It's Not About Winning Or Losing. It's About Who Gets The Blame (CBA/Lockout) XVI

[IBleedNYRBlue]

So are they just going to cut off contact with each other for months like they did in 04?

You would think these idiots would have learned from last time.

 

[JAX]

I think the PA's stategy going forward is to cut their nose off to spite the league.

View attachment 59337

 

[CBJWerenski8]

So are they just going to cut off contact with each other for months like they did in 04?

You would think these idiots would have learned from last time.

No, according to Fehr they talk every day.

 

[thom]

Can someone tell me how nhl salaries are more than nfl players get on average?

 

[ti-vite]

So are they just going to cut off contact with each other for months like they did in 04?

You would think these idiots would have learned from last time.

In terms of revenu, Daly mentioned a few weeks ago that the WC generated no more than a normal saturday in terms of revenu. Visibility however, is important.

I don't think the WC is a trigger/pressure point, so the only one left is ultimate cancellation date of the season, so yes deep freeze time till after x-mas.

Since the beginning I have been thinking this wont get serious till Oct-Nov...2013. Deep freeze time.

On another note, going to my third Q game (go Huskies!) this season with my kids.

 

[7toZulu]

Can someone tell me how nhl salaries are more than nfl players get on average?

NHL players get a larger percentage of revenues during last CBA, plus there are fewer players per team in the NHL vs the NFL.

 

[Krishna]

Can someone tell me how nhl salaries are more than nfl players get on average?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ycn-10423863

Average Salaries in the NBA, NFL, MLB and NHL

1. NBA - $5.15 million

The average NBA player made $5.15 million in salary in 2010-11. That was easily the highest average salary of the four major sports leagues in the United States. NBA players make the most money, on average, because there are fewer NBA players than NFL players, or NHL players or major league baseball players.

NBA teams can have a maximum of 15 players per team. There are 30 NBA teams. So there only a total of 450 NBA players. NBA teams play 82 regular season games, and the league has a long playoff season too, which generated enough income to pay the players an average of $5.15 million.

The NBA is currently locking out its players, as the league is trying cut salaries in the league. So if the NBA plays in 2011-12, the players will earn a lower average salary, but no matter what the concessions the owners get from the players, NBA players will still be the highest paid in pro sports.

2. MLB - $3.31 million

With an average salary of $3.31 million, major league baseball players are the second highest paid players of the four major sports leagues. There are 25 players on each of the 30 teams in MLB, or a total of 750 players.

MLB teams play 162 games per season, which provides a ton of games for the league to generate income from. In order to generate even more income, MLB is contemplating adding more wild card teams for the playoffs. What hurts baseball is that it is the most regional of all the major sports.

3. NHL - $2.4 million

NHL players make the third most money of the major sports leagues, with an average salary of $2.4 million. There are 23 players on each of the 30 NHL teams, for a total of 690 players.

I'm surprised that NHL players make as much as they do. One of the major papers in New York City used to show the weekly ratings of sports games on TV in the New York market. NHL games were always the lowest rated of any sport, and some of the ratings were incredibly low. A Stanley Cup Finals game on NBC in 2007 was the lowest rated prime time program in NBC history.

4. NFL - $1.9 million

The irony of life. The NFL is easily the most popular of all the sports leagues in the United States, but NFL players make, on average, the least amount of money at $1.9 million a year. That's because of two reasons.

Each NFL team has 53 total players. There are 32 NFL teams, for a total of 1,696 players. That's almost four times the number of players in pro football than in the NBA, over 1,000 more players than the NHL has, and well over twice as many players as MLB has.

NFL teams only play 16 games in the regular season. That's a just a fraction of the number of games each if the other sports leagues play per year. Less games means less opportunity to generate income.

So there are a lot more NFL players than there are NBA, NHL or MLB players, and the teams play far fewer games. The NFL still generates a ton more income than the other leagues do because NFL football is so much more popular. Plus the Super Bowl alone generates incredible income for the NFL

 

[Jonas1235]

From what I've read, players seem to think that these canceled games will magically be returning at some point. And I laugh out loud every time. Why would Gary cancel a months worth of games to give those dates to the owners for their buildings only to go against it later? 95% of these games are lost. If a season started December 1st, I bet they'd play 60 games. That's 22 games gone which is like 30% of their salary. So the players would lose like 500 million in salary. And that's based off of 1.8 billion. If they end up with 50% of revenue, they could lose 800 million this season alone, and that's being generous.

