Player Discussion: Jake Bean discussion

[VT]

He was our #1 RD last season and the closest we got to the lottery was Chicago. I'm not suggesting he is a #1 but for the moment he's our #1. And we keep talking about Bean getting better, last year was Peeke's rookie year...whose to say he won't be better this year too?

After totally screwing with his development in 2020-2021 burying him on the taxi squad so he played so few games, its remarkable how well he played. I fully expect him to be better this year compared to last season.

Peeke is an average player with not ideal hockey IQ and skill. Of course I don't think he's so bad as @thebus88 writes. Besides don't forget Boqvist was often injured. If you think RD, Bean was better but then he injured too. Btw, he and Boqvist should be stronger. We'll see.

 

[Viqsi]

What is the difference between your opinion and your truth?? Do people not BELIEVE what they think and say??

Reasonable people allow for the possibility that they may be mistaken, or that they may have overlooked something, because human beings are imperfect and capable of error. Presuming otherwise is considered to be arrogance. And that's why you get so much pushback - it's as though you're here for proselytization rather than debate. Your insights are incredibly valuable and welcome in debate, but proselytization isn't.

 

[NotWendell]

Reasonable people allow for the possibility that they may be mistaken, or that they may have overlooked something, because human beings are imperfect and capable of error. Presuming otherwise is considered to be arrogance. And that's why you get so much pushback - it's as though you're here for proselytization rather than debate. Your insights are incredibly valuable and welcome in debate, but proselytization isn't.

I learned a new word today!

 

[thebus88]

He was our #1 RD last season and the closest we got to the lottery was Chicago. I'm not suggesting he is a #1 but for the moment he's our #1. And we keep talking about Bean getting better, last year was Peeke's rookie year...whose to say he won't be better this year too?

After totally screwing with his development in 2020-2021 burying him on the taxi squad so he played so few games, its remarkable how well he played. I fully expect him to be better this year compared to last season.

Relevant stats:

Gavrikov averaged more TOI than Peeke, both overall and at even strength. 22:17 and 19:07. Gavrikov played 4:31 in overtime for the year.

Peeke played 21:29 total and 18:12 at even strength. Big PK minutes. On a POOR penalty kill. Didn’t play 1 second in overtime all year. Kukan, Boqvist and Blankenburg all saw OT time.

Bean played less than Peeke overall, at 20:34. But, he played MORE than Peeke at even strength, 18:22.

Another interesting number to look at regarding how much Larsen and the scouting staff apparently trust or look at Bean in relation to Peeke, or even Gavrikov, is his TOI in OT. Bean played 10:07 in overtime, “by far” the 2nd most minutes after Werenski.

Why did they play Bean so much in OT over Peeke (and Gavrikov) and how does the fact that Peeke didn’t play a single second in OT match up with him being considered our best option, or apparently trusted more by the coaches, as a “top pairing” guy??

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

What is the difference between your opinion and your truth?? Do people not BELIEVE what they think and say??

What is the difference?? SOMETHING is the “definitive truth”, something is “reality”, just because these things can’t be accurately measured doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

In most of these “polarized” or “black and white” arguments with such differing opinions, some people ARE right and some people ARE wrong.

What makes someone right and someone wrong? What if the “definitive truth” or “reality” conflicts with “my truth”? Is it then not truth?

That’s the difference between opinion and truth. One’s opinion does not dictate truth, but rather, either aligns with or or does not, as you say.

 

[Viqsi]

Relevant stats:

Gavrikov averaged more TOI than Peeke, both overall and at even strength. 22:17 and 19:07. Gavrikov played 4:31 in overtime for the year.

Peeke played 21:29 total and 18:12 at even strength. Big PK minutes. On a POOR penalty kill. Didn’t play 1 second in overtime all year. Kukan, Boqvist and Blankenburg all saw OT time.

Bean played less than Peeke overall, at 20:34. But, he played MORE than Peeke at even strength, 18:22.

Another interesting number to look at regarding how much Larsen and the scouting staff apparently trust or look at Bean in relation to Peeke, or even Gavrikov, is his TOI in OT. Bean played 10:07 in overtime, “by far” the 2nd most minutes after Werenski.

Why did they play Bean so much in OT over Peeke (and Gavrikov) and how does the fact that Peeke didn’t play a single second in OT match up with him being considered our best option, or apparently trusted more by the coaches, as a “top pairing” guy??

