Player Discussion Jack Eichel Pt. 10. Yes, 10.

[ORRFForever]

I'm in favor of no surgery.

Me, too.

I'm older so I ask myself, "If Jack was my son, what would I tell him?"

 

[ORRFForever]

The huge con to ADR is that no NHLer has ever had it done.

https://buffalospinesurgery.com/dr-andrew-cappuccino

Plus, the Sabres team spinal surgeon has been a principle investigator on international teams of doctors who have developed artificial disc replacements for the neck and back. So, if he doesn't believe that ADR is right for Eichel, most fans would not argue with him.

Interesting. Well said.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

You guys are in favor of fusion?

Jack himself is in favour of a trade I think.

 

[ORRFForever]

I'm in favor of the procedure that the majority of doctors, and all the disinterested doctors, seem to be advocating.

From what I can tell, there's one guy who's trying to make a career out of pioneering this for contact sports, and he hasn't convinced his peers.

I wouldn't want that risk on my team.

Good point.

The Sabres want Eichel healthy - to play or to trade. If they don't want him to have ADR, there must be a reason. After all, other than Jack, the Sabres have the most to lose.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

But is that really a con directly to ADR? I don't think it is. There is a difference between "no one has done it before in the NHL" and "no one in the NHL wants to get it or wants to get it anymore seeing the results"

Has Dr. Cappuccino or anyone from the team that invented ADR said why ADR is not suitable for athletes?

I think the Sabres don’t want it done because of the financial risk involved. If it was someone on a cheap one year contract, they’d probably be fine with that player being a guinea pig.

 

[haseoke39]

But is that really a con directly to ADR? I don't think it is. There is a difference between "no one has done it before in the NHL" and "no one in the NHL wants to get it or wants to get it anymore seeing the results"

Has Dr. Cappuccino or anyone from the team that invented ADR said why ADR is not suitable for athletes?

Yeah, I think it's been reported several places that the primary concern is that the artificial disc will break or dislodge, which potentially could do much worse damage.

 

[ORRFForever]

...it's been reported several places that the primary concern is that the artificial disc will break or dislodge, which potentially could do much worse damage.

^This!^

 

[JThorne]

nm

 

[Jacob582]

The fact that he is reportedly travelling across the country to try and find anyone else who will sign off on ADR is telling you everything you need to know.

Or maybe traveling to LA to meet another team's doctor?

 

[BuffaloGooner]

This is going to turn into Lafontaine 2.0. He’ll get his surgery, have a great first season with his new team and never be the same again. I really hope I’m wrong. Jack Eichel makes the league better.

 

[Not Sure]

Yeah, I think it's been reported several places that the primary concern is that the artificial disc will break or dislodge, which potentially could do much worse damage.

There are plenty of ADR failure x-rays out there, and those are from people not playing a heavy contact sport. I dont understand how after looking at the pros and cons someone could decide having a spiked steel puck bouncing around that close to their spinal cord could be a good idea. He'll even fusion is scary for a neck injury, this isn't a lower back problem with limited range of motion, your neck needs to move all over while supporting a big ass head flopping around.

He should have been happy the team wanted him to go the R&R route, and were willing to ride it out because that seems to have been his best option by a wide margin. This goes beyond hockey, dudes gotta live with the choice he makes right now for the next 60 years, its a damn scary situation.

 

[oldgoalie]

We need the Jack Eichel - “Perreault jersey edition” started.

 

[Sabre Dance]

How is Eichel looking for more opinions in late September? This whole situation is a giant fail by Eichel's people. He was hurt 6 months ago.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I would only listen to my parents because they are both nurses.

Listening to Prusmack on the 31 Thoughts pod, I get why Eichel wants ADR. It is a quicker recovery and better long term outcomes with no proven increased risk of injury for the remainder of his career.

Eichel's mom is a nurse, also.
And I'm pretty sure the only reason there's no proven long-term risk to his career with ADR is because no one who plays a serious contact sport has ever had it before...because doctors generally agree it's a bad idea.

