Its a Good Time to Be a Coyotes Fan

[kihekah19*]

Jakey...

The figures don't lie.....

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=7450

The attendance in Glendale the first two years exceeded that of downtown. But the lockout and economic crash took the momentum out of it, along with the crap product on the ice that caught up with the waning years at AWA.

Then look at the BK year when the bottom fell out of it. People didn't know if there would be a team here from one year to the next. If you were to go out now and ask people on the street the majority of them would still feel that way.

Stability is the only way this team will ever have any chance now of turning it around. IA had that when they signed the leased in 2013. Only to screw their own pooch two years later hiring Craig Tindall. A hire they really didn't need to make.

If you ak the majority on the street, the response would be that tix are so plentiful, that they can always get them IF they want.

 

[kihekah19*]

The posters on F40 should not be the ones receiving the criticism.

Just think that should be made crystal clear.

No one is criticizing them. If they look in the mirror and feel,criticized.... That's on them.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Well, they aren't complete idiots. They bought an undervalued franchise and have converted that into free ownership of half a franchise. That's pretty good return. Regardless they still aren't capable of breaking even without massive subsidies. They actually managed to get that subsidy and then frittered it away in a complete lapse of judgement. When you lie so often and so easily, it makes it difficult for me to believe any good news they hint at. Just show me.

Only loosing 4.5m for 2014 and 2015 (Forbes) is pretty good for a team that sucks. And other teams, such as Winnipeg receive a subsidy too. They get about 12.5m I believe.

The big reason they got kicked out was because Glendale was desperate to get rid of the team. While the lawyer thing was a lapse of judgment I think Glendale would've found a way to get rid of them regardless. A lot of the councilors didn't like the original deal and for some reason they think they'd be better off with no team/thought the team would like to renegotiate after being tossed out. They handled the situation very poorly, I'm still amazed that a city of 200k+ can have such stupid politicians. They remind me of councilors from towns of a couple thousand.

While the two weeks thing has been ridiculous, and I had my doubts if anything would actually happen I really do think they will have a new arena sorted out after signing Goligoski. They showed him enough to sign a long term deal here.

I see you carefully avoided addressing the impact the bankruptcy and potential relocation had on attendance. Even making the Western Conference Finals three years later didn't bring the numbers back to the first two they spent in Glendale. So what will you lay that off on?

It doesn't matter how stable you think the ownership is. The facts say otherwise. IA needed Glendale's help to even get in the door to begin with. Then commit a huge blunder that cost them their annual allowance. A truly stable ownership would not need to be searching for exotic ways to pry money from the taxpaying public to help cover their operating bills.

I got Sniper''s original point. It had nothing to do with "support" of this team. He and I are just as excited about the potential for this team as the next guy. But at the same time we aren't going to delude ourselves into believing it's going to all roses and candy canes until IA can actually show that they have a permanent home for this franchise to play in.

A key to attendance is going to be securing a new building, showing off the architectural drawings of it, and proving that the team truly is here to stay. I do think just having owners has been enough stability for some people, attendance didn't change much from the 2012 year to last two even though the on ice product was completely different.

I think with a new arena in the east attendance will bottom out at an avg of 14.5k, and with, fingers crossed, a contending team it will be just under the total of having sellouts. Even with the current situation here I think the Coyotes could mirror what the Panthers did this season if they play like they did, which is unlikely. Finish with an avg of 15k as people realize the team is good.

 

[kihekah19*]

If you open a beautiful restaurant, in an awful location, and sell disgusting food that gets terrible reviews, it isn't the fault of the customers that they aren't showing up to give you their money.

Perhaps, but if it's the only place to eat those same customers would be fools to let themselves starve.

 

[Jakey53]

Only loosing 4.5m for 2014 and 2015 (Forbes) is pretty good for a team that sucks. And other teams, such as Winnipeg receive a subsidy too. They get about 12.5m I believe.

The big reason they got kicked out was because Glendale was desperate to get rid of the team. While the lawyer thing was a lapse of judgment I think Glendale would've found a way to get rid of them regardless. A lot of the councilors didn't like the original deal and for some reason they think they'd be better off with no team/thought the team would like to renegotiate after being tossed out. They handled the situation very poorly, I'm still amazed that a city of 200k+ can have such stupid politicians. They remind me of councilors from towns of a couple thousand.

While the two weeks thing has been ridiculous, and I had my doubts if anything would actually happen I really do think they will have a new arena sorted out after signing Goligoski. They showed him enough to sign a long term deal here.



A key to attendance is going to be securing a new building, showing off the architectural drawings of it, and proving that the team truly is here to stay. I do think just having owners has been enough stability for some people, attendance didn't change much from the 2012 year to last two even though the on ice product was completely different.