Because OT rewards two-way play by blueliners and nobody's claiming that as one of Peeke's skills. Peeke was on that pairing because he was perceived as the better stylistic fit opposite Werenski. Bean can be hypothetically a better player and still not be an ideal fit with Werenski.

 

[Doggy]

Relevant stats:

Gavrikov averaged more TOI than Peeke, both overall and at even strength. 22:17 and 19:07. Gavrikov played 4:31 in overtime for the year.

Peeke played 21:29 total and 18:12 at even strength. Big PK minutes. On a POOR penalty kill. Didn’t play 1 second in overtime all year. Kukan, Boqvist and Blankenburg all saw OT time.

Bean played less than Peeke overall, at 20:34. But, he played MORE than Peeke at even strength, 18:22.

Another interesting number to look at regarding how much Larsen and the scouting staff apparently trust or look at Bean in relation to Peeke, or even Gavrikov, is his TOI in OT. Bean played 10:07 in overtime, “by far” the 2nd most minutes after Werenski.

Why did they play Bean so much in OT over Peeke (and Gavrikov) and how does the fact that Peeke didn’t play a single second in OT match up with him being considered our best option, or apparently trusted more by the coaches, as a “top pairing” guy??

Shame on you Bus, you are better than that cherry picking stats. Can I play too?

Hmmm, let me see...I'll take dumb cherry picked stats for 800 Alec.

Alec: What CBJ unit was worse than their Penalty Kill and who played a lot of minutes on that unit and who didn't?

Doggy: That's an easy one Alec, the CBJ Power Play unit was WORSE than the Penalty Kill and Jake Bean by far skated the third most minutes on the squad while Andrew Peeke skated almost none.

Boy, sure glad we had Bean on our crappy Power Play. And your rhetorical question about why Bean plays in OT and Peeke doesn't is the snide petty comment. We all know offense is not Peeke's game. You can keep emphasizing it but it doesn't make it any more obvious. We knew it before you highlighted it the first time. So drop it.

I am done debating this with you. Neither one of us has a say in how this will unfold. So might as well give it a rest until training camp is done. For all we know Blanks ends up on the top pairing.

 

[NotWendell]

Everyone here knows it takes defensemen longer to develop and adapt to the NHL. Why are we crapping on two 24-year-olds and 21-year old defenseman?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Everyone here knows it takes defensemen longer to develop and adapt to the NHL. Why are we crapping on two 24-year-olds and 21-year old defenseman?

For fun and profit?

 

[NotWendell]

For fun and profit?

Ok. I can respect that.

 

[koteka]

The funny thing to me about arguing over whether defensemen A is better than defensemen B is that we have only 1 guy who played last season that I expect to be on the team in 4 years. I am guessing two other guys will be, but I don’t know who they are. Is Peake or Bean better? Too early tell. Does Gavrikov make good plays or bad? Yes. Was Boqvist a great pick up or a bust? Again, too early to tell. Our defense has been awful.

There is only 1 guy on the team that is a top 3 D in the NHL at this moment and that is WerenskI who is an elite 2 trying to show that he a solid 1. Which is really hard for Werenski to do because we haven’t found a guy who deserves to be paired with him. Gavi is a good 4 in my opinion, but that is all he is. Gudbranson is a 4/5 guy. The jury is still out on Boqvist, Peake, Bean, Blankenburg, and Christiansen. Bayreuther is an AHL guy you can call up when needed.

Our future top 6 could be Werenski, Jiricek, Mateychuk, Ceulemans, Svozil/Richard, and some big hulking stay-at-home right D we don’t have in the system yet. And we’ll look back at these arguments as silly.

 

[tunnelvision]

Gavrikov
(14:33) Lack of awareness breaks up a breakout pass from Texier to Bean. (10:55) Turnover outlet bank pass. (10:05) Clean PK faceoff win he fails to get out. (4:37) Nice fake shot/pass over to Bean. (3:18) Giveaway around the boards that he makes up for defensively, but, leads to extended zone time/chances and multiple Bean blocked shots. The last shift (last 25 secs) is a shitshow. Sums up the team defensively as a whole, both Gavrikov/Bean run around, but, Gavrikov has weak gap control, misses a pass and there is a good one-timer scoring chance against.

