It's time to bring the EIG back!

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Are you implying that you, and the rest of the Oiler fanbase, are shareholders? You are not. You are customers. You have no idea how Chia is reporting to his shareholder (Katz).



I don't live in Edmonton, so my opinion on spending public dollars for a new arena shouldn't be relevant... but, at the end of the day, Katz put in big dollars for a leading sports facility that will arguable revitalize the downtown core.

This wouldn't happen without him.

It has already started to revitalize the downtown. Tons of hotels, new condos and other things are being built solely because the arena is going in. At least that's what they are telling us anyways.

 

[shoop]

Are you implying that you, and the rest of the Oiler fanbase, are shareholders? You are not. You are customers. You have no idea how Chia is reporting to his shareholder (Katz).

I don't live in Edmonton, so my opinion on spending public dollars for a new arena shouldn't be relevant... but, at the end of the day, Katz put in big dollars for a leading sports facility that will arguable revitalize the downtown core.

This wouldn't happen without him.

Your comparison doesn't hold together. Katz is the owner. He is Chia's boss.

Shareholders are collective owners of a publicly traded company. The analogy doesn't apply at all.

I agree with you about putting public money into the project.

Katz put in the money to make the deal happen. I don't think the city should have put any direct money in. I'm ok with the CRL, because it was implemented specifically for the rink, and the ticket surcharge, but straight cash homey from the city shouldn't have been part of the deal.

I think there is going to be a lot of opposition to CalgaryNEXT. Nenshi is tactfully opposed to straight cash contribution from the city. Calgary already has a CRL which makes funneling cash from their CRL into the project a different animal than we had here. The Flames are asking for twice as much direct cash from the city as opposed to what Edmonton kicked in. $200 million straight out of taxpayers pockets in the middle of the worst oil crash ever? Yeah, not gonna happen.

 

[Halibut]

I am surprised at some of the comments here.

Katz bought the Oilers - he owes fans nothing when it comes to "face time" - he hires people to do that for him. How often do you see majority shareholders of Coca-Cola or Gap showing up in commercials or giving interviews? How often is Katz involved with publicity around Rexall?

I don't understand the illogical expectation that he should do anything else...

Chia's job is not to provide day-to-day updates. You will see him when the organization has something to announce - and on key days like the TDL and off-season. TMac is the day-to-day face of the organization.

If you don't like the product, stop "buying" it - as many have done...

Agreed. Let him open that big new building as an empty barn and there will be action. As long as we keep lapping up the hope for the future they'll keep shovelling it.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Your comparison doesn't hold together. Katz is the owner. He is Chia's boss.

Shareholders are collective owners of a publicly traded company. The analogy doesn't apply at all.

I agree with you about putting public money into the project.

Katz put in the money to make the deal happen. I don't think the city should have put any direct money in. I'm ok with the CRL, because it was implemented specifically for the rink, and the ticket surcharge, but straight cash homey from the city shouldn't have been part of the deal.

I think there is going to be a lot of opposition to CalgaryNEXT. Nenshi is tactfully opposed to straight cash contribution from the city. Calgary already has a CRL which makes funneling cash from their CRL into the project a different animal than we had here. The Flames are asking for twice as much direct cash from the city as opposed to what Edmonton kicked in. $200 million straight out of taxpayers pockets in the middle of the worst oil crash ever? Yeah, not gonna happen.

Doesn't help that they need to spend hundreds of millions to make the land for Calgary next even usable

 

[Lacaar]

This team was hardly any good when the EIG ran them either.

But witch hunters going to witch hunt.....

 

[shoop]

Doesn't help that they need to spend hundreds of millions to make the land for Calgary next even usable

Or that the land has been contaminated since the plant shut down in 1962.

That's oddly an upside to this project. Nobody bothered to rehabilitate the land for 50+ years as the contamination progressively got worse.

If CalgaryNEXT doesn't go ahead will this land ever get cleaned up?

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Or that the land has been contaminated since the plant shut down in 1962.

That's oddly an upside to this project. Nobody bothered to rehabilitate the land for 50+ years as the contamination progressively got worse.

If CalgaryNEXT doesn't go ahead will this land ever get cleaned up?

The project costs 800mill+ the cost of cleaning up the land. When all is said and done it will cost over a billion.

 

[McWeber]

The project costs 800mill+ the cost of cleaning up the land. When all is said and done it will cost over a billion.

