It's Not Working

[rangerssharks414]

Unfortunately our same basic problem is health

Every team has injuries, though.

Entering the game last night, here is a list of who has missed games due to injuries...

Donskoi (5)
Martin (3)
Couture (23)
Braun (2)
Vlasic (1)
Smith (16)
Nieto (1)
Brown (1)

So, that's 23 games missed from the top six forward group (all Couture), and 6 games missed from the top four defensemen group. Granted, one of the injuries was a long term injury to one of the best players on the team, but 29 man games missed from the "top 10" isn't a lot at all at this point in the season.

http://www.mangameslost.com/nhl-man-games-lost-and-iit-metrics-december-8-2015/

 

[Used As A Shield]

That list is missing Melker I guess as his injury was prior to season, but that does really change anything.

 

[spintops]

Sharks were still towards the top in 5v5 scoring chances for/against a week or two ago. I'm still (foolishly) optimistic. Once MEV comes back we will go on a small winning streak, then lose, then win.. Pacific division is a joke, we don't have to be that good to make the playoffs and a 2 vs 3 matchup is probably better then playing the 4th best team from the central.

I don't see us sending everyone out at the deadline so I will keep hoping that we get hot at the right time. I mean we only have to get out of the weak pacific to make it to the WCF. Law of averages say those flukey bounces have to start going our way at some point right? Just waiting for them to payoff come playoff time.

 

[CanadienShark]

I was rolling my eyes at some of the naysayers before, but the Sharks are a loss away from being a .500 team, and just a few points out of last (with no first-rounder to boot).

Part of it is the parity in the league. There are a few teams that are dominantly on team, but just a handful of teams that are truly worse than the rest of the league. I tend to believe that the Sharks are underperforming relative to their capabilities, but that could be my teal-shaded glasses...

I'm seeing the same thing through these glasses.

 

[rangerssharks414]

Sharks were still towards the top in 5v5 scoring chances for/against a week or two ago. I'm still (foolishly) optimistic. Once MEV comes back we will go on a small winning streak, then lose, then win.. Pacific division is a joke, we don't have to be that good to make the playoffs and a 2 vs 3 matchup is probably better then playing the 4th best team from the central.

I don't see us sending everyone out at the deadline so I will keep hoping that we get hot at the right time. I mean we only have to get out of the weak pacific to make it to the WCF. Law of averages say those flukey bounces have to start going our way at some point right? Just waiting for them to payoff come playoff time.

I'm torn on what I want them to do. The Pacific division is very weak this year. Do I want them to go for it by giving away more futures and risk losing their UFAs for nothing, or do I want them to sell even though they don't have a first rounder? Ugh...

 

[Alwalys]

Every team has injuries, though.

Entering the game last night, here is a list of who has missed games due to injuries...

Donskoi (5)
Martin (3)
Couture (23)
Braun (2)
Vlasic (1)
Smith (16)
Nieto (1)
Brown (1)

So, that's 23 games missed from the top six forward group (all Couture), and 6 games missed from the top four defensemen group. Granted, one of the injuries was a long term injury to one of the best players on the team, but 29 man games missed from the "top 10" isn't a lot at all at this point in the season.

http://www.mangameslost.com/nhl-man-games-lost-and-iit-metrics-december-8-2015/

that doesn't really show that injuries are not our problem. i mean you have to define what the problem ultimately is. our problem is we are not playing consistently and are not building points in the standings, although we are in playoff position and at least holding.

it's not a devastating problem, thus having a major veteran player out for all but 3 games this season is in fact the biggest reason for it.

 

[Sysreq]

that doesn't really show that injuries are not our problem. i mean you have to define what the problem ultimately is. our problem is we are not playing consistently and are not building points in the standings, although we are in playoff position and at least holding.

it's not a devastating problem, thus having a major veteran player out for all but 3 games this season is in fact the biggest reason for it.

I don't think Couture is gonna be our savior here. He is good, but its not like we didn't have call-up. The third and first lines aren't gonna be impacted by his return. Donskoi didn't do poorly on the second either. The forth line is markedly better now that we have more depth, but that's kind of about it. I think the bigger issue is that PDB's system just doesn't work at the NHL level.