Bean
People will of course be upset and distracted from everything said prior, without seeing much said about Bean, but, he really had a mostly uneventful, but still good, period. Last shift is bad, and at (1:35) he has a pretty lazy pinch along the boards, yet Domi imo deserves more blame, that leads to a 2 on 1, that Gavrikov doesn’t attack the shooter as I would like him, he goes to the ice to attempt to block and a good shot ends up on net. The 1st shift Bean has a pretty open shot from the point that is blocked, that the opposing forward does a good job, but, he should get the puck to the net there. At (7:00) Duchene coming into the zone, has speed and an angle on Bean and bumps him back, but, Bean recovers and follows him behind the net to finish the play and knock the puck away. At (3:10) and (2:55) he has 2 good blocks on Forsberg, after Gavrikov gives the puck away coming out of the zone.

Thanks for doing this, I enjoy having more detail-focused discussion like this every once in a while. Here are my notes of period 1:

Bean – 12 shifts: 1 good play, 1 ok play, 6 bad plays

1:16 – 1:50: shift #1 (timestamps on the video)
1:32 – Shot from the point gets blocked even though there’s a lot of room to make another type of play – bad play
5:55 – 6:22: shift #2
6:16 – Shot from the point goes wide – bad play
8:46 – 9:45: shift #3
8:51 – good pass to the wing off the faceoff win – good play
9:29 – loses coverage of his guy after a dump-in – bad play
11:03 – 11:34: shift #4
14:10 – 15:45: shift#5
18:15 – 18:50: shift #6
19:55 – 20:16: shift #7
23:10 – 23:40: shift #8
26:15 – 26:50: shift #9
26:45 – receives pass from Gavrikov, could have passed to the middle (Robinson) but takes a shot at the net which is easy for goalie to snatch without giving up a rebound – OK play
28:12 – 29:08: shift #10
28:49 – loses coverage of his guy in the corner (Granlund) and allows Forsberg to have a shot attempt at the net and doesn’t tie up his stick on the rebound – bad play
32:10 – 33:05: shift #11
32:56 – Preds gets a 2vs1 which is partially a result of Bean not properly checking ”his guy” on the play (Ekholm) – bad play
34:50 – 35:55: shift #12
35:47 – loses coverage of his guy (Granlund) and gives too much time for him to make pass – bad play


Gavrikov – 12 shifts: 9 good plays, 7 bad plays

1:16 – 1:55: shift #1
1:43 – solid pinch to keep puck in the zone – good play
1:50 – wins puck race to force icing call – good play
5:18 – 6:22: shift #2
5:22 – breaks up the play in DZ, chips puck to open wing – good play
8:46 – 9:45: shift #3
9:00 – breaks up Preds zone exit attempt – good play
9:06 – loses puck battle on the boards – bad play
9:17 – fails to collect the pass or get out of the way – bad play
9:37 – well-timed stick check breaks up the play – good play
11:03 – 11:34: shift #4
14:10 – 15:45: shift #5
15:32 – bank pass gets intercepted – bad play
17:04 – 17:50: shift #6
17:14 – fails to clear puck out of the zone – bad play
18:50 – 20:16: shift #7
19:10 – loses coverage in DZ – bad play
23:10 – 23:40: shift #8
23:34 – breaks up the play in NZ – good play
26:15 – 26:50: shift #9
26:42 – fake shot and a cross ice pass to create more room – good play
28:12 – 29:08: shift #10
28:14 – stops Preds forward on the defensive blueline and forces turnover – good play
28:40 – gives a difficult pass to the wing, Voracek seems to be sleeping on the play but that can’t be an excuse – bad play
28:42 – makes up for his bad pass by checking Preds forward immediately – good play
32:10 – 33:05: shift #11
34:50 – 37:14: shift #12
35:45 – doesn’t block the passing lane – bad play


So to summarize: if I understood your post correctly, you saw 5-7 bad and 1 or 2 good plays from Gavrikov in period 1 whereas Bean had about 3 good moments and 2 bad ones. I agree that Bean had mostly an uneventful period but some of the plays you seem to define as ”good” plays are just ”ok”, ”bad” or insignificant stuff in my eyes. IMO neither had a good period, but Gavrikov’s good/bad play ratio was clearly better.

