It's time to bring the EIG back!

[VoiceOfReason]

Talk about rose covered glasses. The EIG was a penny pinching miser of a group that decimated the development system of the franchise, scorched the relationship between the franchise and the NHLPA, and were the ones that actually hired the incompetent idiots who ran this franchise into the ground in the first place.

It's also a bit of wishful thinking, as the EIG itself was already starting to fall apart by the time Katz came around. It was an aging group with a poor investment model with no real benefits, one that was struggling to bring in new members. They would have been forced to sell within a few years anyways.

The EIG was responsible for keeping the Oilers in Edmonton when the CDN dollar and no-salary cap made it difficult to compete. The EIG model of diversity and translating would have worked under a more even playing field. I simply want to see some accountability at the top--something we haven't seen since Katz took over.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

The EIG was responsible for keeping the Oilers in Edmonton when the CDN dollar and no-salary cap made it difficult to compete. The EIG model of diversity and translating would have worked under a more even playing field. I simply want to see some accountability at the top--something we haven't seen since Katz took over.

Gary Bettman kept the Oilers here.

The EIG were bad and one of the huge reasons we are in this mess

 

[Tarus]

Gary Bettman kept the Oilers here.

The EIG were bad and one of the huge reasons we are in this mess

Bettman had a part in getting it approved, but the City council from that era deserves some credit. Getting the clause put in that required Pocklington to sell to a local group at a lower cost during his last round of blackmail over renovations and arena revenue, really was a stroke of brilliant foresight.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Gary Bettman kept the Oilers here.

The EIG were bad and one of the huge reasons we are in this mess

Bettman works on behalf of the owners. How much of his own money way put on the table? Nichols was one of the most vocal owners in the NHL pre 2004/05 lockout about the need for a cap and parity! Thanks for coming out though

 

[McShogun99]

I doubt you'll see Katz ordering star players to get traded because it's time to give them a raise. This years team had horrible luck with injuries, it's really 2-3 pieces away from being a respectable team.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Bettman works on behalf of the owners. How much of his own money way put on the table? Nichols was one of the most vocal owners in the NHL pre 2004/05 lockout about the need for a cap and parity! Thanks for coming out though

Are you part of the EIG?

 

[K1984]

Are you kidding?
Lowe was doing fine on a budget. No worse than any other GMs, until CFP ****ed us all that is. MacT was not a problem during EIG years period.
You honestly think two guys who bled for the crest would willingly disgrace it the way its been disgraced in recent years? No, they wouldn't.
How about a guy who probably can't even skate and lives in Vancouver? Think he cares about the crest?

Except Lowe and MacT did disgrace the crest. Did your memory get erased?

 

[BlowbyBlow]

D

Its fairpoint. EIG were notoriously bad at raising cash, accruing interested investment, or lobbying for the same. albeit with credit to Nichols who had to work very hard to get much investors interested in this horse. But alas at a time when the economy was just bad here.

All that said its possible that EIG would have developed a pointman somewhat better than Cals kick tires approach.


Although I could be dreaming there. Few would match Katz salesmanship savvy. But that's what he is a buyer and seller of fortune. Hockey being a sometimes amusing pastime.

E.I.G. were guys who don't come from the corporate world that Katz comes from, with the same amount of money to do and say what you want. You can read books about business, marketing, sales, but until you have money, then negotiations and marketing and all of that becomes easier.

E.I.G. also had Nichols and Laforge who after the Pronger fiasco became P.R. nightmares. They had a sympathetic fanbase because of financial restraints, but they would have kept an old core going forward and had a 20th place hockey club.

Another comment is that a related "Peter Principle" is that "change is good donkey" actually operates. Changing something, anything, offers the appearance of doing something. New managers change, reset, go with their own guys. This does not equate to better, it equates to change for change sake. But the illusion is progress, performing, making meaningful decisions. The delta change differentiation between Nelson and McLellan is not meaningful.

meanwhile, the players, who have had a new coach virtually every year were made to have new coaches when guys like Krueger, Nelson, were incumbents that weren't the problem.