 

[Alwalys]

I don't think Couture is gonna be our savior here. He is good, but its not like we didn't have call-up.

Couture has a quite high wins-above-replacement and is one of our best producers, especially in difficult situations. He is also one of the few of our top players trending upward. He very well likely will be our savior.

At least, he is the most likely to be our savior other than martin jones.

 

[Led Zappa]

Melker, Couture and Torres have been out almost the entire season. Then we had other injuries that compounded their absence. We have a new young goalie, a large amount of new players and a new coach. Not sure what some of you were expecting.

 

[Coily]

Melker, Couture and Torres have been out almost the entire season. Then we had other injuries that compounded their absence. We have a new young goalie, a large amount of new players and a new coach. Not sure what some of you were expecting.

27-0-0 obviously.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Melker, Couture and Torres have been out almost the entire season. Then we had other injuries that compounded their absence. We have a new young goalie, a large amount of new players and a new coach. Not sure what some of you were expecting.

But that isn't something that other teams aren't and haven't been dealing with.

Injuries are a part of hockey. Teams need to have enough in their reserves that if a major injury happens, then can tread water for a time. Players like Braun and Dillon should be stepping up, not playing some of their worst hockey of the season.

Lastly, a new coach usually means a prolonged burst of improved play, as everyone is trying to get on the coach's good side.

PS Anything thinks the Sharks claim Fayne? Deboer connection is there...

 

[209]

Only 14 more games until Raffi returns!

 

[hohosaregood]

Melker, Couture and Torres have been out almost the entire season. Then we had other injuries that compounded their absence. We have a new young goalie, a large amount of new players and a new coach. Not sure what some of you were expecting.

Well I kinda expect an even strength goal in most games. I think that's a lowish bar.

 

[SJGoalie32]

Only 14 more games until Raffi returns!

So that means only 21 more games until Raffi gets himself suspended again!

 

[hohosaregood]

So that means only 21 more games until Raffi gets himself suspended again!

You're being extremely optimistic. League's watching Raffi like an over judgemental hawk. Raffi's got 5 games max.

 

[Barrie22]

Torres hasn't played 5 games inbetween injuries/suspensions in 3 years. I would even take the under for 5 games lol.

 

[stator]

Every team has injuries, though.

Entering the game last night, here is a list of who has missed games due to injuries...

Donskoi (5)
Martin (3)
Couture (23)
Braun (2)
Vlasic (1)
Smith (16)
Nieto (1)
Brown (1)

So, that's 23 games missed from the top six forward group (all Couture), and 6 games missed from the top four defensemen group. Granted, one of the injuries was a long term injury to one of the best players on the team, but 29 man games missed from the "top 10" isn't a lot at all at this point in the season.

http://www.mangameslost.com/nhl-man-games-lost-and-iit-metrics-december-8-2015/

My take on it is that injuries are one of two big tests of coaches. The other is losing slides. DeBoer seemingly fails both at the moment.

 

[hockeyball]

My take on it is that injuries are one of two big tests of coaches. The other is losing slides. DeBoer seemingly fails both at the moment.

It's fairly obvious to me that DoBoer is making things worse. This is a better team than last season, even with the injuries, and while they are higher in the standings they look like a worse team. They are only higher in the standings because of the pacific division craziness this season, and they look on the verge of dropping down the rankings quite a bit. The special teams have improved a bit, but are still far below expectations, and the team still looks unmotivated and unfocused. His line matching is embarrassingly bad, and the defense is a disaster.

This is the order of operations on how I would proceed at this point:

1) Force Marleau and Thornton out, if it has to be ugly, fine, but get it the hell over with. Focus on getting 1st round picks, anything else is gravy at this point. Unlikely, but if you can somehow get OUR first back from Boston do so.

2) Fire Wilson and DeBoer as soon as Thornton and Marleau are moved. DeBoer is simply not a very good coach and honestly should be Wilson's last straw.

3) Hire a new GM, do not promote Joe Will, in fact you likely need to fire him along with Wilson as he's too ingrained and likely part of the problems. We need a fresh take. Maybe Jason Botterill, Paul Fenton, etc.

