It is time to start chanting fire Blashill at the Joe

[GMR]

Why wouldn't they chant fire Holland? He's more responsible for this ******, untalented roster. Blashill has only been here 1.5 years, and they barely made the playoffs with Babcock in his last few years.

 

[Reddwit]

Why must everything be so binary? There are gray areas in between "saving the sinking ship" and "completely unnecessary". Team is heading for a top 3 pick. Take that pick this year and probably next (assuming Blashill stays), then we start hopefully seeing Larkin+Mantha+Hronek/Saarijarvi/Cholo+Mrazek+Top 3 2017 pick+top 3 2018 pick making this team better, but they'll need some support. Nielsen/Abby/Helm/Dekeyser/Glendening/Nyquist is a solid support group.

Dude, its tiring arguing with you. You aren't going to convince anyone that signing Nielsen, Abby, Helm, et al. to fat, long-term contracts because you need support down the line is a good idea. We are maxed out cap wise because of it. We won't be able to compete for FAs because of it. We can't take on salary dumps for assets because of it. We're going to have to retain if we ever need to trade these guys because of it.

And yeah, retaining half these guys was completely unnecessary. I'm not going to argue about which ones because thats not the point here - we retained or added far too many "completely unnecessary" contracts.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

As a Canucks fan, I recommend against this.

The last time I heard a firing chant in an arena, it was for Gillis.

And we got Benning now.

 

[Reddwit]

Why wouldn't they chant fire Holland? He's more responsible for this ******, untalented roster. Blashill has only been here 1.5 years, and they barely made the playoffs with Babcock in his last few years.

True, but Holland will never be fired. Hell, he probably won't ever be publicly blamed by the organization for any of this.

 

[Reddwit]

As a Canucks fan, I recommend against this.

The last time I heard a firing chant in an arena, it was for Gillis.

And we got Benning now.

That's a scary thought.

But in a way, Holland has kind of morphed into a Benning-esque GM: Trades decent picks for questionable adds. Still signing 30+ year old veterans to long, heavy contracts despite clearly not having a competitive roster. Adding overpaid 4th line grinders for whatever reason.

I don't think Holland is quite as bad as Benning is, but its not an unfair comparison.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Dude, its tiring arguing with you. You aren't going to convince anyone that signing Nielsen, Abby, Helm, et al. to fat, long-term contracts because you need support down the line is a good idea. We are maxed out cap wise because of it. We won't be able to compete for FAs because of it. We can't take on salary dumps for assets because of it. We're going to have to retain if we ever need to trade these guys because of it.

And yeah, retaining half these guys was completely unnecessary. I'm not going to argue about which ones because thats not the point here - we retained or added far too many "completely unnecessary" contracts.

It's also tiring to argue with people who think 3 or 4 contracts will bring doom to an entire franchise and prevent us from doing literally anything.

 

[Claypool]

It's also tiring to argue with people who think 3 or 4 contracts will bring doom to an entire franchise and prevent us from doing literally anything.

I gave up trying to argue this point awhile go, too.

 

[Henkka]

It's also tiring to argue with people who think 3 or 4 contracts will bring doom to an entire franchise and prevent us from doing literally anything.

Yep. It doesn't make any difference to our team if there's cap space or not.

Holland used to cap to get free assets, so he can sell people later. It will be funny moment, when people will be so surprised about this. Ken Holland team fails first time for two decades,, oh my god, he becomes a seller!

These summer signings did not hurt the team at all. Everybody was an asset locked and didn't prevent and meaningful kid for playing for this team. Without them it would be even worse, but there's no incentive in being any more worse.

 

[Bench]

Holland used to cap to get free assets, so he can sell people later.

Helm and Neilsen aren't being sold. Even if they were, you'd be *lucky* to get a 3rd round pick.

So... Vanek gets sold for a 2nd? That's the big prestige? Hugh Jackman did it better.

You know sometimes people try and fail. Holland has tried to build a winner here and capped out the budget doing so. Why are we rewriting this as anything other than a gross overestimate of how he thought his players would perform?

 

[Henkka]

Helm and Neilsen aren't being sold. Even if they were, you'd be *lucky* to get a 3rd round pick.

They could be sold on the near end of their deals. There's no need now, or next season or season after that.

No player will be sold at any deadline, who has more than 2 year left o his contract. Usually it's those 1-year UFAs, like Smith and Vanek. If you don't like getting extra picks of them, so good for you.

 

[Winger98]

The time to deal Helm or Gator and get any actual value from them is past. Dealing them in five years won't net jack, and Holland won't move them at that point anyway. He'll play out the string and let them walk at that point.

 

[RabidBadger]

Is it just me that considers it weird to blame the roster when this team sucks - widespread around here -, but the kids playing great is thanks to Blash?

The well performing kids partially comprise a roster that is, essentially, expected to not do much. The two are mutually exclusive when discussing the overall success of the team. Think of Ekblad developing on a very mediocre Panthers team. Ya feel me, bruh?

I only think it's weird you are assuming I am making diametrically opposing statements on Blash's coaching ability when I am clearly not

 

[Bench]

The time to deal Helm or Gator and get any actual value from them is past. Dealing them in five years won't net jack, and Holland won't move them at that point anyway. He'll play out the string and let them walk at that point.