 

[thebus88]

Thanks for doing this, I enjoy having more detail-focused discussion like this every once in a while. Here are my notes of period 1:

Bean – 12 shifts: 1 good play, 1 ok play, 6 bad plays

1:16 – 1:50: shift #1 (timestamps on the video)
1:32 – Shot from the point gets blocked even though there’s a lot of room to make another type of play – bad play
5:55 – 6:22: shift #2
6:16 – Shot from the point goes wide – bad play
8:46 – 9:45: shift #3
8:51 – good pass to the wing off the faceoff win – good play
9:29 – loses coverage of his guy after a dump-in – bad play
11:03 – 11:34: shift #4
14:10 – 15:45: shift#5
18:15 – 18:50: shift #6
19:55 – 20:16: shift #7
23:10 – 23:40: shift #8
26:15 – 26:50: shift #9
26:45 – receives pass from Gavrikov, could have passed to the middle (Robinson) but takes a shot at the net which is easy for goalie to snatch without giving up a rebound – OK play
28:12 – 29:08: shift #10
28:49 – loses coverage of his guy in the corner (Granlund) and allows Forsberg to have a shot attempt at the net and doesn’t tie up his stick on the rebound – bad play
32:10 – 33:05: shift #11
32:56 – Preds gets a 2vs1 which is partially a result of Bean not properly checking ”his guy” on the play (Ekholm) – bad play
34:50 – 35:55: shift #12
35:47 – loses coverage of his guy (Granlund) and gives too much time for him to make pass – bad play


Gavrikov – 12 shifts: 9 good plays, 7 bad plays

1:16 – 1:55: shift #1
1:43 – solid pinch to keep puck in the zone – good play
1:50 – wins puck race to force icing call – good play
5:18 – 6:22: shift #2
5:22 – breaks up the play in DZ, chips puck to open wing – good play
8:46 – 9:45: shift #3
9:00 – breaks up Preds zone exit attempt – good play
9:06 – loses puck battle on the boards – bad play
9:17 – fails to collect the pass or get out of the way – bad play
9:37 – well-timed stick check breaks up the play – good play
11:03 – 11:34: shift #4
14:10 – 15:45: shift #5
15:32 – bank pass gets intercepted – bad play
17:04 – 17:50: shift #6
17:14 – fails to clear puck out of the zone – bad play
18:50 – 20:16: shift #7
19:10 – loses coverage in DZ – bad play
23:10 – 23:40: shift #8
23:34 – breaks up the play in NZ – good play
26:15 – 26:50: shift #9
26:42 – fake shot and a cross ice pass to create more room – good play
28:12 – 29:08: shift #10
28:14 – stops Preds forward on the defensive blueline and forces turnover – good play
28:40 – gives a difficult pass to the wing, Voracek seems to be sleeping on the play but that can’t be an excuse – bad play
28:42 – makes up for his bad pass by checking Preds forward immediately – good play
32:10 – 33:05: shift #11
34:50 – 37:14: shift #12
35:45 – doesn’t block the passing lane – bad play


So to summarize: if I understood your post correctly, you saw 5-7 bad and 1 or 2 good plays from Gavrikov in period 1 whereas Bean had about 3 good moments and 2 bad ones. I agree that Bean had mostly an uneventful period but some of the plays you seem to define as ”good” plays are just ”ok”, ”bad” or insignificant stuff in my eyes. IMO neither had a good period, but Gavrikov’s good/bad play ratio was clearly better.

I knew the debate would turn to this, but, that’s fine. I have a huge issue with your consistency regarding the criteria for ratings of these plays, in the same way you apparently have a problem with my analysis.

You are the guy that is categorizing “insignificant” stuff as “good” for Gavrikov, while clearly missing things that shouldn’t be missed for Bean. You gave Gavrikov (+)s for some pretty simple pinches and the time he simply retrieved a dumped in puck that he should have gotten to. There is a Bean defensive play on Duchene behind the net that is just as “good” as multiple plays you give Gavrikov credit for.

The incident/plays that we both noticed at 28:40-28:42-28:48, around 3:20 left, is interesting and I want to focus on them. It’s a perfect example of people watching the same thing and seeing something completely different.

You attempt to pass some blame on Voracek for the “pass”, (which I also noticed) but, both of us can see a hard pass rung around and along the boards like that is on Gavrikov. Even though Gavrikov recovered to knock the puck from the guy in traffic, the play to do that was “routine” AND it was caused by Gavrikov. You consider this an “even” for Gavrikov, +1 and -1. His “good” play should be easily considered an “ok” play as it really was a simple play and NSH never lost possession of the puck and continued attacking for the rest of the shift. Again, all because of HIS turnover.

