[EvilDead]

Why are we talking about goaltending in a Jake DeBrusk thread?

A bit off thread topic, no?

Because I feel like if the Bruins don't use DeBrusk to address needs on the blue line or the top 6, it will be a waste of a trade and shows that the Bruins haven't learned a damn thing for why they have been bounced out the past two playoffs.

 

[Knox Harrington]

Is Behind the B still a thing? Cause the past week would make for a good episode.

 

[The National]

It’s pretty simple, when you have a better goalie in net you have a better chance to win games.

Anyway back to Debrusk.

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

Because I feel like if the Bruins don't use DeBrusk to address needs on the blue line or the top 6, it will be a waste of a trade and shows that the Bruins haven't learned a damn thing for why they have been bounced out the past two playoffs.

So you are saying we need depth scoring beyond our top line and a deeper defense.

These are certainly new concerns that are alarming.

David Krejci would be appalled at this.

 

[ODAAT]

Why are we talking about goaltending in a Jake DeBrusk thread?

A bit off thread topic, no?

in other news, I like Milk

 

[ylekot]

So you are saying we need depth scoring beyond our top line and a deeper defense.

These are certainly new concerns that are alarming.

David Krejci would be appalled at this.

New? I hadn't noticed but now that you mention it...

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

in other news, I like Milk

...with Christmas cookies!

 

[veganbruin]

A Dallas fan on the main board said Klingberg for DeBrusk. I imagine that’s not super fair but I would do it in a heartbeat. Even if Klingberg doesn’t resign and is just a rental. He would instantly be our 2nd best Dman. Our right side would be tops in the NHL.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

A Dallas fan on the main board said Klingberg for DeBrusk. I imagine that’s not super fair but I would do it in a heartbeat. Even if Klingberg doesn’t resign and is just a rental. He would instantly be our 2nd best Dman. Our right side would be tops in the NHL.

Is his name Don Shmodfather?