J Schultz - how much does it still sting?

[NEWFowler]

I'll bet money on when he comes to Anaheim, he will be day-to-day with the flu. Quote me on it.

 

[bumperkisser]

I'll bet money on when he comes to Anaheim, he will be day-to-day with the flu. Quote me on it.

when he comes to anaheim. i hope we dress staubitz/maroon/lp3 as our 4th line

 

[Ducks DVM]

when he comes to anaheim. i hope we dress staubitz/maroon/lp3 as our 4th line

I do to but it's so they can beat the crap out of Sutton for last year. Not a one of those guys would ever come anywhere near Schultz though.

 

[snarktacular]

Does anyone else not actually care?

I'm with you I don't really care either. I don't care at all that he didn't sign here, or that he signed in Edmonton. The only thing that annoys me is how it sounds like he didn't tell the Ducks about it ahead of time. I actually place most of the blame on "not getting anything in compensation" on Murray, although not getting compensation doesn't actually bug me either.

What annoys me is that he became a top 5 prospect in the league when he signed with Edmonton. And what, he was also considered one of the biggest signings in the offseason? Last year at this time, no one cared about him outside of Anaheim. Few months later he's the biggest thing ever.

This is also true, but the top 5 prospect thing happened before he signed in Edmonton. It happened when he became a free agent. And at least it's not an anti-Anaheim thing, because the same kind of over hype happens with other UFAs like Brunnstrom or Gilroy.

 

[Bender66]

when he comes to anaheim. i hope we dress staubitz/maroon/lp3 as our 4th line

Then you better buy these 3 guys some jetpacks because that's the only way any of them are getting any where close enough to even breathe on Schultz.

 

[Daz28]

Here's a stat that will take away some of that sting.

18 games. 17:34 ES TOI/game.

1 assist.


LOL

 

[pesko]

I don't mind that he didn't choose to play here, he had all the right to make that choice. We have enough depth and prospects in defensemen to not miss him too much. Why people dislike him is because he had to be such a ****** and lie to the organization, when all he had to do was state his intentions and we could've netted something in return for him.

 

[lavoy]

All the comments about the Oilers and his current success are just dumb ... He's a rookie, and if you haven't noticed, Edmonton is in a huge rebuild and results are not instant.

I'm in no way defending him or the Oilers here, just pointing out something that should be taken into consideration ...

Now, taking current results into the mix, this red-hot start (and it's more than that) relieves the "anger" of him leaving us. We're playing great, and players like Vatanen and now Hampus make life seem brighter as a Ducks fan ... What he did to the organization though, (his attitude) IMO was disrespectful and when he comes to the Honda Center in April, he should hear it from the fans ... I don't know if the coaches or players will try anything extra, but from a fans perspective you have to be a little "peaved" at the situation ... No injuries, just let it be known whenever he comes to the Honda Center he shouldn't be able to hear anything but 17,000+ boos.

We will and some have got over it, but let's make him uncomfortable lol.

 

[44]

Can't wait until April 21st to see him get leveled

 

[Markus078]

Can't wait until April 21st to see him get leveled

Nothing will happen! Hopefully the Ducks will still be one of the top teams and the Oilers play for a nice season ending.

Overall, skillwise I still like him a lot. Great defenseman and even greater potential. I still don't understand why he left. He would have been a great fit here.

 

[GermanRocket7]

Nothing will happen! Hopefully the Ducks will still be one of the top teams and the Oilers play for a nice season ending.

Overall, skillwise I still like him a lot. Great defenseman and even greater potential. I still don't understand why he left. He would have been a great fit here.

And this is why I think we should have officially filed for tampering against Edmonton.

It appears as if this whole saga with the meetings in Toronto and **** was just to make his actions appear more spontaneous and "legal", so to say. The kid told BM, BB and Scotty ****ing Niedermayer he "couldn't wait" to join the Ducks as late as December of 2011. He told them he'd join the instant the Badgers are eliminated to burn off a year of his ELC and playing a few NHL games to get adjusted to the speed and skill level.

In fact, he straight up lied to their faces.