Troubleshooting, as a rule, should be about fixing problems, filling leaks. Not fixing what was working.

The thing that you left out is not having a plan. Plain & Simple.

We heard about you need 5 years for a rebuild, and it didn't start till here. Then you had sympathizers say MacT had to fix Tambellin's mess, and much more the same now with Chia.

Is being patient or being proactive a better approach. Brian Burke is an example of someone who will be very proactive and it works somewhat but then other times not. He had the Ducks roster win a cup largely with Brian Murrays drafted players, he also had T.O. in the basement, he was really good in Van, but they drafted well enough with the Sedins/Kesler getting Luongo.

If you look at CBJ another team that has traded many players Nash, Brassard, Gaborik, Johansen are names just off the top of my head, and they are where they are still.

When Feaster came to Calgary he drafted really well imo (Monahan, Ramo, Gaudreau and others) don't say Jankowski haha

I think it's dumb to outline deadline, timelines to the public. or say your looking to trade or do this, that or the other.

You shouldn't have group think tanks. The Oilers and many teams, and many companies do, but i have noticed being in that situation, and call me old nostalgic it's usually one guy that knows better than everyone -- it's the classic Cliff Fletcher knowing Brett Hull will be good

This is more to expound on the fact that as a scouting staff your evaluating over time who has the best insight and who sees the most results. I like the old scout for Tom Brady (sadly passed on) He always said Brady that was my guy (only one guy on the Patriots staff who said he's my guy)

It's also to break down hierarchy at all levels in your company by just saying Stu Macgregor knows better than everyone else. It's why the Oilers will draft guys from the Oil Kings or the W, instead of looking at Europe, or college, or other levels. Within the Oilers brass there comfortable with doing the status quo (I guess it is worse when they used to go off the deep end with picks)

Change usually means that they aren't any more progressive than someone else they just look here instead of there; especially when it relates to scouting, drafting, player development.

Analogy is like when you go ask your stock broker about some stocks he likes the energy sector. Another one will tell you biotech, pharmaceuticals. Neither tells me what at the time is better there telling me what they pick - basically what there comfortable with

Change also never deals with what is working and what's not working. Woodcroft has sucked this year why wouldn't he look at what made the Oiler's successful with another coach. It's why you have to cringe at coaches they all could learn alot from one another and yet it's really a gated community.

 

[oobga]

The loss of accountability in management is what started the long downfall of this team. Lowe was able to hide in the background as POHO and he sat back and let Tambo run the team into the ground, then he hired his unqualified buddy to replace Tambo when he thought the tide finally turned in his rebuild. Just ridiculous all around, those were not moves that someone with any fear of losing their job for failing would do.

I think we finally have some accountability back though, I don't think Katz can ignore the AB economy combined with the team still sucking possibly leading to a not full arena.

 

[Tarus]

The loss of accountability in management is what started the long downfall of this team. Lowe was able to hide in the background as POHO and he sat back and let Tambo run the team into the ground, then he hired his unqualified buddy to replace Tambo when he thought the tide finally turned in his rebuild. Just ridiculous all around, those were not moves that someone with any fear of losing their job for failing would do.

I think we finally have some accountability back though, I don't think Katz can ignore the AB economy combined with the team still sucking possibly leading to a not full arena.

Edmonton has never had management accountability. Sather had a job for life until EIG infighting over the budget ousted him, and he was perfectly content to keep his buddies around and employed no matter how poorly they performed throughout the 90s. Don't have to look much further than the lost decade of drafting from Fraser, or the sequence of coach hirings in the late 90s(Ron Low, Kevin Lowe, and Mactavish) to find evidence of that

Lowe, Katz, and EIG merely perpetuated that culture of cronyism. It just seems worse as they had a larger pool of former players they wanted to give jobs to.