This is where is gets interesting. 2 blocked shots on the most dangerous guy on the ice, from distances he already scored from….aannndddd nothing. You literally took the 2 plays that I thought were Bean’s BEST of the period, and 2 of the better plays by any of the defensemen, 2 plays that are directly relatable to the comparison between him and Gavrikov/Peeke, or the things people don’t give him any credit for, yet, you apparently missed 1 of the blocks entirely and Bean’s stick go flying, and actually somehow gave him a (-) for the other block.

Anybody else feel free to watch these things play out on the ice and tell me how they should be looked at, around 3:20 left. For clarity’s sake:

—28:40 – gives a difficult pass to the wing, Voracek seems to be sleeping on the play but that can’t be an excuse – bad play
28:42 – makes up for his bad pass by checking Preds forward immediately – good play —

— 28:49 – loses coverage of his guy in the corner (Granlund) and allows Forsberg to have a shot attempt at the net and doesn’t tie up his stick on the rebound – bad play —

#1: Bean absolutely does NOT “lose coverage of his guy”. Granlund makes a drop pass to Forsberg in the corner. Voracek goes to Forsberg and HE loses him after a spin, and Bean goes out (from “covering” Granlund/the net) to make up for Voracek’s laziness/mistake.

#2: This part is “hilarious”. You say Bean “allows” Forsberg to have a “shot attempt”, yet, completely IGNORE the fact or give ANY credit to the fact that Bean blocked the shot. Not only that, you double down and say that Bean, “doesn’t tie up his stick on the rebound”, even though Bean is STILL engaged with Forsberg, and he is the ONLY guy having any impact on breaking up the pass across the slot to Granlund.

3: What is Gavrikov doing and/or who is he covering at the time of that attempted “rebound” or “pass” over to Granlund after Forsberg’s shot is BLOCKED by Bean?? He is doing NOTHING to stop the puck get across the slot over to Granlund, it’s Bean, yet you somehow hold it against Bean.

4: What about Bean’s 2nd blocked shot on Forsberg, after Bean quickly has to step around another player (“his” player) he is covering by the net?? I don’t understand how this can be missed, stick goes flying, yet, Gavrikov gets credit for retrieving a dumped in puck??

Voracek showing he’s a defensive liability during the entire sequence (look at his positioning during the 2nd blocked shot) and I’d argue Bean is the only CBJ player to do the correct things and be in the correct position during the entire thing.

 

[Finner]

What if coaches desides and lets see whos right in next season?

 

[tunnelvision]

#1: Bean absolutely does NOT “lose coverage of his guy”. Granlund makes a drop pass to Forsberg in the corner. Voracek goes to Forsberg and HE loses him after a spin, and Bean goes out (from “covering” Granlund/the net) to make up for Voracek’s laziness/mistake.

#2: This part is “hilarious”. You say Bean “allows” Forsberg to have a “shot attempt”, yet, completely IGNORE the fact or give ANY credit to the fact that Bean blocked the shot. Not only that, you double down and say that Bean, “doesn’t tie up his stick on the rebound”, even though Bean is STILL engaged with Forsberg, and he is the ONLY guy having any impact on breaking up the pass across the slot to Granlund.

3: What is Gavrikov doing and/or who is he covering at the time of that attempted “rebound” or “pass” over to Granlund after Forsberg’s shot is BLOCKED by Bean?? He is doing NOTHING to stop the puck get across the slot over to Granlund, it’s Bean, yet you somehow hold it against Bean.

4: What about Bean’s 2nd blocked shot on Forsberg, after Bean quickly has to step around another player (“his” player) he is covering by the net?? I don’t understand how this can be missed, stick goes flying, yet, Gavrikov gets credit for retrieving a dumped in puck??

1-2) First of all, I'm not sure which type of zone defense they were trying to perform in this game. I assume it's some sort of man-on-man variation, but whatever it is they're doing pretty terrible job as a unit in that sequence. If you pause the play at 28:48, each Jackets player seem to have 1 Preds player near them that they should cover: Voracek vs Forsberg, Bean vs Granlund, Gavrikov vs #45, Bjorkstrand vs #14 and Jenner vs Duchene. By turning his head and moving closer to Granlund in the corner, I thought Bean was giving signal to the player behind him (Jenner in front of the net) that he's going to cover Granlund. Yet he doesn't and instead decides to play some vague "kinda area defense, kinda man-on-man defense".