Bottom line is these players are Pejorative Slured.

 

[Gustave]

From what I've read, players seem to think that these canceled games will magically be returning at some point. And I laugh out loud every time. Why would Gary cancel a months worth of games to give those dates to the owners for their buildings only to go against it later? 95% of these games are lost. If a season started December 1st, I bet they'd play 60 games. That's 22 games gone which is like 30% of their salary. So the players would lose like 500 million in salary. And that's based off of 1.8 billion. If they end up with 50% of revenue, they could lose 800 million this season alone, and that's being generous.

Bottom line is these players are Pejorative Slured.

I agree. Fehr's mandate should've been to get the best possible deal before any cancelation of games. 82 games guarentees a maximum of money for the PA.

But for that to happen, the players needed to get a grasp on the financial aspect of their careers and a willingness to put their money above their feelings towards the league.

Mission failed IMO.

 

[W75]

I'm getting paranoid. This whole mess is so absurd.. especially their arguments. I'm starting to think this whole show is scripted but poorly played farce.

If Betts and Fehr actually are really good buddies, and they're only trolling us big time. If they're just bitter to the fans, 'cause fans have isnulted them so much during the recent years?

 

[JAX]

I agree. Fehr's mandate should've been to get the best possible deal before any cancelation of games. 82 games guarentees a maximum of money for the PA.

But for that to happen, the players needed to get a grasp on the financial aspect of their careers and a willingness to put their money above their feelings towards the league.

Mission failed IMO.

If they wanted the best deal they would have not fired Paul Kelly and brought in Fehr. Fehr isn't here to make a deal....he is here for the PA's schorched earth policy.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

If they wanted the best deal they would have not fired Paul Kelly and brought in Fehr. Fehr isn't here to make a deal....he is here for the PA's schorched earth policy.

That was pretty clear when, after hiring Fehr, the NHLPA was trying to keep the escrow payments artificially high...

 

[McJeety McJeet]

I agree. Fehr's mandate should've been to get the best possible deal before any cancelation of games. 82 games guarentees a maximum of money for the PA.

But for that to happen, the players needed to get a grasp on the financial aspect of their careers and a willingness to put their money above their feelings towards the league.

Mission failed IMO.

It appears Fehr's mandate is to de-link player salaries from NHL revenue. I believe that if the PA offered something like 54/52/50/50/50... we'd be watching hockey. The NHL can't make the offer, if they did Fehr would tuck it in his pocket (much like Bettman did last time) and tell the players their plan is working.

 

[mossey3535]

That was pretty clear when, after hiring Fehr, the NHLPA was trying to keep the escrow payments artificially high...

Yeah, but I guess most people have forgotten. Using the escalator every year for them has been a double-edged sword - give more money to UFA's with a cap, but also piss off the guys on long-term deals with the larger escrow that comes with it.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

lol Parise:

"You have all these owners signing big deals minutes before the CBA expires and then going the next day, 'We don't want to pay these contracts," Parise said. "Maybe that's how they conduct business. That just doesn't seem right. What if us players signed a deal and said, 'You know what, I actually want 15 percent more?'"

I wonder if he realizes that is what the NHLPA is trying to do...

 

[Gustave]

It appears Fehr's mandate is to de-link player salaries from NHL revenue. I believe that if the PA offered something like 54/52/50/50/50... we'd be watching hockey. The NHL can't make the offer, if they did Fehr would tuck it in his pocket (much like Bettman did last time) and tell the players their plan is working.

It would appear so. However, the way I look at it, this CBA negotiation isn't the right time for the PA to go for that because of the fragile state of the NHL revenues. If the product is hurt, revenues will come down. Asking for a minimum in dollar figures at this point in time doesn't work and won't work because games are being cancelled and fans are sorta fed up with both sides. Revenue will go down for the owners so asking them for a dollar figure is and will be a non starter. It will spiral down.

If I were the PA, i'd ask for 1,87 bil for 12-13, 1,91 bil for 13-14, a PA option of 1,96 bill or 50-50(depending on which one has more dollar value) for 14-15 and 50-50 from here on end. This way, Fehr can at least say he delinked for a purpose: keeping the so called existing contracts intact. I'd trade this for what the owner's want with free agency provisions(with tweaks as Daly alluded too), one amnesty buyout per team for teams to squeeze in under the cap for year one of the deal and 82 games. Instead of being creative, he's just throwing out delinked proposals and one fake 50-50 proposition, without addressing the free agency provisions, on a single sheet of paper...