I think with a new arena in the east attendance will bottom out at an avg of 14.5k, and with, fingers crossed, a contending team it will be just under the total of having sellouts. Even with the current situation here I think the Coyotes could mirror what the Panthers did this season if they play like they did, which is unlikely. Finish with an avg of 15k as people realize the team is good.

I don't think a new building means squat. Sure a new building might help a little for the first one or two years it's the product on the ice. IF this year this team pulls off a repeat of 2012, all the posters here that say they want a new building before they buy tickets will probably be the first in line to buy tickets. They are just using the building as another excuse. They will come here and post how much fun the team is to watch etc. etc. and then the next year say they are waiting for a new building before they buy tickets. Why worry about something that is out of our control, and just enjoy it.

 

[Jakey53]

I see you carefully avoided addressing the impact the bankruptcy and potential relocation had on attendance. Even making the Western Conference Finals three years later didn't bring the numbers back to the first two they spent in Glendale. So what will you lay that off on?

It doesn't matter how stable you think the ownership is. The facts say otherwise. IA needed Glendale's help to even get in the door to begin with. Then commit a huge blunder that cost them their annual allowance. A truly stable ownership would not need to be searching for exotic ways to pry money from the taxpaying public to help cover their operating bills.

I got Sniper''s original point. It had nothing to do with "support" of this team. He and I are just as excited about the potential for this team as the next guy. But at the same time we aren't going to delude ourselves into believing it's going to all roses and candy canes until IA can actually show that they have a permanent home for this franchise to play in.

You guys keep on going back pre IA ownership. What they have done since buying this shows me they are stable and committed. If you or anyone else thinks different, that's your prerogative, and if you don't buy tickets to see this team it is your loss. I know I will enjoy the team this year and many year after.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I don't think a new building means squat. Sure a new building might help a little for the first one or two years it's the product on the ice. IF this year this team pulls off a repeat of 2012, all the posters here that say they want a new building before they buy tickets will probably be the first in line to buy tickets. They are just using the building as another excuse. They will come here and post how much fun the team is to watch etc. etc. and then the next year say they are waiting for a new building before they buy tickets. Why worry about something that is out of our control, and just enjoy it.

A new building means stability. It isn't just the attraction of a fancy new building that would improve attendance. They could move downtown, partner with the Suns to have a new arena built in 7 years and do better than they are now.

The posters on here aren't indicative of 98% of the fan base. A lot of people don't want to dedicate themselves to a team that may or may not be here next season. Most don't follow the team as closely as we do. To the average Phoenician all they know is the Coyotes got kicked out of their arena and they might be getting a new one somewhere. Which to the average person just sounds like another chapter in this never ending story. And some might not even know about the plans for a new arena.

And just looking at the last 5 years stability has shown to help attendance. The last couple years are very similar to 2012 even though the team is a lot worse. Season ticket sales are a lot stronger. Just having owners is enough for some people, for others they're going to want more before investing their money and time into the team.

Now yes if the team does go and win the division this year attendance will still jump up, but having stable base to start from would help. And I do believe we will be getting a new arena soon.

 

[Jakey53]

A new building means stability. It isn't just the attraction of a fancy new building that would improve attendance. They could move downtown, partner with the Suns to have a new arena built in 7 years and do better than they are now.

The posters on here aren't indicative of 98% of the fan base. A lot of people don't want to dedicate themselves to a team that may or may not be here next season. Most don't follow the team as closely as we do. To the average Phoenician all they know is the Coyotes got kicked out of their arena and they might be getting a new one somewhere. Which to the average person just sounds like another chapter in this never ending story. And some might not even know about the plans for a new arena.

And just looking at the last 5 years stability has shown to help attendance. The last couple years are very similar to 2012 even though the team is a lot worse. Season ticket sales are a lot stronger. Just having owners is enough for some people, for others they're going to want more before investing their money and time into the team.

Now yes if the team does go and win the division this year attendance will still jump up, but having stable base to start from would help. And I do believe we will be getting a new arena soon.

In my opinion we have a stable base, and we will get a new arena or maybe even staying in Glendale, but whatever the case it is only an excuse. The DBacks are stable, as the Suns, but where are the fans? They can't use a building as an excuse, so they talk about how bad the team is doing, but they would buy tickets if the team is good. Always excuses. If posters came here and said I want to wait until the Coyotes start winning I could see their point, I wouldn't understand it because of what we have building here, but don't say they are waiting for a new building.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

In my opinion we have a stable base, and we will get a new arena or maybe even staying in Glendale, but whatever the case it is only an excuse. The DBacks are stable, as the Suns, but where are the fans? They can't use a building as an excuse, so they talk about how bad the team is doing, but they would buy tickets if the team is good. Always excuses. If posters came here and said I want to wait until the Coyotes start winning I could see their point, I wouldn't understand it because of what we have building here, but don't say they are waiting for a new building.

