Jagr vs Ovechkin vs Crosby: Who is the best offensive player

[Voight]

Jagr outproduced anything Ovie or Sid did in the salary cap era at 33 on a pathetic Rangers squad.

Jagr’s biggest issue was the fact his game was offensive only, but since 1992 he was the best offensive weapon in the league not named Mario Lemieux. His pure offensive ability is like top three all time.

Its like people forget he won 5 scoring titles, including 4 straight.

 

[Gurglesons]

Its like people forget he won 5 scoring titles, including 4 straight.

More likely that people never saw prime Jagr. Now, I easily buy the argument that overall Ovechkin and Sid have better cases as “the better player”, than Jags, but if we are talking pure offense it’s not a question.

 

[TheProspector]

We got to see a tiny flash at the end of Jagr's career about what it would look like if he played in era where it wasn't legal to be skating while simultaneously be can-opened and waterskied on. Even as a broken old man, he was dominant.

You can make some guesses as to how Ovechkin and Crosby would have fared during the Dead Puck Era, but Jagr absolutely wrecked the league during it. It's hard to think he wouldn't have wrecked it even more without the institutionalised interference the game had during his prime.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Jagr outproduced anything Ovie or Sid did in the salary cap era at 33 on a pathetic Rangers squad.

Jagr’s biggest issue was the fact his game was offensive only, but since 1992 he was the best offensive weapon in the league not named Mario Lemieux. His pure offensive ability is like top three all time.

Not taking anything away from Jagr as he had a great season and is obviously 1 of the greats, but let's not pretend like league GPG and especially PPOs weren't through the roof in 05/06. Highest scoring season in the last 24 years and the most PPOs ever. So not exactly fair to compare raw totals.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not taking anything away from Jagr as he had a great season and is obviously 1 of the greats, but let's not pretend like league GPG and especially PPOs weren't through the roof in 05/06. Highest scoring season in the last 24 years and the most PPOs ever. So not exactly fair to compare raw totals.

And Ovechkin and Sid played in that era and failed to ever out produce Jags.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

And Ovechkin and Sid played in that era and failed to ever out produce Jags.

Lol what era? It was 1 season and they were rookies. GPG fell back to DPE level after that 1 outlier season.

 

[Brucelenok]

At their very best: Ovechkin, Jagr, Crosby

Over their whole careers: Jagr, Crosby, Ovechkin

This is correct

 

[Gurglesons]

Lol what era? It was 1 season and they were rookies. GPG fell back to DPE level after that 1 outlier season.

I’m very surprised one of the most unabashed Ovechkin fans on this board can’t admit Jagr was the better offensive force.

 

[Regal]

I’m very surprised one of the most unabashed Ovechkin fans on this board can’t admit Jagr was the better offensive force.

He's not wrong though. You can't just look at Jagr's point total when league scoring spiked that season and slowly went down as Sid and Ovechkin peaked.

 

[Gurglesons]

He's not wrong though. You can't just look at Jagr's point total when league scoring spiked that season and slowly went down as Sid and Ovechkin peaked.

Okay. Let’s use the fact Jagr won four straight Art Ross trophies in the worst era of scoring in recent history.

And Sid and Ovie’s peak seasons in terms of goals per game league wide are nowhere close to what was going on from 97-01.

Fact is Jags was Lemieux / Gretzky esque from an offensive standpoint in his prime.

 

[Regal]

Okay. Let’s use the fact Jagr won three straight Art Ross trophies in the worst era of scoring in recent history.

Jagr's overall case is irrelevant to the point that was being discussed. He certainly has one. Though, his Art Rosses weren't won in the worst scoring era for star players, as PP time on ice was so huge. The period from 11-12 to 16-17 was considerably worse.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jagr's overall case is irrelevant to the point that was being discussed. He certainly has one. Though, his Art Rosses weren't won in the worst scoring era for star players, as PP time on ice was so huge. The period from 11-12 to 16-17 was considerably worse.

So the period of time when Ovechkin won 0 Art Ross trophies and Sid won 1?

You’re also throwing out the fact PPs converted more effectively during that time period versus the 97-01 time period.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

I’m very surprised one of the most unabashed Ovechkin fans on this board can’t admit Jagr was the better offensive force.

Your original point was "Jagr out produced Sid and OV in the salary cap era". Me being an OV fan has nothing to do with it as I'm making the same argument for Crosby too, but ok. Also, I've never seen anyone call 1 season an "era". The facts and context prove your "point" makes no sense, so you moved the goal posts to "ok let's look at Jagr's 5 rosses in the DPE". I never said anything about his career, I never said anything about DPE scoring levels, all I replied to was your post of Jagr's 05/06 production and Sid/OV not being able to equal it.

