Buffalo Bills It's the Off-Season. Go.

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Husko

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Vote Fautanu, add Jordan Morgan. Choosing an add was really tough here.

I'm telling every single one of you guys though... You're sleeping on this OL class. It's every bit as deep as the WR class imo - maybe even more so.

I don't get how JPJ went so early (too early imo) yet everyone else is languishing so far behind.

Case in point - I'm still waiting to vote for Barton. I'd definitely have him ahead of Mitchell, McConkey, both outside corners & Newton. Bowers too given we already have Knox/Kincaid.

In fact - if the Bills do end up going OL early - Barton's going to be the pick imo. Genuine 5 position flexibility, plus athleticism (9.99 for the RAS guys), relatively young for an OL, they've met with him but not JPJ. The only thing JPJ has going for him is the wrestling background.
That and the fact that he’s a better player
 

Jim Bob

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I'm with you right up until the last paragraph. But I'd honestly rather trade every single pick in the next two drafts for Odunze instead of the bolded.

Drafting three different players at the same position with such high picks would be bad asset management on an absolutely staggering scale. What are you going to do, invent a new base 6 WR formation? Or maybe sub out Allen & have one of the WRs throw instead? :laugh:
Today they have:

Samuel
Shakir
Hollins
Shorter

And then guys like Hamler, Isabella, Shavers, and Thompson.

Adding two WRs in the draft is not poor asset management given that they have lost 4 of their top 6 WRs from last season and only added Samuel and Hollins so far.

Hollins only signed a one year deal and who knows what Shorter will be. So, adding an early pick at WR last year could easily fill a need. Especially if one of the two they draft this year looks questionable after their rookie year.

They need to get younger and cheaper at WR. And that needs to be adding more than one good WR over the next two drafts, IMO.
 
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Rowley Birkin

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That and the fact that he’s a better player
I'm not completely sure about that. Barton has been rising up boards to the point that it could be a debate. JPJ is basically a lot more proven & it's tougher to project a guy who's exclusively played tackle in college. I think JPJ would be a great pick. But for the reasons i listed above - i think Barton is their choice if using an early pick at the position.

Today they have:

Samuel
Shakir
Hollins
Shorter

And then guys like Hamler, Isabella, Shavers, and Thompson.

Adding two WRs in the draft is not poor asset management given that they have lost 4 of their top 6 WRs from last season and only added Samuel and Hollins so far.

Hollins only signed a one year deal and who knows what Shorter will be. So, adding an early pick at WR last year could easily fill a need. Especially if one of the two they draft this year looks questionable after their rookie year.

They need to get younger and cheaper at WR. And that needs to be adding more than one good WR over the next two drafts, IMO.
You failed to mention Kincaid & Knox which is disingenuous. Both are going to play a lot of snaps. If anyone becomes the focal point this offence - it's going to be Kincaid..

In terms of the WR depth chart - not necessarily their playing styles:

-Shakir will most definitely improve, maybe to the point where he's an impact player himself.

-Shorter will make more of an impact, since last season was lost to injury. He's likely making the roster in some shape or form.

-Samuel already replaced Diggs.

-Hollins already replaced Sherfield.

-They absolutely need to draft a guy to replace Davis - ideally with a top 60 pick, this is obvious.

-They... maybe need a guy to replace Harty - although it's possible that a Hamler or Isabella steps up to make the roster. Even if you draft somebody to fill this role - it's going to be a day 3 pick. A guy like Ainias Smith. You don't need to use a top 60 pick here.

You then reevaluate next offseason.

To say at this point that they have to use three top 60 picks in two years at the position.... is outright wrong. I think you have been consuming too much Bills media.
 

Jim Bob

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I'm not completely sure about that. Barton has been rising up boards to the point that it could be a debate. JPJ is basically a lot more proven & it's tougher to project a guy who's exclusively played tackle in college. I think JPJ would be a great pick. But for the reasons i listed above - i think Barton is their choice if using an early pick at the position.


You failed to mention Kincaid & Knox which is disingenuous. Both are going to play a lot of snaps. If anyone becomes the focal point this offence - it's going to be Kincaid..

In terms of the WR depth chart - not necessarily their playing styles:

-Shakir will most definitely improve, maybe to the point where he's an impact player himself.

-Shorter will make more of an impact, since last season was lost to injury. He's likely making the roster in some shape or form.

-Samuel already replaced Diggs.