The Dbacks are awful and their attendance isn't that bad. The 25k range is pretty normal for a lot of markets. The Suns get 17k, so their fans are there.

For the average person in the Valley the team doesn't look stable. To you and I they do. But we're hardcore fans. We spend our time on a forum talking about the team. 98% of fans don't do that.

If the team had more stability more people would make the plunge with season tickets. I've heard many people say that, and have also seen a bunch take the plunge after the team got owners. Stabilty has a big effect. And season tickets are very important to sell. If people don't have them they're going to be reluncanct to buy tickets. They're schedule is more open for other events. But if they have already put their money into it the teams already got their money and they're more likely to attend and pay for parking, buy food, buy booze etc. I'm sure more would buy right now if the team was stable. The team itself is promising, but to a lot of people they're unsure if the team will be here long term so they don't want to make the investment.

I bet if the Glendale mess didn't happen last season attendance would've been 14k+. If the team was also winning I bet they'd be at 16.5k.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

The new building represents permanence of a relationship. I liken it to the girl you meet who says that her father may be relocating the family if a little bit. It's hard to allow yourself to become really attached because you don't want the misery of her being torn away from you.

For the Coyotes to flourish, they must have an arena either downtown or on my side of Phoenix. The drive for the majority of fans must be less than the 90 minute drive it takes during week days, and the drive can't be mostly bumper to bumper, as it is now to get to Glendale.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

The new building represents permanence of a relationship. I liken it to the girl you meet who says that her father may be relocating the family if a little bit. It's hard to allow yourself to become really attached because you don't want the misery of her being torn away from you.

For the Coyotes to flourish, they must have an arena either downtown or on my side of Phoenix. The drive for the majority of fans must be less than the 90 minute drive it takes during week days, and the drive can't be mostly bumper to bumper, as it is now to get to Glendale.

Exactly. Once the casual fan knows for sure they're staying they're going to be a lot more likely to really buy into the team. Once the building announcement comes it'll get more people committed to the team, we could have an increase in people on this Coyotes forum.

And to add to the downtown/east side location, they also need to get away from Glendale. That relationship has been cancerous. They need to rid themselves of it and start fresh.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I still doubt that everybody would be happy. There will still be some people who will claim IA are scam artists, don't have money, the deal will fall through, they'll be kicked out again, they're just waiting for Seattle to get an arena to move there.......

I don't trust IA because of the Glendale audit. But if they manage to actually follow through and get a new barn built in the East Valley, it'll be a huge boost to their credibility.

And in the meantime you will set on your duff and b---- and moan and point fingers. That sure in hell won't help things. Go to a game with family and friends and enjoy yourself. Good times a coming.

Jakey, I'm often amused by your dogged insistence on being contrarian and in hockey matters I think you sometimes make some good points. But don't make the mistake of telling me what I will or won't do again.

I bet if the Glendale mess didn't happen last season attendance would've been 14k+. If the team was also winning I bet they'd be at 16.5k.

I tend to agree, which is why I can't understand why anyone would ask me to have complete faith in IA when they have proven to be so apt to blow holes in their feet with shotguns.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I tend to agree, which is why I can't understand why anyone would ask me to have complete faith in IA when they have proven to be so apt to blow holes in their feet with shotguns.

Goligoski signing and saying he is confident the team is staying won me over. And with getting an AHL team in the state, owners buying new homes, and the continued effort to grow the game here also makes me very confident the team isn't going anywhere.

 

[Jakey53]

The Dbacks are awful and their attendance isn't that bad. The 25k range is pretty normal for a lot of markets. The Suns get 17k, so their fans are there.

For the average person in the Valley the team doesn't look stable. To you and I they do. But we're hardcore fans. We spend our time on a forum talking about the team. 98% of fans don't do that.

If the team had more stability more people would make the plunge with season tickets. I've heard many people say that, and have also seen a bunch take the plunge after the team got owners. Stabilty has a big effect. And season tickets are very important to sell. If people don't have them they're going to be reluncanct to buy tickets. They're schedule is more open for other events. But if they have already put their money into it the teams already got their money and they're more likely to attend and pay for parking, buy food, buy booze etc. I'm sure more would buy right now if the team was stable. The team itself is promising, but to a lot of people they're unsure if the team will be here long term so they don't want to make the investment.

I bet if the Glendale mess didn't happen last season attendance would've been 14k+. If the team was also winning I bet they'd be at 16.5k.