I thought that estimation included the cost of the decontamination.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I thought that estimation included the cost of the decontamination.

Nope. I mean they are building a new hockey rink and football stadium together so it makes sense but it's still a **** ton of money.

 

[Replacement*]

Are you implying that you, and the rest of the Oiler fanbase, are shareholders? You are not. You are customers. You have no idea how Chia is reporting to his shareholder (Katz).



I don't live in Edmonton, so my opinion on spending public dollars for a new arena shouldn't be relevant... but, at the end of the day, Katz put in big dollars for a leading sports facility that will arguable revitalize the downtown core.

This wouldn't happen without him.

Katz didn't front any money on this arena other than some land costs which were sold to him, by the city, at less than market rate. The 100K he *invested* in the arena is actually a LOAN from the city in which he pays something in the order of 5% interest on which he will get in returns for him getting all revenues from the arena. NOT just hockey games ALL EVENTS.

Am I a shareholder. No, are you? But ticket buying public, especially STH ARE shareholders in this reasonable analogy and Katz is not by any means a shareholder he is the owner of the company. Chia is the GM of the Oilers. Neither are shareholders. How you could misconstrue this basic comparison so badly is beyond me.

So yeah, STH are most certainly shareholders in the Oilers without which the team doesn't bother to play and isn't in the league. I could denote as well that most of these are locked in to the tune of around 30-50K out of pocket and with even that kind outlay suggestive of shareholding. This is no minor commitment. We're talking 10-15K ticket price locked in for a minimum 3 years must pay contract.

Customers implies a casual, ONLY consumer relationship with team and usually not involving this kind of $. Investing the above kind of outlay on a team and with the only dividend being how the team performs its again not an unreasonable analogy. In effect, with the way the arena deal is made up, and with a non regressive ticket surcharge setup on the basis of STH cost, to the tune of 100M invested, yeah, its an investment in the Arena, in the Oilers net worth. That speaks shareholders to me.

Perhaps you don't know all that.

 

[Replacement*]

Your comparison doesn't hold together. Katz is the owner. He is Chia's boss.

Shareholders are collective owners of a publicly traded company. The analogy doesn't apply at all.

I agree with you about putting public money into the project.

Katz put in the money to make the deal happen. I don't think the city should have put any direct money in. I'm ok with the CRL, because it was implemented specifically for the rink, and the ticket surcharge, but straight cash homey from the city shouldn't have been part of the deal.

I think there is going to be a lot of opposition to CalgaryNEXT. Nenshi is tactfully opposed to straight cash contribution from the city. Calgary already has a CRL which makes funneling cash from their CRL into the project a different animal than we had here. The Flames are asking for twice as much direct cash from the city as opposed to what Edmonton kicked in. $200 million straight out of taxpayers pockets in the middle of the worst oil crash ever? Yeah, not gonna happen.

I wouldn't conclude that so summarily. STH are invested heavily into this team. Again to the tune of 30-45K over the course of 3 seasons and with this contractually signed. Combine this with the ticket surcharge as per arena deal representing a possible 100M outlay TOWARDS the Arena financing. So in fact the ticket surcharge represents investment into the arena, to reimburse part of the COE expenditure, who are in fact the owners of the arena financing a significant part of the outlay through the ticket surcharge which all ticket holders must pay.

I wouldn't make the argument were it not for the non regressive (pegged at 7% afairc of ticket price) ticket surcharge.

STH also receive dividends in the form of tickets, resellable, first dibs on any other events, options to purchase more, they obtain other privileged information, STH reports and information from the org others are not privy to. They get proprietary access rights no one else has, proprietary service, as well as other benefits. Even arguably monetary return as STH are able, again to sell any tickets at profit, and are able to buy other high demand events and sell at discretion. Which many actually do as an act towards financing their investment. Any STH that has sold a Maple Leafs ticket for hundreds of bucks has engaged in this arguable dividend sale. Any STH that is even selling face value tickets is obtaining a markup dividend amount upon sale.



While in name STH are not shareholders an argument can be made that they are in this particular example. The relationship is at least somewhat similar.

 

[shoop]

While in name STH are not shareholders an argument can be made that they are in this particular example. The relationship is at least somewhat similar.

STH's are customers. Not shareholders.

Especially when there is a wait list for season tickets. What power does a STH really have if there are literally people waiting in line to replace them if they don't want to purchase tickets the following season?