You sure people won't be lining up for a mid-30s "up and down the lineup" guy making $4 million?

Teddy Purcell was traded, at age 30, with 32 points in 61 games, for a 3rd round pick. He then signed for under $2 million bucks this summer on a 1 year deal. There's your valuation.

So absolute best case scenario you get a 3rd round pick with retention. But... I doubt it.

 

[Winger98]

You sure people won't be lining up for a mid-30s "up and down the lineup" guy making $4 million?

Teddy Purcell was traded, at age 30, with 32 points in 61 games, for a 3rd round pick. He then signed for under $2 million bucks this summer on a 1 year deal. There's your valuation.

So absolute best case scenario you get a 3rd round pick with retention. But... I doubt it.

Yeah, I don't think they have a ton of value, either. But I think it's moot as Holland won't deal them. A guy like Smith? Sure, Holland will cut him loose at the TDL, but the Wings never showed any real commitment to the guy as being part of the core. Guys like Gator and Helm are clearly being cast in the light as core guys we keep around to carry the torch of The Red Wings Way. These guys are not being moved.

 

[Pavels Dog]

You know sometimes people try and fail. Holland has tried to build a winner here and capped out the budget doing so. Why are we rewriting this as anything other than a gross overestimate of how he thought his players would perform?

It would be stupid for us to not be a cap team. Dead cap space = lost value you can't get back. Whether we spend that cap on Helm/Abby/Nielsen or if we went out and got similar players on shorter deals, being a cap team is the only option for us.

 

[1kegger1]

Fire Blash....

IMHO... Blash had his chance... this team needs a motivator & butt kicker, not a milktoast coach like Blashill (& Babcock for that matter)... the stands behind the bench with that dorky dumfounded smile on his face like he's actually pleased with something? This team is not up to par with the elite teams in the league for sure, but they sure can be competitive! There is absolutely no offensive organization AT ALL and hasn't been for the last few years! 20 goal scorers should be plentiful but we struggle to score even 1 goal most games over and over and over. With lackadaisical play the norm with effort in the last 3 minutes there would be people benched left and right and made to stand up for their poor play and inconstancy. For crynoutloud do we not remember Scotty throwing Federov & Yzerman on defense for their not following the program?.... or Shanahan being benched and Scotty throwing names out to the press on who he thought should stand up and take notice? Make players know there in the dog house and not be rewarded for repeating the same mistakes over and over and over. I know Hitchcock says he doesn't wanna coach but give him a try... enough of hiring "players coaches". Thanks for listening to the rant... gotta run and go watch the game... sigh.

 

[chances14]

uhhh.. since when has babcock ever been known to go easy on players????

 

[aar000n]

Blashill is a lesser copy of babock. Babcock was trash his last year. Remember the Abby cleary dats line? Sammy Bert cleary over tartar and Nyquist. Now we have sheham a purely bumblecock move.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Dude, its tiring arguing with you. You aren't going to convince anyone that signing Nielsen, Abby, Helm, et al. to fat, long-term contracts because you need support down the line is a good idea. We are maxed out cap wise because of it. We won't be able to compete for FAs because of it. We can't take on salary dumps for assets because of it. We're going to have to retain if we ever need to trade these guys because of it.

And yeah, retaining half these guys was completely unnecessary. I'm not going to argue about which ones because thats not the point here - we retained or added far too many "completely unnecessary" contracts.

And what are we ACTUALLY out by being maxed out capwise? What trades would we get for taking on bad contracts, really? For 7.5M in space, Arizona flopped four picks AND gave up a second. For Tuevo Teraveinen, Carolina gave up $4M, a second and a third.

Picking up dead money for assets is not this fount of value that you think it is.

And we won't be able to compete for FAs? We literally just had $10M+ that was open on our books to make a pitch to Steven Stamkos THIS YEAR. Everyone wants to sell Mike Green, Thomas Vanek, etc. That opens up $6M, 2.6M, and whatever other salary.

All of the *****ing about the cap has easy talking points (highest cap hit in the league for this, etc.) but it ignores the fact that having cap space means nothing if you don't use it... and the Wings will 1) suck whether they used it to pull a couple 2nd-4th from other teams to run the Brian Bickells of the world out there or 2) used it the way they have.

Nobody is going to sell you an elite player or a great chance at an elite player for taking on their garbage.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Not using that cap space is more valuable than using it. Nielsen is completely useless on a rebuilding roster that is 5+ years away from being relevant again.

Rebuilding teams should maximize their potential options.

That's the bottom line.

As for Blashill. He is just a fall guy for a roster that was completely devoid of talent and was forced to coach a Frankenstein roster that was built to fail.

A blind monkey with Alzheimer's could have seen this coming.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not using that cap space is more valuable than using it. Nielsen is completely useless on a rebuilding roster that is 5+ years away from being relevant again.

Rebuilding teams should maximize their potential options.

Cap space does not equal maximizing your "options", in fact one of the few reasons some teams have a lot of cap space is because they don't have any better options available, either due to cheap ownership or an inability to attract players to their team or develop their own homegrown talent in such a way that they command a decent salary. Clearing up cap space is generally much easier than filling it with worthwhile assets.