Proposal: Jackets-Preds and I can't believe I'm actually posting this

[Viqsi]

This is probably going to get me excommunicated from both of the fanbases I owe fealty to, but the idea won't go away and so I need it either endorsed or shouted down. (That and I've chatted about it with a longtime friend on here, and I was tempted to mention him by name as revenge for getting on my bad side two nights ago, but that seemed too cruel. So I threatened him with it instead. )

Polite Request: please keep the Seth Jones comments to a minimum. I know it'll be really difficult under the circumstances, but, really. Please. It'd be much appreciated.

So!

To Columbus: Ryan Johansen
To Nashville: David Savard

Why Nashville might go for it: Losing Subban has created a fairly large hole defensively on the right (Fabbro's been OK, but not quite up to that level, and the bottom pairing is ugh); Savard would fit in beautifully. And the Preds can afford to trade from center depth, what with Duchene and Turris still being around. And Joey's getting a tad overpaid for what he's delivering in any case (he's been doing more of the #1B/#2C thing lately), so the cap savings might be welcome.

Why Columbus might go for it: Sure, it opens up a gap at RHD, but the Jackets really badly need another high-quality center to back up PLD, and Joey's skilled enough to do it (and we've seen him do it, and do it well with players on this roster). Sure, he's a tad overpaid, but the Jackets have plenty of cap space. And we've got some good defensive guys showing up in the pipeline anyways (Gavrikov has been awesome, for example).

Why Nashville might say no: Something something sunk cost fallacy Seth Jones. And Turris, while he's improved, has had some pretty ugly years lately, so relying on him as the #2C going forward might not be palatable. (Indeed, trading him for help is certainly preferred if it's possible; I'm just not so sure if it is.) And is Savard good enough to make up for the loss of Joey?

Why Columbus might say no: There's persistent rumors that Joey and the Jackets org (particularly Torts) did not part on happy terms (I don't take them seriously, myself, but others might). And the biggest issue with him then and now is that he seems to take shifts off; the Jackets are kind of in a general malaise and so that is not the sort of attitude that would help. Sure, it's an injection of skill, but if that skill doesn't do anything... and in the meantime the team's been leaning awfully hard on Savard...


Let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone.

Click to read more...

 

[maplepred]

Preds hang up the phone.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

I didn't see who made the post when I clicked, but I'm glad I did click.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The Preds have spent their entire existence trying to acquire passable top 6 centre depth, they’re not going to nuke that plan from orbit now that they’ve got it for David Savard.

 

[Viqsi]

The Preds have spent their entire existence trying to acquire passable top 6 centre depth, they’re not going to nuke that plan from orbit now that they’ve got it for David Savard.

See, that's the funny thing; the Jackets are in a similar position w/r/t defense depth. That's why this keeps sticking in my head - I can see pretty overwhelming positives and negatives for both sides and so I'm trying to get other perspectives on it. Yeah, I risk getting tarred and feathered, but that's a small price to pay for greater understanding.

 

[Soundgarden]

Shot answer: No

Long answer: Hell no.

 

[Mikka The Grey]

Highly doubt that RJ would ever play for Columbus' bench boss again.

 

[Jovavic]

The RJ ship has sailed

 

[BigFatCat999]

Hi! Friend in question.

Preds have one too many centers right now. IF the Preds manage to get Hall then trade is off. A Hall-Johansen-Arvidsen would be too damned sexy.

 

[PredsHead]

I would trade happily Turris plus the extra picks we got from the Subban deal for Savard, but not Johansen. That would essentially do the same thing from a Columbus standpoint and they recover some draft picks to boot.

 

[ViD]

I’d even throw in a mid rounder if that makes Nashville say yes

 

[cslebn]

I think the CBJ would have to add to Savard to get to Joey. I'm sure Preds fans would rather send Turris over anyway (unless I'm wrong and he's recovered that well).