-Hollins already replaced Sherfield.

-They absolutely need to draft a guy to replace Davis - ideally with a top 60 pick, this is obvious.

-They... maybe need a guy to replace Harty - although it's possible that a Hamler or Isabella steps up to make the roster. Even if you draft somebody to fill this role - it's going to be a day 3 pick. A guy like Ainias Smith. You don't need to use a top 60 pick here.

You then reevaluate next offseason.

To say at this point that they have to use three top 60 picks in two years at the position.... is outright wrong. I think you have been consuming too much Bills media.
If you think Samuel replaces Diggs, then I think you have been consuming something. And there should be no reason to try and get a top 3 WR this year by giving up a massive trade package.

And I am not saying that they HAVE to spend 3 1st or 2nd round picks in '24 and '25 on WRs. I'm just saying that I would prefer that if they were to spend that many premium picks on a WR, I would rather they not package all those picks for 1 WR and diversify their approach and make the WR room a lot deeper and cost effective.

I am not a big fan of trading a ton to go up for a top 3 WR or for trading for a veteran that wants a massive contract (Aiyuk, Higgins, etc.).
 

Husko

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It definitely wouldn't shock me if they double dipped at WR given the strength of the class. They have a history of double dipping:

2023: 2 OL
2022: 2 CB and 2 LB
2021: 2 DE and 2 OT (with their first 4 picks!)
2020: 2 WR
2019: 2 TE
2018: 2 NBs and 2 WRs
2017: 2 LBs

When they like a class and think it coincides with a long term organizational need, they love the double dip move.
 

Rowley Birkin

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If you think Samuel replaces Diggs, then I think you have been consuming something. And there should be no reason to try and get a top 3 WR this year by giving up a massive trade package.

And I am not saying that they HAVE to spend 3 1st or 2nd round picks in '24 and '25 on WRs. I'm just saying that I would prefer that if they were to spend that many premium picks on a WR, I would rather they not package all those picks for 1 WR and diversify their approach and make the WR room a lot deeper and cost effective.

I am not a big fan of trading a ton to go up for a top 3 WR or for trading for a veteran that wants a massive contract (Aiyuk, Higgins, etc.).
As said - i agree with the majority of what you are saying. Giving up the farm for a top 3 pick is dumb. Trading for an Aiyuk or a Higgins is dumb. Using three high end picks in two years at the same position... is also dumb. Making ANY type of panic move is dumb.

I posted earlier (around the time of the Diggs trade) re Samuel - essentially that signing him made a lot more sense to me with the knowledge that they would later move Diggs. I'm not saying that they are the same player - but you saw the way that Brady started to use Diggs towards the end of the year... That type of usage is tailor made for a guy like Samuel. Bills fans need to get familiar with the fact that NOBODY in this offence will ever be used like Daboll/Dorsey era Diggs. So we just need to stop trying to replace him. They are moving on from that for the greater good. @Der Jaeger (among others but most notably) has made some great posts in recent weeks regarding this.

It definitely wouldn't shock me if they double dipped at WR given the strength of the class. They have a history of double dipping:

2023: 2 OL
2022: 2 CB and 2 LB
2021: 2 DE and 2 OT (with their first 4 picks!)
2020: 2 WR
2019: 2 TE
2018: 2 NBs and 2 WRs
2017: 2 LBs

When they like a class and think it coincides with a long term organizational need, they love the double dip move.
Right. Drafting a guy day 1 or early day 2 who they envisage as a starter, then coming back later during day 3 to get a developmental guy/STer makes total sense.

Using three top 60 picks in two years is not the same as that. You could even argue that it would be four top 60 picks in three years, since Kincaid is essentially a receiver...

The only time this regime ever did anything like it was Epenesa/Rousseau/Basham & i think we can all agree by now that it was a mistake.
 

WeDislikeEich

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There's way too much information in the media about Beane trading up for a receiver. It doesn't make sense. Beane never leaks anything of substance.

It'll be interesting what he does.
Yeah I’m suspicious of all the trade up rumors too.

But I do remember a ton of rumors before the 2018 draft that the Bills were looking to trade up for Josh Allen and I remember dismissing them because of the same reasoning (that Beane doesn’t leak), trying to ease my fears we might draft Allen…lol. Thankfully they were true and Beane took the “wrong” Josh. lol
 
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SundherDome

Y'all have to much power
Jul 6, 2009
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Not sure why you'd "eeek!" that.