This creates more confusion for the Jackets, so I can't really give him much credit on the play by partially blocking Forsberg's shot. On top of that, if he's not going to drop down on one knee and try to properly block a shot there (or try to reach and deflect puck to the netting), then he should at least take the body (Forsberg) and not allow him have another whack at the puck. But he doesn't do it. Overall it's a "bad" or "ok" play at best.

3) It's very chaotic at that point so hard to say for sure who to blame the most. At 28:48 Gavrikov sees Jenner in front of the net and probably thinks he'll be playing the other D position temporarily while Gavrikov is trying to cover the guy in the slot? The problem is Jenner changes position from in front to move closer to Duchene which opens up more space in the crease. Gavrikov realizes all of this a bit too late.

4) Did you notice how the Preds player in front of him lifts Bean's stick up right before the shot? Bean has one hand on the stick and doesn't have good grip on it, the shot gets blocked accidentally, the stick goes flying, then Bean leaves his position to get his stick back from the corner (do you think that's generally a good decision in a situation like this?). Fine if you see all of that as "good" play, but I can't really agree.

Although Gavrikov makes the worst play (terrible pass), I'm not impressed by the efforts of either player in this sequence. Give Gavrikov a "bad" and Bean an "ok" from this and Gavrikov was still the better D in that period.

"Bean on Duchene behind the net"... you mean that stick check after losing the puck race and missing a stick lift on the retrieval? Yeah I'd say it's an "ok" play considering the context.

Cheers, it was fun. Now I think we understand each others' biases better on these two guys.

 

[thebus88]

1-2) First of all, I'm not sure which type of zone defense they were trying to perform in this game. I assume it's some sort of man-on-man variation, but whatever it is they're doing pretty terrible job as a unit in that sequence. If you pause the play at 28:48, each Jackets player seem to have 1 Preds player near them that they should cover: Voracek vs Forsberg, Bean vs Granlund, Gavrikov vs #45, Bjorkstrand vs #14 and Jenner vs Duchene. By turning his head and moving closer to Granlund in the corner, I thought Bean was giving signal to the player behind him (Jenner in front of the net) that he's going to cover Granlund. Yet he doesn't and instead decides to play some vague "kinda area defense, kinda man-on-man defense".

This creates more confusion for the Jackets, so I can't really give him much credit on the play by partially blocking Forsberg's shot. On top of that, if he's not going to drop down on one knee and try to properly block a shot there (or try to reach and deflect puck to the netting), then he should at least take the body (Forsberg) and not allow him have another whack at the puck. But he doesn't do it. Overall it's a "bad" or "ok" play at best.

3) It's very chaotic at that point so hard to say for sure who to blame the most. At 28:48 Gavrikov sees Jenner in front of the net and probably thinks he'll be playing the other D position temporarily while Gavrikov is trying to cover the guy in the slot? The problem is Jenner changes position from in front to move closer to Duchene which opens up more space in the crease. Gavrikov realizes all of this a bit too late.

4) Did you notice how the Preds player in front of him lifts Bean's stick up right before the shot? Bean has one hand on the stick and doesn't have good grip on it, the shot gets blocked accidentally, the stick goes flying, then Bean leaves his position to get his stick back from the corner (do you think that's generally a good decision in a situation like this?). Fine if you see all of that as "good" play, but I can't really agree.

Although Gavrikov makes the worst play (terrible pass), I'm not impressed by the efforts of either player in this sequence. Give Gavrikov a "bad" and Bean an "ok" from this and Gavrikov was still the better D in that period.

"Bean on Duchene behind the net"... you mean that stick check after losing the puck race and missing a stick lift on the retrieval? Yeah I'd say it's an "ok" play considering the context.

Cheers, it was fun. Now I think we understand each others' biases better on these two guys.

Yup, I do appreciate the in depth back and forth, and I do believe I predicted exactly what would happen. I wish there was more input from others who are seemingly much more opinionated on the subject of other peoples apparent faulty opinions at other, more convenient, times.

I’d like to summarize and point out that the play by Bean on Duchene was just as “good” or as valuable as the multiple simple poke checks and pinches you gave Gavrikov credit for.

And those blocked shots….