4) Hire a new coach and staff. I'm not a huge fan of the veteran options available right now, of that group I'd at least take a look at Boucher and Bylsma, but none of the others. Mostly I'd look for another Todd McLellan type situation with an up and coming rookie coach with talent.

5) Fire Roy Sommer and replace him with a cardboard cut out of Bullwinkle.

6) At the deadline attempt to move the following for picks/prospects & young players.

Paul Martin
Brendon Dillon
Alex Stalock
Raffi Torres
Justin Braun
Brent Burns (if it looks like he won't re-sign, keep him if he will)
​

Essentially, clean house, entirely. Yes, we don't have our first and that is going to really suck when we do not make the playoffs once all of this is done, but it's not like this team has ANY hope of going anywhere in the playoffs anyway, so the ONLY reason to make the playoffs is for team profitability, and I couldn't give less of a **** about that obviously. This needs to be done, the sooner the better. Wilson needs to be taken away from this team as quickly as possible.

Next season we hope Meier, Roy and Goldobin are ready for the NHL. Hopefully we are able to pick up some NHL ready prospects and young players in some of the deals. Sign an NHL backup or let Grosenick have a shot. Can still ice something like:

? - Hertl - Pavelski
Goldobin - Couture - Meier
Karlsson - Tierney - Ward
Donskoi - Wingels - Nieto
Smith

Vlasic - Burns
? - Roy
Mueller - ?

Jones
?

Off-season priorities are:

- a top-6 LW (has to be fast, Hertl, Pavelski, and Couture are all fairly poor skaters). Likely need to be part of one of the above trades.
- 2 top-4 defensemen, hopefully a top-2 in there. I would go hard at Yandle in the off-season, and also attempt to acquire a young up and comer as part of one of the trades like Barrie, Jones, etc.
- At least 2 high-end AHL forwards for the Barracuda. At least 1 high-end AHL defensemen for the Barracuda. Make the Barracuda competitive.

Hopefully we can salvage some of this mess Wilson created and not waste a 3rd season. We won't win a cup next season, but at least we should have a pretty solid young team built to last awhile and with a decent coach should be fun to watch.

Basically, I'm done with this team as it stands. I want everyone who played a part in this lackadaisical, unmotivated, unfocused, weak willed mess of a team gone.

 

[Used As A Shield]

It's fairly obvious to me that DoBoer is making things worse. This is a better team than last season, even with the injuries, and while they are higher in the standings they look like a worse team. They are only higher in the standings because of the pacific division craziness this season, and they look on the verge of dropping down the rankings quite a bit. The special teams have improved a bit, but are still far below expectations, and the team still looks unmotivated and unfocused. His line matching is embarrassingly bad, and the defense is a disaster.

This is the order of operations on how I would proceed at this point:

1) Force Marleau and Thornton out, if it has to be ugly, fine, but get it the hell over with. Focus on getting 1st round picks, anything else is gravy at this point. Unlikely, but if you can somehow get OUR first back from Boston do so.

2) Fire Wilson and DeBoer as soon as Thornton and Marleau are moved. DeBoer is simply not a very good coach and honestly should be Wilson's last straw.

3) Hire a new GM, do not promote Joe Will, in fact you likely need to fire him along with Wilson as he's too ingrained and likely part of the problems. We need a fresh take. Maybe Jason Botterill, Paul Fenton, etc.

4) Hire a new coach and staff. I'm not a huge fan of the veteran options available right now, of that group I'd at least take a look at Boucher and Bylsma, but none of the others. Mostly I'd look for another Todd McLellan type situation with an up and coming rookie coach with talent.

5) Fire Roy Sommer and replace him with a cardboard cut out of Bullwinkle.

6) At the deadline attempt to move the following for picks/prospects & young players.