 

[Montag DP]

This is going to turn into Lafontaine 2.0. He’ll get his surgery, have a great first season with his new team and never be the same again. I really hope I’m wrong. Jack Eichel makes the league better.

I don't know about the prediction, but I agree with the last line. Eichel's raw talent has been pretty much the lone bright spot on this team for the last six years. It would suck if his best years are behind him already.

 

[sabremike]

Has there ever been a coach who did as much catastrophic damage to a franchise in such a short time as Kreuger did? Eichel had no business being out on the ice for that game where he took the hit that destroyed everything. The season was already over at that point and Jack was clearly hurting, the sane thing would've been to shut him down to get healthy for 21-22. And it's even dumber when you realize that players playing with an injury are very susceptible to further injury because they have to play at reduced speed and effort.

 

[Kublakhan]

Has there ever been a coach who did as much catastrophic damage to a franchise in such a short time as Kreuger did? Eichel had no business being out on the ice for that game where he took the hit that destroyed everything. The season was already over at that point and Jack was clearly hurting, the sane thing would've been to shut him down to get healthy for 21-22. And it's even dumber when you realize that players playing with an injury are very susceptible to further injury because they have to play at reduced speed and effort.

Nice guy.. Horrible coach

 

[Jim Bob]

Eichel's mom is a nurse, also.

And I'm pretty sure the only reason there's no proven long-term risk to his career with ADR is because no one who plays a serious contact sport has ever had it before...because doctors generally agree it's a bad idea.

MMA isn't a "serious contact sport"?

Like most medical procedures, there can be a lot of resistance to trying a new treatment because of the unknowns. I won't be surprised if 20 years from now we look back at fusion like we view other previous treatments that have become antiquated as technology advances.

The other issue with this specific injury is that it doesn't really happen a lot in NHL players. This isn't like torn knee ligaments that happen a dozen or so times every season.

It's been 4 years since Letang had a similar injury.

 

[Jim Bob]

There are plenty of ADR failure x-rays out there, and those are from people not playing a heavy contact sport. I dont understand how after looking at the pros and cons someone could decide having a spiked steel puck bouncing around that close to their spinal cord could be a good idea. He'll even fusion is scary for a neck injury, this isn't a lower back problem with limited range of motion, your neck needs to move all over while supporting a big ass head flopping around.

He should have been happy the team wanted him to go the R&R route, and were willing to ride it out because that seems to have been his best option by a wide margin. This goes beyond hockey, dudes gotta live with the choice he makes right now for the next 60 years, its a damn scary situation.

Never get medical advice off of the internet.

And the issue with the rest and rehab approach is that all the doctors agreed that if 12 weeks of rest and rehab didn't resolve the issue, further rest and rehab was highly, highly unlikely to resolve it.

But, after the 12 week rest and rehab period ended, the Sabres have not allowed Eichel to get the surgery he wants to have to resolve the issue and get him back to 100% ASAP.

We can argue for the next decade over which procedure is the best option. But, that doesn't change the fact that Eichel believes ADR to be the best option for him and his body.

I can't even imagine how frustrated I would be if I had an injury that was causing me to have consistent pain and my employer was unwilling to allow me to get a surgery I wanted to resolve it.

 

[Jim Bob]

How is Eichel looking for more opinions in late September? This whole situation is a giant fail by Eichel's people. He was hurt 6 months ago.

I doubt he is looking for another opinion. I believe that he likely is trying to strengthen his potential arbitration case to get the surgery he wants.

This whole situation is a giant fail by everyone involved. Neither the player nor the team is better off with Eichel still not having had surgery.

Breakout players? Predictions? Goalie trades? Eichel's future? Duhatschek mailbag

Assuming Jack Eichel is going to get healthy and return to his previous elite form (even if it takes until the next trade deadline), where do think it makes most sense for the Sabres to trade him to get the most value? — Joshua G.