The Dback use to have 35-40k. The Suns were pulling in 15.5k a couple of years ago and now they have started their rebuild it is starting to go up. I understand what you are saying, but I would bet my last dollar when the team signs a new deal on an arena we will have the same people say they want a better product on ice before they will commit, or the weather is to hot, or the drive is too long, or the games start to early on weekdays, etc. etc. etc. I'm not saying buy season tickets or partial season tickets, but go to a few games a year, buy some merchandise, even a hat or something to help this team succeed.

 

[Jakey53]

The new building represents permanence of a relationship. I liken it to the girl you meet who says that her father may be relocating the family if a little bit. It's hard to allow yourself to become really attached because you don't want the misery of her being torn away from you.

For the Coyotes to flourish, they must have an arena either downtown or on my side of Phoenix. The drive for the majority of fans must be less than the 90 minute drive it takes during week days, and the drive can't be mostly bumper to bumper, as it is now to get to Glendale.

But that shouldn't stop you from taking her out on a few dates while she is still here.

Of course the Yotes need a new arena to succeed, but until that is settled why not enjoy the team while you can regardless of your position.

 

[Jakey53]

Goligoski signing and saying he is confident the team is staying won me over. And with getting an AHL team in the state, owners buying new homes, and the continued effort to grow the game here also makes me very confident the team isn't going anywhere.

The team is not going anywhere, but the excuses will never stop, never, just like the talk on BOH boards and the media in Canada.

 

[Jakey53]

I don't trust IA because of the Glendale audit. But if they manage to actually follow through and get a new barn built in the East Valley, it'll be a huge boost to their credibility.



Jakey, I'm often amused by your dogged insistence on being contrarian and in hockey matters I think you sometimes make some good points. But don't make the mistake of telling me what I will or won't do again.



I tend to agree, which is why I can't understand why anyone would ask me to have complete faith in IA when they have proven to be so apt to blow holes in their feet with shotguns.

Sorry if I offended you, I did not mean it to sound that way.

 

[Summer Rose]

But that shouldn't stop you from taking her out on a few dates while she is still here.

Yes, but only a few. Not a full commitment like season tickets

 

[kihekah19*]

But don't make the mistake of telling me what I will or won't do again.
.

How would that be a mistake?

You do realize where you're at, don't you?

 

[TheLegend]

No one is criticizing them. If they look in the mirror and feel,criticized.... That's on them.

Uh.... your post from page one.

What the hell is wrong with you people? They have a building. How's about we fill it?

Fill the building and there will be no subsidy required.

I would certainly consider that criticizing other Forum 40 posters.

You are correct though in that they have a building to play in...... for one year. That's not what I would consider long term security but if anyone wants to keep buying into that then that's fine.

 

[Jakey53]

Yes, but only a few. Not a full commitment like season tickets

I didn't say season tickets. Buy merchandise, buy something.

 

[Summer Rose]

I didn't say season tickets. Buy merchandise, buy something.

Remember, you're talking to the girl who shelled out $190 on a jersey that says "Swift 13" on it.

Would love one of the women's cut home Duclair ones though.

 

[Jamieh]

I attend about 10 Suns games a year and would find those attendance figures highly suspect. I think in last few years Suns and Coyotes are very similar in number of butts in seats.

The Dbacks are awful and their attendance isn't that bad. The 25k range is pretty normal for a lot of markets. The Suns get 17k, so their fans are there.

For the average person in the Valley the team doesn't look stable. To you and I they do. But we're hardcore fans. We spend our time on a forum talking about the team. 98% of fans don't do that.

If the team had more stability more people would make the plunge with season tickets. I've heard many people say that, and have also seen a bunch take the plunge after the team got owners. Stabilty has a big effect. And season tickets are very important to sell. If people don't have them they're going to be reluncanct to buy tickets. They're schedule is more open for other events. But if they have already put their money into it the teams already got their money and they're more likely to attend and pay for parking, buy food, buy booze etc. I'm sure more would buy right now if the team was stable. The team itself is promising, but to a lot of people they're unsure if the team will be here long term so they don't want to make the investment.

I bet if the Glendale mess didn't happen last season attendance would've been 14k+. If the team was also winning I bet they'd be at 16.5k.

 

[rt]

Perhaps, but if it's the only place to eat those same customers would be fools to let themselves starve.

It's not. Obviously. There are TONS of options for entertainment.

 

[kihekah19*]

Uh.... your post from page one.



I would certainly consider that criticizing other Forum 40 posters.

You are correct though in that they have a building to play in...... for one year. That's not what I would consider long term security but if anyone wants to keep buying into that then that's fine.

Consider yourself as having considered wrong then. My question related to the persistent whining for a new arena and that was the only criticism given.

My stance is pretty simple, be there long term, short term, or no "security" (as if security has anything to do with it) - like the game and want the game to stay - go to game and support. IE: fill the building forum 40 or otherwise.