I think STH's had a lot more power in the mid-90s when the rink was empty every night with vast numbers of unsold tickets.

Now when we see empty seats it's because no one could be bothered to use their company tickets knowing the Oilers were going to be blown out.

It's unfortunate fans don't have the power they think they deserve. Just the way it is.

 

[rboomercat90]

Or that the land has been contaminated since the plant shut down in 1962.

That's oddly an upside to this project. Nobody bothered to rehabilitate the land for 50+ years as the contamination progressively got worse.

If CalgaryNEXT doesn't go ahead will this land ever get cleaned up?

Hard to imagine it ever would if the city won't do it for a project like this.

 

[Kevotron]

I wonder if this season we were a .500 club would this thread even existed

 

[McBooya42]

Katz didn't front any money on this arena other than some land costs which were sold to him, by the city, at less than market rate. The 100K he *invested* in the arena is actually a LOAN from the city in which he pays something in the order of 5% interest on which he will get in returns for him getting all revenues from the arena. NOT just hockey games ALL EVENTS.

Am I a shareholder. No, are you? But ticket buying public, especially STH ARE shareholders in this reasonable analogy and Katz is not by any means a shareholder he is the owner of the company. Chia is the GM of the Oilers. Neither are shareholders. How you could misconstrue this basic comparison so badly is beyond me.

So yeah, STH are most certainly shareholders in the Oilers without which the team doesn't bother to play and isn't in the league. I could denote as well that most of these are locked in to the tune of around 30-50K out of pocket and with even that kind outlay suggestive of shareholding. This is no minor commitment. We're talking 10-15K ticket price locked in for a minimum 3 years must pay contract.

Customers implies a casual, ONLY consumer relationship with team and usually not involving this kind of $. Investing the above kind of outlay on a team and with the only dividend being how the team performs its again not an unreasonable analogy. In effect, with the way the arena deal is made up, and with a non regressive ticket surcharge setup on the basis of STH cost, to the tune of 100M invested, yeah, its an investment in the Arena, in the Oilers net worth. That speaks shareholders to me.

Perhaps you don't know all that.

So, this isn't a joke thread??!!

Ok then...so with your statement here Replacement, are you deliberately not mentioning the 1.67 billion that the Katz group has invested into the downtown revitalization project? Is that on purpose, or is it that it doesn't suit your version of the story where Katz hasn't put anything of real value into the project?

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...district-in-the-history-of-such-mega-projects

On the EIG side, why isn't anyone mentioning how we're just now recovering for not having an actual farm team while they ran the show? This team wouldn't be here in Edmonton if those Northlands shills were still running the show (yeah I went there and said that).

 

[shoop]

So, this isn't a joke thread??!!

Ok then...so with your statement here Replacement, are you deliberately not mentioning the 1.67 billion that the Katz group has invested into the downtown revitalization project? Is that on purpose, or is it that it doesn't suit your version of the story where Katz hasn't put anything of real value into the project?

He's pulling your chain. Starting a fight for the sake of it.

Hard to imagine it ever would if the city won't do it for a project like this.

Eventually that creosote contaminated site will be cleaned up. Doesn't necessarily have to be paid for by the City of Calgary. In this economy, and with Nenshi as mayor, City money won't be poured into this project. There might be a little give on the CRL. Ticket levy is a given. No direct government money.

 

[Replacement*]

So, this isn't a joke thread??!!

Ok then...so with your statement here Replacement, are you deliberately not mentioning the 1.67 billion that the Katz group has invested into the downtown revitalization project? Is that on purpose, or is it that it doesn't suit your version of the story where Katz hasn't put anything of real value into the project?

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...district-in-the-history-of-such-mega-projects

On the EIG side, why isn't anyone mentioning how we're just now recovering for not having an actual farm team while they ran the show? This team wouldn't be here in Edmonton if those Northlands shills were still running the show (yeah I went there and said that).

Did you specifically miss I stated what Katz put into the arena. That's what we were talking about not the corollary LATER investments that Katz will actually own.

In anycase that's Staples citing the unique accounting there. Leave it at this I don't subscribe to those numbers.

If you want to believe Blacks numbers, who works directly for Katz, you are perfectly free to do so.

 

[rboomercat90]

He's pulling your chain. Starting a fight for the sake of it.