Three months later he didn't even pick up the phone when BM called him and it appears as if something - someONE - got to the kid during that period of time. We don't have proof, obviously, but I suspect the Oilers having tampered him and told him he would be their #1 go-to-guy on the blue line and that they wanted to build a dynasty around him and their young studs on the rear end.

No matter what, I think the NHL would have done something about that Pejorative Slured loophole in the CBA if it were NYR, DET or TOR getting fleeced. I mean, just look at his contract. He's got a 3.775M cap hit. If an RFA is being lured away by that kind of an offer, you get at least a 1st Round Pick and a 3rd Round Pick as compensation.

No hopes of being served justice here, but actually, I think this is what the Oilers should have to cede to the Ducks. Seeing as how they still suck, I wouldn't mind getting a lottery pick in return for this whole mess of a crappy odyssey.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

This thread is 61 posts too long.

 

[Vipers31]

And this is why I think we should have officially filed for tampering against Edmonton. (...) We don't have proof, obviously, but I suspect the Oilers having tampered him and told him he would be their #1 go-to-guy on the blue line and that they wanted to build a dynasty around him and their young studs on the rear end.

Well, that's the point, though. It's not a wise thing to file for such a case without anything other than a suspicion. Going by what our guys said, we don't have any reason to believe that he didn't lie, but that doesn't implicate the Oilers in any way. He might have had his eyes set at them the entire time (which, financially always made a ton of sense), but it would really require the Oilers to be actively involved. And without anything substantial on that front, it's just not a good idea to open that can of worms.

No matter what, I think the NHL would have done something about that Pejorative Slured loophole in the CBA if it were NYR, DET or TOR getting fleeced.

I think there's cases where the big market teams are getting favorabel treatment, but this isn't one of them. It's not like the league didn't care. They did make a proposal in the CBA negotiations. The PA flat out rejected it. It was a tough enough process to begin with, and the PA had enough things to concede on, so the NHL wasn't in much of a position to fight to the blood to fix that thing. Within the CBA negotiations, there isn't much ground to say the league was playing favourites with the bigger markets. There were many things included in the CBA that actually work for the smaller clubs better than for the big ones. So I don't think that this would have turned out any different with any of those clubs.

Also, part of why it hasn't been addressed is that it isn't a loophole. People keep calling it that, but it isn't in the true sense of the word. If it was indeed a true loophole, it wouldn't need fixing via a new CBA. To fix actual loopholes, there's always instruments within the CBA to go up against that. Like with the Kovalchuk cap circumvention contract. That contract was valid within all existing rules, but it did use a loophole, so even without any changes to the CBA beforehand, it could be rejected, the Devils were punished. This thing isn't a loophole. It's just the existing set of rules for players in those situations. It's simply set up like that, and in some ways, it's consistent with the time frames it would take for other players to become free agents. There's some differences, which is why an adjustment has been proposed, but it isn't a loophole.

 

[Ducks DVM]

It's the only way a drafted player of that age can become a free agent rather than have to go back into the draft. A case can easily be made that while the NHL didn't want to lock them into a team owning their rights forever that they didn't realize that allowing them to declare when they were leaving school would allow the players to keep themselves from being draft eligible again, and was thus a loophole.

 

[Vipers31]

It's the only way a drafted player of that age can become a free agent rather than have to go back into the draft. A case can easily be made that while the NHL didn't want to lock them into a team owning their rights forever that they didn't realize that allowing them to declare when they were leaving school would allow the players to keep themselves from being draft eligible again, and was thus a loophole.

If that case was actually that easy to be made, though, the NHL simply could have said "nope, back to the draft you go as well" in the first instance of such a player trying that route. There's usually plenty of instruments incorporated in a CBA to just close such a loophole up, as soon as the resulting scenario "goes against the spirit" of a certain set of rules on one area, or something along those lines. I think between the lack of such a reaction and the NHL feeling the necessity to propose an actual change there would suggest that it's actually a bit more of a concession (even though of questionable weight given the limited number of players affected) than a true loophole. I do see your point on a case potentially to be made, but between the NHL not acting upon it by simply adding a new interpretation to the rules within the old CBA, but then trying to address it in the negotiations for the next one (illustrating that they'd want to see some change there), it seems like they feel it's not one.