 

[oobga]

Edmonton has never had management accountability. Sather had a job for life until EIG infighting over the budget ousted him, and he was perfectly content to keep his buddies around and employed no matter how poorly they performed throughout the 90s. Don't have to look much further than the lost decade of drafting from Fraser, or the sequence of coach hirings in the late 90s(Ron Low, Kevin Lowe, and Mactavish) to find evidence of that

Lowe, Katz, and EIG merely perpetuated that culture of cronyism. It just seems worse as they had a larger pool of former players they wanted to give jobs to.

I think Lowe was pressured by the EIG to make a product that would fill the stands. And Lowe's job was much more challenging without the level playing field before the lockout brought the salary cap. I think those extra challenges motivated Lowe to do a better job. Maybe accountability is the wrong word, I guess I should just say he had people challenging him more to do a good job. With Katz as owner though, feet up on the desk, new job title to hide away and let someone else take the heat, no more worries...for half a dozen years or so at least. Fan keep buying all the tickets no matter how bad the team is. Complacency takes over.

 

[smackdaddy]

Wait, so we're advocating that Katz interfere as a meddling owner now? I thought that's what we wanted to avoid?

 

[Tarus]

I think Lowe was pressured by the EIG to make a product that would fill the stands. And Lowe's job was much more challenging without the level playing field before the lockout brought the salary cap. I think those extra challenges motivated Lowe to do a better job. Maybe accountability is the wrong word, I guess I should just say he had people challenging him more to do a good job. With Katz as owner though, feet up on the desk, new job title to hide away and let someone else take the heat, no more worries...for half a dozen years or so at least. Fan keep buying all the tickets no matter how bad the team is. Complacency takes over.

I doubt it was complacency. Sather suffered a similar fate in NY when the budgetary constraints were lifted; he simply didn't know how to function under a system where financial considerations weren't the primary concern of every transaction and fixated on signing every name player who would answer his calls.

You could see a similar shift when the lockout ended with the Oilers. The goal was not to put together a competitive team and compete for the playoffs, the goal was changed to "win a cup because we can compete finacially now!", and Lowe clearly became fixated on trying to hit a homerun with virtually every transaction. It worked once with Pronger coming out of the lockout(sadly, reinforcing flawed belief systems within the management group), but it also decimated the franchise going forward when aging and declining core of the team was neglected in favor of chasing rainbows every offseason.

Something to keep in mind as well; the Oilers were the absolute laughing stock of the NHL during the 2006 and 2007 offseasons, years that Katz wasn't yet influencing the hockey operations.

 

[PersuasiveSteve]

Honestly what did we think would happen this year?

We picked up 2 or 3 pieces and Connor McDavid but we knew when we got TMac and PC that it would likely mean we would head in the right direction but ultimately wouldn't make the playoffs.

I think things LOOK positive. It's all going the right way but we weren't going to just start winning because we changed a few things. We have a lot of extra baggage, J Schultz, N Nikitin, T Purcell. We have a lot of players developing and getting to professional levels, Nurse, Draisaitl, Klefbom. And tons of injuries McDavid, RNH, Klefbom. We need some key pieces and to rid ourselves of the baggage. We are steps away to playoffs but it won't be immediate and PC or Katz need to grow a pair and ship off some of the young guns to get what we need in return. It will happen.

 

[joestevens29]

Lol so with the economy in the ****ter the best thing for the Oilers would be to bring back an ownership group that could barely afford to spend money 10 years ago?

 

[slaman]

I am surprised at some of the comments here.

Katz bought the Oilers - he owes fans nothing when it comes to "face time" - he hires people to do that for him. How often do you see majority shareholders of Coca-Cola or Gap showing up in commercials or giving interviews? How often is Katz involved with publicity around Rexall?

I don't understand the illogical expectation that he should do anything else...

Chia's job is not to provide day-to-day updates. You will see him when the organization has something to announce - and on key days like the TDL and off-season. TMac is the day-to-day face of the organization.