Guy may have taken a non-traditional route, but most national draftniks say he's worth a late round pick. McDermott are crew are CB whisperers, and I think we all here believe they're taking one later.

I'd prefer Devonshire or King or Newton as a later round CB......but I'd trust that McD and staff can coach up Stiggers.
He is one of my favorite prospects in this draft. Eeek is to show my excitement.

He's a day 3 moonshot pick. Would be a decent bet given the volume of day 3 picks we have.
Would love him and Drew with the 6ths or 7th
 
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Husko

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Greenwich, CT
As said - i agree with the majority of what you are saying. Giving up the farm for a top 3 pick is dumb. Trading for an Aiyuk or a Higgins is dumb. Using three high end picks in two years at the same position... is also dumb. Making ANY type of panic move is dumb.

I posted earlier (around the time of the Diggs trade) re Samuel - essentially that signing him made a lot more sense to me with the knowledge that they would later move Diggs. I'm not saying that they are the same player - but you saw the way that Brady started to use Diggs towards the end of the year... That type of usage is tailor made for a guy like Samuel. Bills fans need to get familiar with the fact that NOBODY in this offence will ever be used like Daboll/Dorsey era Diggs. So we just need to stop trying to replace him. They are moving on from that for the greater good. @Der Jaeger (among others but most notably) has made some great posts in recent weeks regarding this.


Right. Drafting a guy day 1 or early day 2 who they envisage as a starter, then coming back later during day 3 to get a developmental guy/STer makes total sense.

Using three top 60 picks in two years is not the same as that. You could even argue that it would be four top 60 picks in three years, since Kincaid is essentially a receiver...

The only time this regime ever did anything like it was Epenesa/Rousseau/Basham & i think we can all agree by now that it was a mistake.
I'm not advocating for it being good resource management, but that's exactly what they did at DE with AJ, Rousseau, and Boogie, but I see you got there in the last line :laugh:

I agree I don't want them using their first and second on WR unless that 2nd round pick is such a major BPA outlier that they can't pass him up.
 

Ace

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There's way too much information in the media about Beane trading up for a receiver. It doesn't make sense. Beane never leaks anything of substance.

It'll be interesting what he does.
It’s based on two simple things

1. Beane trades up in round 1 more often than not

2. no one who covers football can look at the receiver room in place for a 27 year old elite QB and imagine a front office not going all in to fix it.

I still expect a defensive lineman, a move up in round 2 after letting every team in the league have their choice of receivers and either trading for or signing a vet to add to the pile of #3 WRs

And I expect next year McDermott to be on the hot seat and Beane to go get real WRs

And…I am positive that if it was Ed Oliver he traded instead of Diggs and the draft had three huge ones in the top ten…Beane would move whatever it took to get one. and they still wouldn’t stop Mahomes. But they will get farther away from scoring with him.
 

Der Jaeger

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It’s based on two simple things

1. Beane trades up in round 1 more often than not

2. no one who covers football can look at the receiver room in place for a 27 year old elite QB and imagine a front office not going all in to fix it.

I still expect a defensive lineman, a move up in round 2 after letting every team in the league have their choice of receivers and either trading for or signing a vet to add to the pile of #3 WRs

And I expect next year McDermott to be on the hot seat and Beane to go get real WRs

And…I am positive that if it was Ed Oliver he traded instead of Diggs and the draft had three huge ones in the top ten…Beane would move whatever it took to get one. and they still wouldn’t stop Mahomes. But they will get farther away from scoring with him.
There's more to it than that.

Von Miller is an aspiring front office executive. He's been shadowing Beane. There's no way he gives out that information..... unless there's a reason. And the reason isn't to drum up trade partners.

All the "draft gurus" out there miss the point that they have one board. There are 32 boards. Who would've ever imagined Beane walks out of last year's draft with Dalton Kincaid? But we don't know Beane's board, or the board of the other 31 teams.

There's so much behind the scenes works that none of us will ever know. We see game play and combine numbers, and then watch the draft off the ESPN or NFL Network boards, and think we can properly analyze the picks.

We have no access to interviews, what coaches think, any of the team visits, etc.

Imagine Brian Thomas or Ladd McConkey come into visit and have a terrible interviews, seem unprepared, and say dumb things like "I don't want to play in the cold." We'll never know that. We'll just see Beane pass on those players and think he's a moron. But we are making judgments with maybe 50% of the available information a team has.