 

[Gurglesons]

Your original point was "Jagr out produced Sid and OV in the salary cap era". Me being an OV fan has nothing to do with it as I'm making the same argument for Crosby too, but ok. Also, I've never seen anyone call 1 season an "era". The facts and context prove your "point" makes no sense, so you moved the goal posts to "ok let's look at Jagr's 5 rosses in the DPE". I never said anything about his career, I never said anything about DPE scoring levels, all I replied to was your post of Jagr's 05/06 production and Sid/OV not being able to equal it.

My point was Jagr outproduced Sid and Ovie in 05-06 at 33 when Sid and Ovie were in their prime. Is that incorrect?

 

[slapKing]

After making the OP, I would like to give my thoughts as well. I feel Jagr is the best offensive player of the 3. In his prime he was both an elite goal scorer and playmaker. One interesting tidbit is that Jagr has 5 seasons where he was in the top 5 in goals and assists (his 96, 99, 00, 01, and 06 seasons). That something Sid and Ovie have never done. While Jagr didn't start as an elite offensive player right away, when he did, he never looked back. from around 95-01, Jagr was a offensive force of nature.

I struggle who was better between Crosby and Ovechkin offensively.

On one hand, Sid, on a per game stance, has been better than Ovie. He's behind Ovie by 15 points in 168 fewer games. He has the lead the league in all of goals, assists and points, and never finished below as a PPG player, something Ovie has done in a few occasions.

On the other hand, Ovie's highs were higher than Sid's. 3 straight 50+ goals and 100+ point seasons is nothing to sneeze at. Another plus for Ovie is that his specialty in goal scoring. 9 rockets and 8 seasons of 50 or more goals is incredible. Compare that to Sid assists totals, only leading the league in assists 1 time and hitting the 70 assist barrier two times. When it comes to their specialty, Ovie was that much better in comparison to Sid.

I didn't vote because I'm struggling who was the better offensive player between Sid and Ovie, but Jagr is the best out of the 3 for me.

 

[Gurglesons]

After making the OP, I would like to give my thoughts as well. I feel Jagr is the best offensive player of the 3. In his prime he was both an elite goal scorer and playmaker. One interesting tidbit is that Jagr has 5 seasons where he was in the top 5 in goals and assists (his 96, 99, 00, 01, and 06 seasons). That something Sid and Ovie have never done. While Jagr didn't start as an elite offensive player right away, when he did, he never looked back. from around 95-01, Jagr was a offensive force of nature.

I struggle who was better between Crosby and Ovechkin offensively.

On one hand, Sid, on a per game stance, has been better than Ovie. He's behind Ovie by 15 points in 168 fewer games. He has the lead the league in all of goals, assists and points, and never finished below as a PPG player, something Ovie has done in a few occasions.

On the other hand, Ovie's highs were higher than Sid's. 3 straight 50+ goals and 100+ point seasons is nothing to sneeze at. Another plus for Ovie is that his specialty in goal scoring. 9 rockets and 8 seasons of 50 or more goals is incredible. Compare that to Sid assists totals, only leading the league in assists 1 time and hitting the 70 assist barrier two times. When it comes to their specialty, Ovie was that much better in comparison to Sid.

I didn't vote because I'm struggling who was the better offensive player between Sid and Ovie, but Jagr is the best out of the 3 for me.

Why are you struggling? You’ve spelt out the story.

Crosby can achieve offensively everything Ovie has as a one dimensional winger while playing a more difficult position.

Jagr has done something neither Sid or Ovie could do offensively. That being said. Ovie and Sid led their teams to championships as the focal player which is something Jagr never could do. Because with Jags the game was always about Jags. On the 91/92 teams Jags was effectively the Phil Kessel of the modern Penguins back to back. Amazing player, but he was surrounded by three HHOFers in Sid, Malkin and Letang and an amazing goalie.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

My point was Jagr outproduced Sid and Ovie in 05-06 at 33 when Sid and Ovie were in their prime. Is that incorrect?

Actually you said "Jagr outproduced anything Ovie or Sid did in the salary cap era". That made no sense without context, so now you have changed to just the 05/06 season? Yes it's correct, but again use some context. Crosby was an 18 year old rookie and OV was a 20 year old rookie who had to adjust to a new country, language, playing style, etc. Good for Jagr that he outproduced them, but I don't see the big deal about it. It's not like that's Crosby and OV in the middle of their primes or Jagr way past his. Also, you mentioned NYR (a 100pt playoff team) being "terrible" but conveniently forgot how much worse the pens and caps were.

 

[Gurglesons]

Actually you said "Jagr outproduced anything Ovie or Sid did in the salary cap era". That made no sense without context, so now you have changed to just the 05/06 season? Yes it's correct, but again use some context. Crosby was an 18 year old rookie and OV was a 20 year old rookie who had to adjust to a new country, language, playing style, etc. Good for Jagr that he outproduced them, but I don't see the big deal about it. It's not like that's Crosby and OV in the middle of their primes or Jagr way past his. Also, you mentioned NYR (a 100pt playoff team) being "terrible" but conveniently forgot how much worse the pens and caps were.