If you don't like the product, stop "buying" it - as many have done...

 

[Replacement*]

Honestly what did we think would happen this year?

We picked up 2 or 3 pieces and Connor McDavid but we knew when we got TMac and PC that it would likely mean we would head in the right direction but ultimately wouldn't make the playoffs.

I think things LOOK positive. It's all going the right way but we weren't going to just start winning because we changed a few things. We have a lot of extra baggage, J Schultz, N Nikitin, T Purcell. We have a lot of players developing and getting to professional levels, Nurse, Draisaitl, Klefbom. And tons of injuries McDavid, RNH, Klefbom. We need some key pieces and to rid ourselves of the baggage. We are steps away to playoffs but it won't be immediate and PC or Katz need to grow a pair and ship off some of the young guns to get what we need in return. It will happen.

Not really all that persuasive. We're as bad as ever somehow but WITH McDavid, Drai, Nurse, playing. Its uncanny we could have those 3 in the lineup and not be improved.

I am surprised at some of the comments here.

Katz bought the Oilers - he owes fans nothing when it comes to "face time" - he hires people to do that for him. How often do you see majority shareholders of Coca-Cola or Gap showing up in commercials or giving interviews? How often is Katz involved with publicity around Rexall?

I don't understand the illogical expectation that he should do anything else...

Chia's job is not to provide day-to-day updates. You will see him when the organization has something to announce - and on key days like the TDL and off-season. TMac is the day-to-day face of the organization.

If you don't like the product, stop "buying" it - as many have done...

People expect the owner to at least care about the hockey product. But that's not his bottom line..

This is the first time Edmonton, which was somewhat of a small town type city has had such a disconnected owner. We've had invested owners before. Somehow people thought that was a problem as well. I'd rather have that.

As far as Chia "day to day" lol. How about quarter by quarter as the team tanks again and is the worst team in the league. Any business that acted this way to their shareholders...

We know whats going on, they can't even be bothered. Dupe the ticket buying public into getting all their seats for the new arena guaranteed and contracted for the next 3 years and its "what, me worry"


of course all those that empowered that should probably think about it as well. I told this org to GTFO along time ago.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Not really all that persuasive. We're as bad as ever somehow but WITH McDavid, Drai, Nurse, playing. Its uncanny we could have those 3 in the lineup and not be improved.



People expect the owner to at least care about the hockey product. But that's not his bottom line..

This is the first time Edmonton, which was somewhat of a small town type city has had such a disconnected owner. We've had invested owners before. Somehow people thought that was a problem as well. I'd rather have that.

As far as Chia "day to day" lol. How about quarter by quarter as the team tanks again and is the worst team in the league. Any business that acted this way to their shareholders...

We know whats going on, they can't even be bothered. Dupe the ticket buying public into getting all their seats for the new arena guaranteed and contracted for the next 3 years and its "what, me worry"


of course all those that empowered that should probably think about it as well. I told this org to GTFO along time ago.

Yet you still watch and care about the product..

 

[shoop]

E.I.G. were guys who don't come from the corporate world that Katz comes from, with the same amount of money to do and say what you want. You can read books about business, marketing, sales, but until you have money, then negotiations and marketing and all of that becomes easier.

What corporate world are you talking about?

The members or EIG were all very successful businessmen. They were all very well connected in the city and province. Millionaires but not billionaires. They still had cash and a earned it from a little more than book learning. Let's look at the business experience of some of the members of EIG.

• Ed Bean - Owner of Crystal Glass
• Tim Melton - Owner of Melcor, own that little strip mall known as Edmonton city centre
• Ron Hodgson - A car dealership or two.
• Jim Hole - Hole's greenhouse among the most prominent of businesses. Son to Lois Hole, i.e. former Lieutenant Governor

Sure. They didn't have the cash to own the team outright, but they all had far more experience and success as businessmen than any poster here.