 

[Ducks DVM]

If that case was actually that easy to be made, though, the NHL simply could have said "nope, back to the draft you go as well" in the first instance of such a player trying that route. There's usually plenty of instruments incorporated in a CBA to just close such a loophole up, as soon as the resulting scenario "goes against the spirit" of a certain set of rules on one area, or something along those lines. I think between the lack of such a reaction and the NHL feeling the necessity to propose an actual change there would suggest that it's actually a bit more of a concession (even though of questionable weight given the limited number of players affected) than a true loophole. I do see your point on a case potentially to be made, but between the NHL not acting upon it by simply adding a new interpretation to the rules within the old CBA, but then trying to address it in the negotiations for the next one (illustrating that they'd want to see some change there), it seems like they feel it's not one.

They couldn't just change an interpretation though - every other category gets free agency on a specific day of the year, this group gets it 30 days after they "leave school". It would require a change in the actual CBA language to change. And the way things went with the CBA, and the owners not getting a LOT of things they wanted, it's probably an overstatement to say they didn't care about it. They just didn't care about it nearly enough to make an issue out of it when they were in danger of losing the season. And the way the PA is being run, there's no way they will EVER allow a money making mechanism to be lost.

 

[JtotheLew]

I am just disappointed, I think Schultz is going to be a great player and he would look awesome in a Ducks uniform, our team would be scary good with him this year. That being said there is no point getting angry or dwelling on it, he didn't want to play here for some reason so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. It is still lame though as I would imagine less than 5% of NHL players get drafted to a team of their choice but you just shut up and go there and if after X amount of years you don't like it you get out. You're still making million(s) of dollars to play hockey.

I do question though why he didn't want to come here, and I hope one day everything can be out in the open (though I doubt it).

The other thing that disappoints me is that, and I don't like being the guy that whines about Anaheim getting shafted by the league, but I legitimately think if this was happening to Toronto or Montreal or another big market team the NHL would have stepped in and done something or at the very least it would have created more controversy, perhaps resulting in a rule change after the fact. In the Canadian media there was hardly any mention of the fact that what Schultz was doing was (in my opinion) an ethical grey area, or mention of how the Ducks were getting a raw deal. It's definitely not fair to guys that play in the league for years before becoming UFA's, and when a team drafts a player they should have the peace of mind that they'll at least get the chance to put that guy in their uniform. I hope something can be done to change the ruling on this moving forward.

 

[snarktacular]

It's the only way a drafted player of that age can become a free agent rather than have to go back into the draft. A case can easily be made that while the NHL didn't want to lock them into a team owning their rights forever that they didn't realize that allowing them to declare when they were leaving school would allow the players to keep themselves from being draft eligible again, and was thus a loophole.

You could look at it as "rather than have to go back into the draft" the way you do, and it does sound like college players are getting something extra. But way the CBA looks at it is "age when becoming a UFA."

CHL players also become UFA at the same age as Schultz, 21. They just have to go back into the draft first. It's just an effect of them giving college guys 4 years of draft rights to go with the 4 years of schooling.


The other truly consistent way to do it would have been to make college guys' rights expire after 2 years so they go back into the draft. In which case we still would have lost Schultz's rights for nothing and he would be UFA, just 2 years earlier.

 

[justheducks]

I don't know how anyone that is a diehard Ducks fan still not pissed about this is.
The guy literally did the worst thing a draft pick can do to your organization. Don't forget that this cost the Ducks money, time, scouting, not to mention a waste of a 2nd round pick and whatever compensation we would have gotten by trading him. The fact that his morals were so low that he couldn't even ask for a sign and trade is BS. If you really don't want to play for a certain franchise then you come to the GM (Bob Murray) and tell him how you feel. Give him a list of the 3 teams you would go to with the #1 team being Edmonton. You do this before the draft and let the Ducks get a pick out of you. Nothing ever comes out in the media making you look bad and everyone gets what they want.
To me it resembles the Lebron James televised "decision". Most don't hate that James left it is how he left .
Personally, I will be waiting for the Edmonton bus to be arriving to Honda Center and me and a small group of people will be having anti-Schultz signs if anyone wants to join us. Not everyday we get to do this kind of stuff.