Paul Martin
Brendon Dillon
Alex Stalock
Raffi Torres
Justin Braun
Brent Burns (if it looks like he won't re-sign, keep him if he will)
​

Essentially, clean house, entirely. Yes, we don't have our first and that is going to really suck when we do not make the playoffs once all of this is done, but it's not like this team has ANY hope of going anywhere in the playoffs anyway, so the ONLY reason to make the playoffs is for team profitability, and I couldn't give less of a **** about that obviously. This needs to be done, the sooner the better. Wilson needs to be taken away from this team as quickly as possible.

Next season we hope Meier, Roy and Goldobin are ready for the NHL. Hopefully we are able to pick up some NHL ready prospects and young players in some of the deals. Sign an NHL backup or let Grosenick have a shot. Can still ice something like:

? - Hertl - Pavelski
Goldobin - Couture - Meier
Karlsson - Tierney - Ward
Donskoi - Wingels - Nieto
Smith

Vlasic - Burns
? - Roy
Mueller - ?

Jones
?

Off-season priorities are:

- a top-6 LW (has to be fast, Hertl, Pavelski, and Couture are all fairly poor skaters). Likely need to be part of one of the above trades.
- 2 top-4 defensemen, hopefully a top-2 in there. I would go hard at Yandle in the off-season, and also attempt to acquire a young up and comer as part of one of the trades like Barrie, Jones, etc.
- At least 2 high-end AHL forwards for the Barracuda. At least 1 high-end AHL defensemen for the Barracuda. Make the Barracuda competitive.

Hopefully we can salvage some of this mess Wilson created and not waste a 3rd season. We won't win a cup next season, but at least we should have a pretty solid young team built to last awhile and with a decent coach should be fun to watch.

Basically, I'm done with this team as it stands. I want everyone who played a part in this lackadaisical, unmotivated, unfocused, weak willed mess of a team gone.

At this point I pretty much agree whole heartedly. I would like to think any stipulations on attendance issues would be rectified when fans see they have a fresh exciting young team, one that will be on a clear upswing, even if the first year or two are painful. At least fans would be expecting growth as a team instead of your best players aging and becoming worse.

 

[Led Zappa]

Then, once all that is done we can move on to blaming the owner, since it won't work for years if it works at all.

 

[hockeyball]

Then, once all that is done we can move on to blaming the owner, since it won't work for years if it works at all.

And you think what we are doing is working? You think this is a cup caliber team, or even has the potential to be under the current management within the same time frame you propose?

I don't see it. I don't see that the team as currently constructed and managed has any hope at a cup in the next few seasons, and after that has extremely dismal future potential. I'll trade the very, very small chance of a miracle in the next few seasons for a chance at long term success, easily.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't agree with rebuilding at this point. I don't care if they look worse than last year. I don't care if people see injuries as an excuse. I don't care that I do want DW gone. You owe it to the fans to do everything within reason to make the playoffs and push as much as you can. After the season is over, fine. Rebuild. Clean house. Do whatever but not until you've pushed this season as far as it can go.

There's no sense in making those kinds of changes at this point when a new coach plus critical injuries are at play here and it's a long season. They don't need to be clicking at this point. It would be nice but as long as they're in a playoff position or striking distance of one, they can be patient while they get things together. Not having Couture and now not having Vlasic are big pieces to be missing and this isn't a system where you can just continue on at the same level without them. The team certainly needs that mentality just to go through and not use any excuses but it is the reality of it.

 

[spintops]

I think rebuilding midseason is foolish and unrealistic. We don't have a first so we are purposely tanking for no reason? Play the year out and make all those moves in the off-season, there is no benefit to making the move this year besides ruining the team financially. You guys saying you don't care if people stop going to the game don't realize that if the Sharks stop making money, we stop being a cap team. Imagine this already mediocre roster if it's CAP number was 10M lower..

-We are just going to trade all these players that make 4M-6m+ at the deadline when most contending teams are already up against the cap. Ok.
-Trade young defenders like Braun/Dillion when we already have no depth back there just because. Sure lets start a 7 year rebuild..
-Just throw Meier, Roy and Goldobin into the NHL when they don't look // probably won't be ready yet. Sure lets rush our kids when we already are weak on top prospects, gotcha.
-Pair Vlasic - Burns together when that experiment has already failed as our top pairing. Guess we are tanking next year as well.