Cash was the problem with the EIG. None of the investors had enough individually. More than a few were stretched thin when cash calls were made.

The 'lack' of individual cash lead to a very awkward organization. All these guys were successful as the man in their companies. No one else to be accountable to. As a collective entity it just didn't work.

Large ownership groups like this simply do not work. The EIG was the largest collection of owners of a team in the four major North American sports leagues ever. There is a reason for that.

(The Green Bay Packers is kind of an exception, but their 'ownership' is a bit of a scam. You can buy a share during public offerings, but it's really just paying for memorabilia because owners have no legal right to sell or transfer their 'shares' to anyone but family members.)

You can't have that many cooks in the kitchen. It just doesn't work.

Whatever people think of Katz, returning to some updated version of the E.I.G. is absolutely not the answer.

 

[oXo Cube]

Katz has come with more than his fair share of baggage but let's not pretend the EIG was a good ownership group. The only reason they weren't Pocklington 2.0 is they only had a Weight to trade for scraps instead of a Gretzky.

Edmontonians got jobbed on the arena deal but I doubt EIG would have offered a penny towards the project. They couldn't afford to.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Katz has come with more than his fair share of baggage but let's not pretend the EIG was a good ownership group. The only reason they weren't Pocklington 2.0 is they only had a Weight to trade for scraps instead of a Gretzky.

Edmontonians got jobbed on the arena deal but I doubt EIG would have offered a penny towards the project. They couldn't afford to.

They probably would of attempted to renovate Rexall again or the team would be moving to Vegas

 

[Replacement*]

Yet you still watch and care about the product..

I don't reinforce this carnival with my pocketbook.

Hey, note how one of Katz due dilligences was ensuring Rexall could not be the home of a competing sports team as part of the arena deal. I find that interesting.

Because damned straight if another league and hockey team entered in here, even a Canadian league, or a real World Hockey Association I would switch brands. sorry McDavid.

 

[PBandJ]

Hey, note how one of Katz due dilligences was ensuring Rexall could not be the home of a competing sports team as part of the arena deal. I find that interesting.

Basically the only thing that can be done is demo it because the city can't help do anything with it, or risk violating the contract.

Thanks City Council.

 

[shoop]

I don't reinforce this carnival with my pocketbook.

Hey, note how one of Katz due dilligences was ensuring Rexall could not be the home of a competing sports team as part of the arena deal. I find that interesting.

Because damned straight if another league and hockey team entered in here, even a Canadian league, or a real World Hockey Association I would switch brands. sorry McDavid.

That's a very interesting point. Do you have a link or anything to that? I would be interested to see the context for that.

Wasn't the WHA name used again for some attempt at a competing league during the 2004-05 lockout? I vaguely remember that.

In theory a competing league could have tried at Rexall. Maybe. There are so many reasons a competing league wouldn't work. Guess that makes it a pretty theoretical consideration.

 

[slaman]

People expect the owner to at least care about the hockey product. But that's not his bottom line..

This is the first time Edmonton, which was somewhat of a small town type city has had such a disconnected owner. We've had invested owners before. Somehow people thought that was a problem as well. I'd rather have that.

As far as Chia "day to day" lol. How about quarter by quarter as the team tanks again and is the worst team in the league. Any business that acted this way to their shareholders...

Are you implying that you, and the rest of the Oiler fanbase, are shareholders? You are not. You are customers. You have no idea how Chia is reporting to his shareholder (Katz).

We know whats going on, they can't even be bothered. Dupe the ticket buying public into getting all their seats for the new arena guaranteed and contracted for the next 3 years and its "what, me worry"

of course all those that empowered that should probably think about it as well. I told this org to GTFO along time ago.

I don't live in Edmonton, so my opinion on spending public dollars for a new arena shouldn't be relevant... but, at the end of the day, Katz put in big dollars for a leading sports facility that will arguable revitalize the downtown core.

This wouldn't happen without him.