Does it help if it's Savard+Wennberg (future preds 3C)?

 

[Soundgarden]

I’d even throw in a mid rounder if that makes Nashville say yes

It doesn't. If you want a center we have Turris, if we're still out by the deadline we have Bonino.

 

[Viqsi]

I would trade happily Turris plus the extra picks we got from the Subban deal for Savard, but not Johansen. That would essentially do the same thing from a Columbus standpoint and they recover some draft picks to boot.

One of those picks has already been used, so it's a bit too late to trade it. Substitute in a replacement 2nd and that might be better received. I kind of still wouldn't want to, tho; I'm really kind of worried about the idea of committing to Turris.

 

[PredsHead]

One of those picks has already been used, so it's a bit too late to trade it. Substitute in a replacement 2nd and that might be better received. I kind of still wouldn't want to, tho; I'm really kind of worried about the idea of committing to Turris.

You're right, I was thinking we picked up the extra third we have this year as part of that swap too for some reason. So my offer would be a 2nd, a 3rd and Turris for Savard. I can understand not wanting to commit to Turris, but I think he would be a nice fit in Columbus. Pair him with Josh Anderson and one of the young prospects you have and I could see that being a very good line, and some of the scoring pressure off of PLD and Atkinson.

 

[LastWordArmy]

David savard? Really?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I know we're starting to voice a little frustration with Johansen this season, but that's taking things too far. He's still pretty solid overall, even if $8M is too much and we wish he'd shoot more.

If people are too scared of Turris' contract, maybe there's another way? Do you guys still hate Wennberg? I don't want him for the Preds, but maybe he could be part of some risk-mitigation exchange involving a surplus RD, Turris, and ????

Edit: Or Dubinsky. Is he finished? Anyway, maybe there's some kind of contract coming back that can help grease the wheels on Turris. Turris is a decent player in his way. Just we don't seem to have a spot for him to play in his way.

 

[stempniaksen]

Johansen > Savard > Turris

Need wise trading Savard for one of the Preds centers seems to make sense. Value-wise I'm not convinced Preds fans are going to want to move RJ for Savard and 'Lumbus fans probably aren't overly interested in a Turris/Savard swap, so I think that's where the dream dies.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Viqsi, I'm coming around more and more to entertaining a trade of Johansen rather than Turris. Reasons being: agreed he's overpaid for what he is, he has more potential value, it provides a significant message/roster shakeup, and it may solve the center/Turris issue by establishing Duchene as the #1 and a clear spot for Turris as the #2. That said, I'd want to see something more coming back than this. Any edits you or another CBJ can make so Preds aren't feeling quite that stung on value (assuming other CBJ fans would want Johansen back)?

 

[Oddbob]

I'm not even a big Ryan Johansen fan, but this seems like a horrible return for him. Savard is a 4th D at best, is he not?

 

[bernmeister]

This is probably going to get me excommunicated from both of the fanbases I owe fealty to, but the idea won't go away and so I need it either endorsed or shouted down. (That and I've chatted about it with a longtime friend on here, and I was tempted to mention him by name as revenge for getting on my bad side two nights ago, but that seemed too cruel. So I threatened him with it instead. )

Polite Request: please keep the Seth Jones comments to a minimum. I know it'll be really difficult under the circumstances, but, really. Please. It'd be much appreciated.

So!

To Columbus: Ryan Johansen
To Nashville: David Savard

Why Nashville might go for it: Losing Subban has created a fairly large hole defensively on the right (Fabbro's been OK, but not quite up to that level, and the bottom pairing is ugh); Savard would fit in beautifully. And the Preds can afford to trade from center depth, what with Duchene and Turris still being around. And Joey's getting a tad overpaid for what he's delivering in any case (he's been doing more of the #1B/#2C thing lately), so the cap savings might be welcome.