You originally said Bean lost his guy, when he literally left Granlund behind the net because Voracek lost Forsberg. Bean is arguably the only guy in both instances who did everything as good as possible, and was the only guy who did anything from stopping Forsberg from getting the shots on net or pass across the crease, and you did everything you could to take away from the fact that he DID block the shots, both of them.

 

[makethesave]

He was our #1 RD last season and the closest we got to the lottery was Chicago. I'm not suggesting he is a #1 but for the moment he's our #1. And we keep talking about Bean getting better, last year was Peeke's rookie year...whose to say he won't be better this year too?

After totally screwing with his development in 2020-2021 burying him on the taxi squad so he played so few games, its remarkable how well he played. I fully expect him to be better this year compared to last season.

Finally....someone making some sense. I know D, I played it....not at NHL level...but serious shit. How people limit a defenseman's ceiling after one full year is insane. I prefer to hear what coaches have to say. Experts of this game say it takes between 200 to 250 NHL games for a defenseman to really "get it". Peeke's experience playing against the top opposition lines via last half of season and PK the whole season is invaluable experience. Best bet is to make a judgement on this player a year from now. But today ?...nonsense.

 

[Viqsi]

Yup, I do appreciate the in depth back and forth, and I do believe I predicted exactly what would happen. I wish there was more input from others who are seemingly much more opinionated on the subject of other peoples apparent faulty opinions at other, more convenient, times.

I’d like to summarize and point out that the play by Bean on Duchene was just as “good” or as valuable as the multiple simple poke checks and pinches you gave Gavrikov credit for.

And those blocked shots….

You originally said Bean lost his guy, when he literally left Granlund behind the net because Voracek lost Forsberg. Bean is arguably the only guy in both instances who did everything as good as possible, and was the only guy who did anything from stopping Forsberg from getting the shots on net or pass across the crease, and you did everything you could to take away from the fact that he DID block the shots, both of them.

To be honest, I don't always go into the shift-by-shift details because I find it difficult to control for personal biases when I do so - for example, I find myself making excuses for why guy X would be leaving his position and holding the exact same play against guy Y simply based on vague whatever. So I try to stick to higher-level scouting reports, and gather as many as I can so I can balance them against eachother. It's cheating, but it's more intellectually honest cheating in the end, sorta.

I will say that seeing this back-and-forth debate has taken me from being mildly frustrated by this thread to enjoying the hell out of it, tho.

 

[thebus88]

Finally....someone making some sense. I know D, I played it....not at NHL level...but serious shit. How people limit a defenseman's ceiling after one full year is insane. I prefer to hear what coaches have to say. Experts of this game say it takes between 200 to 250 NHL games for a defenseman to really "get it". Peeke's experience playing against the top opposition lines via last half of season and PK the whole season is invaluable experience. Best bet is to make a judgement on this player a year from now. But today ?...nonsense.

Or maybe Torts was right about him.

Last I knew the AHL was used for development. When did people become “ok” with a top pairing defensive spot being used as a developmental tool for a single player, that even his biggest fans don’t think he’ll be playing in (Jiricek) after 2 years?

 

[makethesave]

Or maybe Torts was right about him.

Last I knew the AHL was used for development. When did people become “ok” with a top pairing defensive spot being used as a developmental tool for a single player, that even his biggest fans don’t think he’ll be playing in (Jiricek) after 2 years?

Who in the hell said anything about development ? What coaches and GM's know is that it takes about 200 to 250 NHL games for a defenseman to get to their high level (through true NHL experience). There are always exceptions (Makar for example among a few others). Its experience that counts here...not development (which is the purpose of AHL). When a player goes from limited number of games to playing a full 82 games and most of that against the best forwards in the world, that is gained experience. Will there be mistakes ? Hell yea, and maybe a bunch. But with the team CBJ had last season with all the youth and injuries, there were a number of players that were able to gain experience. What they do with it going into this season will go a long ways to defining their future roles either on this or some other team.

 

[Viqsi]

Or maybe Torts was right about him.

Last I knew the AHL was used for development. When did people become “ok” with a top pairing defensive spot being used as a developmental tool for a single player, that even his biggest fans don’t think he’ll be playing in (Jiricek) after 2 years?

"The AHL is used for development" is kind of rapidly becoming a thought-terminating cliche. Some things you can only learn by doing in the actual environment you'll be working in.