Or just bargain with what the league offered and try to get 82 games in. However, that ship as sailed and the PA is racking up money losses as we speak.

 

[Spongolium*]

Did their agents not inform these meat-heads that all deals are under the terms of escrow, and that they were not being payed 100% of the deals anyhow.

Seriously, who is feeding these players this nonsense.

 

[Nanuk23]

Came across this article that was written in April of this year. Is Don Fehr's non cap world as good as he claims ?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...seball-players-are-actually-underpaid/255512/

 

[chicagoskycam]

Did their agents not inform these meat-heads that all deals are under the terms of escrow, and that they were not being payed 100% of the deals anyhow.

Seriously, who is feeding these players this nonsense.

I'm pretty sure they already know that.

 

[AHockeyGameBrokeOut*]

The current PR/Party Line spin from the NHLPA is the idea that the Players won't be getting paid the full amount (which is an outright lie), that the fans are too stupid to figure it out (another lie), and they're also concealing the dollar amounts.

The NHLPA, by spreading the lie and the line that Players won't receive every dollar they signed for, has insulted every fan of the game, to compensate for their unwillingness to get in that negotiating room to try and make something happen.

FIRE DON FEHR.

 

[nickyb]

lol Parise:



I wonder if he realizes that is what the NHLPA is trying to do...

Oh Zach......you so intelligent.....

Just like most of your buddies.....

 

[AHockeyGameBrokeOut*]

Did their agents not inform these meat-heads that all deals are under the terms of escrow, and that they were not being payed 100% of the deals anyhow.

Seriously, who is feeding these players this nonsense.

The NHLPA is doing it. It's a collective message and a party line spin. The agents of the Players tell them what the message of the day is.

Expect to hear this same thing from all of your favorite NHL superstars... because the NHLPA is telling them to say it.

 

[Spongolium*]

The current PR/Party Line spin from the NHLPA is the idea that the Players won't be getting paid the full amount (which is an outright lie), that the fans are too stupid to figure it out (another lie), and they're also concealing the dollar amounts.

The NHLPA, by spreading the lie and the line that Players won't receive every dollar they signed for, has insulted every fan of the game, to compensate for their unwillingness to get in that negotiating room to try and make something happen.

FIRE DON FEHR.

Fehr was brought in to do one thing, and that was to attack the cap.

The NHLPA really has no idea what they are letting themselves in for. I guess this is what happens when you let the rich players "negotiate" instead of the guys earning 500K a year

 

[AHockeyGameBrokeOut*]

Fehr was brought in to do one thing, and that was to attack the cap.

The NHLPA really has no idea what they are letting themselves in for. I guess this is what happens when you let the rich players "negotiate" instead of the guys earning 500K a year

You know, the more I look at it, I don't think Fehr was brought in to do anything. I think they just put a bunch of names in a hat and his was pulled.

 

[McJeety McJeet]

It would appear so. However, the way I look at it, this CBA negotiation isn't the right time for the PA to go for that because of the fragile state of the NHL revenues. If the product is hurt, revenues will come down. Asking for a minimum in dollar figures at this point in time doesn't work and won't work because games are being cancelled and fans are sorta fed up with both sides. Revenue will go down for the owners so asking them for a dollar figure is and will be a non starter. It will spiral down.

If I were the PA, i'd ask for 1,87 bil for 12-13, 1,91 bil for 13-14, a PA option of 1,96 bill or 50-50(depending on which one has more dollar value) for 14-15 and 50-50 from here on end. This way, Fehr can at least say he delinked for a purpose: keeping the so called existing contracts intact. I'd trade this for what the owner's want with free agency provisions(with tweaks as Daly alluded too), one amnesty buyout per team for teams to squeeze in under the cap for year one of the deal and 82 games. Instead of being creative, he's just throwing out delinked proposals and one fake 50-50 proposition, without addressing the free agency provisions, on a single sheet of paper...

Or just bargain with what the league offered and try to get 82 games in. However, that ship as sailed and the PA is racking up money losses as we speak.

De-linkage and player raises (albeit small ones designed to reduce their overall share) is a massive PA win. That would be the NHL waiving the white flag. Nothing the owners have proposed up to this point suggests that they would consider that.

I believe the PA will "win" this CBA AND receive less money than they would under the last NHL proposal.