Why Columbus might go for it: Sure, it opens up a gap at RHD, but the Jackets really badly need another high-quality center to back up PLD, and Joey's skilled enough to do it (and we've seen him do it, and do it well with players on this roster). Sure, he's a tad overpaid, but the Jackets have plenty of cap space. And we've got some good defensive guys showing up in the pipeline anyways (Gavrikov has been awesome, for example).

Why Nashville might say no: Something something sunk cost fallacy Seth Jones. And Turris, while he's improved, has had some pretty ugly years lately, so relying on him as the #2C going forward might not be palatable. (Indeed, trading him for help is certainly preferred if it's possible; I'm just not so sure if it is.) And is Savard good enough to make up for the loss of Joey?

Why Columbus might say no: There's persistent rumors that Joey and the Jackets org (particularly Torts) did not part on happy terms (I don't take them seriously, myself, but others might). And the biggest issue with him then and now is that he seems to take shifts off; the Jackets are kind of in a general malaise and so that is not the sort of attitude that would help. Sure, it's an injection of skill, but if that skill doesn't do anything... and in the meantime the team's been leaning awfully hard on Savard...


Let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone.

I am far from without sin, but who, on this board or otherwise, is?
My first comment is
freedom of speech/competition of ideas etc
don't be afraid to go outside the box,
but
be honest.

Second comment:
Deciding factor here will probably be not only if such move improves either/both team(s), but are there better deals I alternative pieces.

e.g., does it pay to go after Deangelo [RD example], etc etc

crushed for a day or so, back to you then...

 

[elitepete]

Johansen+Turris for Savard+Wennberg+2nd

 

[Soundgarden]

Johansen+Turris for Savard+Wennberg+2nd

That's bad. We're not downgrading our center depth that much just for Savard. The premise of this thread doesn't make much sense, Fabbro has been fine as no.4.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

That's bad. We're not downgrading our center depth that much just for Savard. The premise of this thread doesn't make much sense, Fabbro has been fine as no.4.

I think the premise is sound:

• We have 5 full-time centers, and 3 of them are legit top-6 options.
• Meanwhile, we lack size/physicality on our D in general and have an opening at RD in particular. It's a bit of a nitpick whether you want to call a guy #4 or #5 --- in my most ideal of worlds I want a physical defense-minded RD to pair with Josi 5-on-5... so is that guy a "top pair" D? Or is he #4 or #5? It's not really important to me - it's about the mix.

It's just I think it's premature - and perhaps a little too panicky to think about moving Johansen under that premise yet. He hasn't had a great start, granted, and can be inconsistent at times, but he's still a heavy center who can play matchups and playoff style hockey. If we moved him and fell back on Turris that would be the wrong move to make for the franchise. We'd be better off just buying out Turris than relying on him replacing Johansen and carrying that kind of load. Turris can be a passable 2nd line offensive center and put up just as many points as Johansen in the regular season... but Johansen just brings a lot more beyond that.

No, if we have a surplus to deal from, it's still just Turris in the surplus pile. Him and our UFA wingers. The need for a physical RD exists, even with Fabbro playing well, but it's not so desperate that we should consider trading from outside the surplus stock to address it. It's a relatively mild need. It could be filled with a lesser/cheaper player than Savard if our surplus assets aren't sufficient to land him. Or saved for the summer's UFA shopping list the way this season is going. There's no need to reach on this one.

 

[Viqsi]

I'm not even a big Ryan Johansen fan, but this seems like a horrible return for him. Savard is a 4th D at best, is he not?

Um. No. He's much better than that. He's not top-pairing, not really - he's one of those types that could be slotted as a #2D and do okay with the right partner, but you're much better off with him singlehandedly carrying the second pairing.

* * *​

Johansen+Turris for Savard+Wennberg+2nd

Acceptable to the Jackets, but that sacrifices far too much of the Preds' center depth. (Unless Wennberg is expected to bounce back under Lavi, which I suppose isn't totally impossible, but I'm not sure I'd consider it probable.)