Eventually that creosote contaminated site will be cleaned up. Doesn't necessarily have to be paid for by the City of Calgary. In this economy, and with Nenshi as mayor, City money won't be poured into this project. There might be a little give on the CRL. Ticket levy is a given. No direct government money.

You may be more familiar with Calgary next then I am but I thought I read somewhere that when the city bought that land years ago they became responsible for the cost of the cleanup. Main reason being there's nobody still around that was responsible for it. I admit, I could be wrong about this. If the city isn't going to pay for it as you suggest, who will?

 

[shoop]

You may be more familiar with Calgary next then I am but I thought I read somewhere that when the city bought that land years ago they became responsible for the cost of the cleanup. Main reason being there's nobody still around that was responsible for it. I admit, I could be wrong about this. If the city isn't going to pay for it as you suggest, who will?

It was a Domtar plant when it closed. Domtar is still in operation. There may be an agreement when the city took the land over they were responsible for it.

It's a pretty prime location. A lot of development went on in the East village during the just passed boom. Maybe it will be worth developing the West village (proposed site for CalgaryNEXT) in the next boom?

Give a developer the land free or cheap on the condition they rehabilitate it? At some point it will be worth it to someone.

 

[slaman]

Your comparison doesn't hold together. Katz is the owner. He is Chia's boss.

Shareholders are collective owners of a publicly traded company. The analogy doesn't apply at all.

My post was making two separate points. Katz is the shareholder of the Oilers, not us...

A second, unrelated, point I was making was in regards to the public funding of a sports complex in the city's core.

 

[Debonair]

I don't know what you guys are smoking - if we had Katz back then we would have kept Cujo, Weight, Guerin, etc. EIG was just as loyal to Lowe if not more. If we had EIG now we would already be talking about WHEN we are losing McDavid (because we cant afford him) not IF.

 

[McBooya42]

Did you specifically miss I stated what Katz put into the arena. That's what we were talking about not the corollary LATER investments that Katz will actually own.

In anycase that's Staples citing the unique accounting there. Leave it at this I don't subscribe to those numbers.

If you want to believe Blacks numbers, who works directly for Katz, you are perfectly free to do so.

1. What he did to fund the arena for his part of it is really no different than getting a bank loan to fund your business launch before paying it back. I have no qualms about it, and most people don't either.
2. Don't be disingenuous...it's unsightly, and looks petty. Do you seriously doubt the investment being made by the Katz group to the arena district? Unique accounting....please.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ns-to-fill-a-32-million-budget-hole-1.3073460
- Is CBC more reliable for you?

Of course he'll own the investments...he's the one investing into them. Kinda funny how you bring that up while at the same time questioning how much he's even investing. Seems to me like it's just you being the classic Replacement that we all expect on HF Oil here...

 

[Replacement*]

1. What he did to fund the arena for his part of it is really no different than getting a bank loan to fund your business launch before paying it back. I have no qualms about it, and most people don't either.
2. Don't be disingenuous...it's unsightly, and looks petty. Do you seriously doubt the investment being made by the Katz group to the arena district? Unique accounting....please.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ns-to-fill-a-32-million-budget-hole-1.3073460
- Is CBC more reliable for you?

Of course he'll own the investments...he's the one investing into them. Kinda funny how you bring that up while at the same time questioning how much he's even investing. Seems to me like it's just you being the classic Replacement that we all expect on HF Oil here...

Katz is making money for himself, kind of what he always does. Would be a little harder to cajole the city into funding all of his high rise development there, although the COE of course are moving into one of his buildings and being a primary paying tenant there anyway.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Katz is making money for himself, kind of what he always does. Would be a little harder to cajole the city into funding all of his high rise development there, although the COE of course are moving into one of his buildings and being a primary paying tenant there anyway.

The arena has sparked a bunch of condo complexes and created jobs in the city.

He is making money for himself by improving the city in the process..

 

[Replacement*]

The arena has sparked a bunch of condo complexes and created jobs in the city.

He is making money for himself by improving the city in the process..

Possibly.

Those developments are not completed yet. The renders, designs, numbers, might be flights of fantasy. Nothing is completed yet. Most haven't been started yet.

I'll hold on with some scepticism for now.

If this truly transforms Edmonton in a positive way I'll be here when it does and say so.

That said I don't like " LA Live" type developments too much. Certainly wouldn't fork over hard earned to live there.