The point still stands. Jagr’s seasons in the late 90s eclipse any one of Sid or Ovie’s when adjusted.

Doubt someone worshipping the altar of Kuznetsov ever watched Jags in his prime. He was basically Ovechkin with Sid’s strength and ability in the corners.

 

[Voight]

Okay. Let’s use the fact Jagr won four straight Art Ross trophies in the worst era of scoring in recent history.

And Sid and Ovie’s peak seasons in terms of goals per game league wide are nowhere close to what was going on from 97-01.

Fact is Jags was Lemieux / Gretzky esque from an offensive standpoint in his prime.

Jagr winning the scoring title while missing 1/4 of the season as always impressive to me. Thats something only he and Lemieux did. (Gretzky would have done so in 88 had Lemieux not been around)

 

[Hockey Outsider]

After making the OP, I would like to give my thoughts as well. I feel Jagr is the best offensive player of the 3. In his prime he was both an elite goal scorer and playmaker. One interesting tidbit is that Jagr has 5 seasons where he was in the top 5 in goals and assists (his 96, 99, 00, 01, and 06 seasons). That something Sid and Ovie have never done. While Jagr didn't start as an elite offensive player right away, when he did, he never looked back. from around 95-01, Jagr was a offensive force of nature.

Agreed, Jagr is pretty clearly the best of the three offensively. For starters, he has more scoring titles than Crosby and Ovechkin combined.

One thing that stands out about Jagr (in addition to the fact that he was well-balanced between goal-scoring and playmaking, like you mentioned), is he can produce in any situation. If you need him to take a backseat to the 2nd greatest offensive talent of all time? No problem, he'll have a historically dominant year at even-strength (letting Lemieux run the powerplay), and score 60 goals and 150 points. Need him to lead a terrible team? No problem, he'll have the highest-scoring season in 20 years, playing with Martin Straka and German Titov.

Jagr simply had a higher and longer offensive prime compared to Ovechkin. It's possible to argue that Crosby may have matched Jagr's production, but you have to go with the player who actually did it, as opposed to the one who was on pace to do it in a bunch of injury-shortened seasons).

There are definitely negatives with Jagr. He had a primadonna attitude for a lot of his career. He was never the best player on a Stanley Cup winner. He was clearly weaker defensively than Crosby. But if we're talking strictly about offensive production, I don't even think it's debatable that Jagr was the best of these three.

 

[TheGuiminator]

It’s between Crosby and Jagr. While Ovechkin is undoubtedly the better goalscorer of the 3, his overall offense isn’t as complete as Crosby or Jagr.

That said Jagr has the scoring titles, but Crosby is one of the most consistent point producer and has the higher ceiling imo.

 

[sdf]

I just wonder how ovechkin are even play on 5 on 5? He is so shit with the puck that he would loose it everetime he gets a pass. Unskilled bastard

 

[daver]

We got to see a tiny flash at the end of Jagr's career about what it would look like if he played in era where it wasn't legal to be skating while simultaneously be can-opened and waterskied on. Even as a broken old man, he was dominant.

You can make some guesses as to how Ovechkin and Crosby would have fared during the Dead Puck Era, but Jagr absolutely wrecked the league during it. It's hard to think he wouldn't have wrecked it even more without the institutionalised interference the game had during his prime.

How many times does this illogical argument need to be dismantled?

What you are actually arguing is that Jagr stood out from the pack in the '90s because of his physical stature; something that would be less of a difference in today's game. It would be smaller players like Kariya and Sakic that, in theory, would thrive more in the current NHL.

What actually happened in the '90s was everyone saw their numbers go down; no type/size of player was immune. Jagr would be no more dominant in today's game than he was in the '90s.

 

[daver]

It’s between Crosby and Jagr. While Ovechkin is undoubtedly the better goalscorer of the 3, his overall offense isn’t as complete as Crosby or Jagr.

That said Jagr has the scoring titles, but Crosby is one of the most consistent point producer and has the higher ceiling imo.

And one also needs to consider that Crosby was never used as pure offensive weapon like Jagr and Ovechkin, both of whom were, as close to literally as you can get, not contributing on the defensive side of things. This isn't a critique; simply acknowledging that Crosby produced as well as Jagr without sacrificing on the defensive side of things.

Similar to Jagr and Crosby getting an edge over OV for offensive completeness, this gives Crosby an edge over Jagr for overall game completeness.

 

[Randyne]

Ovechkin doesn't have Lemieux or Malkin, so it will be The Great 8 when all said and done. For now it's Jagr>Ovi>Crosby, then Ovi>Jagr>Crosby