And then, even after that, there's no guarantee that teams will trade with Beane. He can call the Giants all he wants and try to get pick 6 to get a receiver. But if they are set and making their pick, that's not Beane's fault.

I got to see the inside of this process from a team perspective. What we talk about on this board is really talking about players with 50% of the information we need to make informed decisions. None of us have any clue what the available possibilities are and what teams are thinking.

Here's an example. What if Beane and the team are absolutely sold on Xavier Legette at receiver. They've done probably about 10K AI supported mock drafts at this point. They know what his range is pretty well. Beane has Legette ranked a lot higher than most teams based on the Bills board. So he passes on a trade up and makes a small trade down to get the 3rd round pick back he doesn't have. He then takes Legette.

Some people on this board are going to lose their minds. But what if Beane had him rated as a 1- but knew from AI mocks that he wasn't universally rated that way? So he trades down and still gets a 1- talent. And we'll never know that type of information.

Things that Beane has that no one here has:
- An entire scouting department who watches games and knows a lot more about football than we do
- A coaching staff who also review games
- Interviews with college coaches, college friends, family, etc. to gain an understanding of a player's character
- Interview results from the combine
- Results from 30 player visits
- Around 10K AI supported mock drafts

We should be patient and see what happens. Beane and McDermott took this team from a 17 year drought to perrenial contender. They didn't luck into that. They know what they are doing.
 

Husko

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If I had to put money on one thing happening at WR, it would be a mild tradeup for a WR. I'm thinking something like the Elam/Kincaid trades and for someone like McConkey or Mitchell, not high enough for the big 4. I think ultimately he just gets scared of someone jumping him like happened for McDuffie. I think he knows there's a whole there, and will prioritize getting someone he believes in to fill it.
 

truthbluth

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If I had to put money on one thing happening at WR, it would be a mild tradeup for a WR. I'm thinking something like the Elam/Kincaid trades and for someone like McConkey or Mitchell, not high enough for the big 4. I think ultimately he just gets scared of someone jumping him like happened for McDuffie. I think he knows there's a whole there, and will prioritize getting someone he believes in to fill it.
He should specifically be scared of KC jumping up for AD Mitchell.
 

ValJamesDuex

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Field Yates 2 Rnd Mock

Skurski has Bills Trading up to 9
 
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truthbluth

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I dunno. I could see KC falling in love with Worthy, seeing him as the "next Tyreek Hill".
I don't see it, but like, nobody really saw it with Tyreek or he wouldn't have been a day 3 pick. I see a good player in Worthy, but KC has slot recievers. They don't have anything like an X on the roster. I see KC having Legette above Worthy, based on their roster construction. Also, I'm guessing they need to replace Rice? You never know, because thr NFL has trumped the legal system a few times, but like, any Joe off the street would be going to jail.
 

Jim Bob

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I don't see it, but like, nobody really saw it with Tyreek or he wouldn't have been a day 3 pick. I see a good player in Worthy, but KC has slot recievers. They don't have anything like an X on the roster. I see KC having Legette above Worthy, based on their roster construction. Also, I'm guessing they need to replace Rice? You never know, because thr NFL has trumped the legal system a few times, but like, any Joe off the street would be going to jail.
Everyone saw Tyreek's talent.

He fell in the draft because he pled guilty to domestic violence and was dismissed from the team at Oklahoma State. A lot of people felt that he would go undrafted because of that.
 
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Digable5

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Feb 23, 2004
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There's more to it than that.

Von Miller is an aspiring front office executive. He's been shadowing Beane. There's no way he gives out that information..... unless there's a reason. And the reason isn't to drum up trade partners.

All the "draft gurus" out there miss the point that they have one board. There are 32 boards. Who would've ever imagined Beane walks out of last year's draft with Dalton Kincaid? But we don't know Beane's board, or the board of the other 31 teams.

There's so much behind the scenes works that none of us will ever know. We see game play and combine numbers, and then watch the draft off the ESPN or NFL Network boards, and think we can properly analyze the picks.

We have no access to interviews, what coaches think, any of the team visits, etc.

Imagine Brian Thomas or Ladd McConkey come into visit and have a terrible interviews, seem unprepared, and say dumb things like "I don't want to play in the cold." We'll never know that. We'll just see Beane pass on those players and think he's a moron. But we are making judgments with maybe 50% of the available information a team has.