I like the way Joshua G. framed his question because logically, it’s how the Eichel drama will ultimately play out. For now, Eichel’s in limbo: No team has been prepared to offer a substantial package of talent and draft choices for him until they see that he’s physically sound. For the purposes of this exercise, let’s take Joshua’s assumptions as the twin starting points: That Eichel will eventually get healthy AND return to his previous form.

If that occurs, the development will create substantial value and interest from teams around the NHL because Eichel is only 24 and while that $10 million annual commitment to him seems a lot, if he becomes an elite player, it might seem like a bargain.

In order for the Sabres to maximize their value for a fully rehabilitated player, they need to find a team willing to make a bold move. So that rules out Los Angeles for me. Too conservative and they won’t part with Quinton Byfield, even for Eichel.

Two GMs who do have the courage to wade in on a possible Eichel deal are Columbus’s Jarmo Kekalainen and Minnesota’s Bill Guerin and both the Blue Jackets and Wild could use a clear No. 1 center. I’d like to put Boston in the mix, but I can’t find a fit – not for the salary Eichel commands or the player/draft choice compensation going the other way.

Longshots? Calgary and Anaheim. The idea of Eichel suiting up in the Battle of Alberta and going head-to-head with Connor McDavid is too delicious to dismiss. And Anaheim is a team with a lot of young players in the pipeline – both quality and quantity. Imagine Eichel and Trevor Zegras as your 1-2 center-ice combination going forward. That could be a dynamic duo.

Eichel not being healthy and the uncertainty around if/when he will be is the #1 reason why other GMs are not meeting Adams' asking price.

If the team wants to trade Eichel and Eichel wants a trade out of town, then both sides are epicly failing to get what they both want.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I doubt he is looking for another opinion. I believe that he likely is trying to strengthen his potential arbitration case to get the surgery he wants.

This whole situation is a giant fail by everyone involved. Neither the player nor the team is better off with Eichel still not having had surgery.

Breakout players? Predictions? Goalie trades? Eichel's future? Duhatschek mailbag



Eichel not being healthy and the uncertainty around if/when he will be is the #1 reason why other GMs are not meeting Adams' asking price.

If the team wants to trade Eichel and Eichel wants a trade out of town, then both sides are epicly failing to get what they both want.

I don't see how the Sabres failed? If the speculation that Eichel needs surgery is true were they supposed to let Eichel go against their doctors?

I still haven't heard the Sabres say Eichel has an injury that requires surgery. I hope we get that answer soon. It's just such a strange situation.

 

[Jim Bob]

I don't see how the Sabres failed? If the speculation that Eichel needs surgery is true were they supposed to let Eichel go against their doctors?

I still haven't heard the Sabres say Eichel has an injury that requires surgery. I hope we get that answer soon. It's just such a strange situation.

If the goal is to move Eichel in a trade with a solid return, they have failed because Eichel is still Sabres property.

 

[Chainshot]

If the goal is to move Eichel in a trade with a solid return, they have failed because Eichel is still Sabres property.

And if it is to move him for a solid return, they have also squandered off-season cap availability for those looking to acquire Jack meaning they either take a barrel of bad cap back in trade or they have to wait until next summer.

 

[Jacob582]

If the goal is to move Eichel in a trade with a solid return, they have failed because Eichel is still Sabres property.

They should have traded him before the 2020 draft.

I think Pegula was in denial and felt that his Kevyn could mend the relationship and build a winner (Hall) to keep Eichel around longer.

It all backfired when Peter/Jack (and Taylor too) decided to ratf*ck the organization. Injury got in the way too, and was further grievance with an already disgruntled Jack. They decided to use it as a wedge issue to muddy the trade waters.

 

[Sabre Dance]

If the goal is to move Eichel in a trade with a solid return, they have failed because Eichel is still Sabres property.

How exactly did the Sabres fail? I'm not following what your point is. The Sabres could've done something differently to increase Eichel's value?