 

[Eid Ma Clack Shaw]

The issue with the Sharks is that they are too good to tank, but also not good enough to be a real contender. It kind of reminds me of the Flames or Leafs of a few years ago. It took years of losing and missing the playoffs for those teams to begin an actual smart rebuild. If the Sharks follow that pattern, we are in for a lousy few seasons. That laundry list of stuff won't happen and definitely won't happen all at once.

I think it's funny that the Pacific division has basically turned into the Atlantic. The Sharks are 3rd in the division, but only 5 points out from being in last place. And the way playoff teams are seeded, they are still in a playoff spot.

The season is long. I'm more interested in seeing how this team is doing at the halfway point before declaring DeBoer a bust.

 

[Alwalys]

It's fairly obvious to me that DoBoer is making things worse. This is a better team than last season, even with the injuries, and while they are higher in the standings they look like a worse team. They are only higher in the standings because of the pacific division craziness this season, and they look on the verge of dropping down the rankings quite a bit. The special teams have improved a bit, but are still far below expectations, and the team still looks unmotivated and unfocused. His line matching is embarrassingly bad, and the defense is a disaster.

This is the order of operations on how I would proceed at this point:

1) Force Marleau and Thornton out, if it has to be ugly, fine, but get it the hell over with. Focus on getting 1st round picks, anything else is gravy at this point. Unlikely, but if you can somehow get OUR first back from Boston do so.

2) Fire Wilson and DeBoer as soon as Thornton and Marleau are moved. DeBoer is simply not a very good coach and honestly should be Wilson's last straw.

3) Hire a new GM, do not promote Joe Will, in fact you likely need to fire him along with Wilson as he's too ingrained and likely part of the problems. We need a fresh take. Maybe Jason Botterill, Paul Fenton, etc.

4) Hire a new coach and staff. I'm not a huge fan of the veteran options available right now, of that group I'd at least take a look at Boucher and Bylsma, but none of the others. Mostly I'd look for another Todd McLellan type situation with an up and coming rookie coach with talent.

5) Fire Roy Sommer and replace him with a cardboard cut out of Bullwinkle.

6) At the deadline attempt to move the following for picks/prospects & young players.

Paul Martin
Brendon Dillon
Alex Stalock
Raffi Torres
Justin Braun
Brent Burns (if it looks like he won't re-sign, keep him if he will)
​

Essentially, clean house, entirely. Yes, we don't have our first and that is going to really suck when we do not make the playoffs once all of this is done, but it's not like this team has ANY hope of going anywhere in the playoffs anyway, so the ONLY reason to make the playoffs is for team profitability, and I couldn't give less of a **** about that obviously. This needs to be done, the sooner the better. Wilson needs to be taken away from this team as quickly as possible.

Next season we hope Meier, Roy and Goldobin are ready for the NHL. Hopefully we are able to pick up some NHL ready prospects and young players in some of the deals. Sign an NHL backup or let Grosenick have a shot. Can still ice something like:

? - Hertl - Pavelski
Goldobin - Couture - Meier
Karlsson - Tierney - Ward
Donskoi - Wingels - Nieto
Smith

Vlasic - Burns
? - Roy
Mueller - ?

Jones
?

Off-season priorities are:

- a top-6 LW (has to be fast, Hertl, Pavelski, and Couture are all fairly poor skaters). Likely need to be part of one of the above trades.
- 2 top-4 defensemen, hopefully a top-2 in there. I would go hard at Yandle in the off-season, and also attempt to acquire a young up and comer as part of one of the trades like Barrie, Jones, etc.
- At least 2 high-end AHL forwards for the Barracuda. At least 1 high-end AHL defensemen for the Barracuda. Make the Barracuda competitive.

Hopefully we can salvage some of this mess Wilson created and not waste a 3rd season. We won't win a cup next season, but at least we should have a pretty solid young team built to last awhile and with a decent coach should be fun to watch.

Basically, I'm done with this team as it stands. I want everyone who played a part in this lackadaisical, unmotivated, unfocused, weak willed mess of a team gone.

wow, that's a lot of time wasted writing something unrealistic and irrelevant. you'll never get that time back ...