And then, even after that, there's no guarantee that teams will trade with Beane. He can call the Giants all he wants and try to get pick 6 to get a receiver. But if they are set and making their pick, that's not Beane's fault.

I got to see the inside of this process from a team perspective. What we talk about on this board is really talking about players with 50% of the information we need to make informed decisions. None of us have any clue what the available possibilities are and what teams are thinking.

Here's an example. What if Beane and the team are absolutely sold on Xavier Legette at receiver. They've done probably about 10K AI supported mock drafts at this point. They know what his range is pretty well. Beane has Legette ranked a lot higher than most teams based on the Bills board. So he passes on a trade up and makes a small trade down to get the 3rd round pick back he doesn't have. He then takes Legette.

Some people on this board are going to lose their minds. But what if Beane had him rated as a 1- but knew from AI mocks that he wasn't universally rated that way? So he trades down and still gets a 1- talent. And we'll never know that type of information.

Things that Beane has that no one here has:
- An entire scouting department who watches games and knows a lot more about football than we do
- A coaching staff who also review games
- Interviews with college coaches, college friends, family, etc. to gain an understanding of a player's character
- Interview results from the combine
- Results from 30 player visits
- Around 10K AI supported mock drafts

We should be patient and see what happens. Beane and McDermott took this team from a 17 year drought to perrenial contender. They didn't luck into that. They know what they are doing.
Love it. Great write-up. We are very lucky to have you and your experience posting in this thread.

I would just add to the list of "Things that Beane has that no one here has":
- discussions with GMs
- discussions with agents

We don't know whether or not Beane has a handshake agreement with a GM, that if 'x' happens or doesn't happen in the draft that we will make a trade. Or, not a discussion with the GM, but an understanding of the team that if they can draft 'insert name here' then the team will cut a player from their roster the Bills want.

- For example, if Brian Thomas makes it to the Bengals they'll trade Higgins to the Bills for a 2025 2nd and this years 6th. Unlikely they trade him in Conference to a rival, but just making a point.

They could also have talked to agents of free agents that they will sign a certain player after the draft (likely after June 1) if they don't fill that position in the draft.
 

truthbluth

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Feb 2, 2011
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Everyone saw Tyreek's talent.

He fell in the draft because he pled guilty to domestic violence and was dismissed from the team at Oklahoma State. A lot of people felt that he would go undrafted because of that.
Seeing Tyreek had talent and predicting he'd be a top 5 wr in the NFL are different things. Worthy "has talent", but I don't see a #1 WR there. I've watched Tyreek Hill college highlights. He doesn't look like a top 5 pick to me. 1st round talent for sure, but in a redraft, Hill goes what, 5th?
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
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Seeing Tyreek had talent and predicting he'd be a top 5 wr in the NFL are different things. Worthy "has talent", but I don't see a #1 WR there. I've watched Tyreek Hill college highlights. He doesn't look like a top 5 pick to me. 1st round talent for sure, but in a redraft, Hill goes what, 5th?
I think the Worthy to KC because they had Hill is a bit lazy. But, if KC wants to add a burner at WR that they haven't really had since Hill, it does make sense.

And I don't think KC looks at it like Worthy would need to be a "WR1" as much as they would want him to add that game breaking speed element to their WR room.

When you are picking 32nd, I don't know that you are looking for a guy that is a lock to be WR1. And given his speed, I think Worthy is a guy that could be a WR1 with a QB like Mahomes.
 

truthbluth

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Feb 2, 2011
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I think the Worthy to KC because they had Hill is a bit lazy. But, if KC wants to add a burner at WR that they haven't really had since Hill, it does make sense.

And I don't think KC looks at it like Worthy would need to be a "WR1" as much as they would want him to add that game breaking speed element to their WR room.

When you are picking 32nd, I don't know that you are looking for a guy that is a lock to be WR1. And given his speed, I think Worthy is a guy that could be a WR1 with a QB like Mahomes.
It's not really about #1, #2, but I am not convinced Worthy can consistently win on the outside enough to be an every down X. Hill wins ever where on the field. He's so good on the line against press because the big corners just can't get their hand on him. Worthy is not like that at all. I just dislike any comp between these two. KC doesn't need a one, but they do need an X.

FWIW, lots of insider-type mock drafters have Worthy going very high. Would not be a surprise to see him as the 4th or 5th WR off the board and ahead of the Bills. We'll see.
 
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