Prospect Info: Isles Prospect Talk PART XVII

[xECK29x]

Isles Prospect Talk PART XVI

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[Riseonfire]

Watched Dal Colle today. I liked what I saw, super quick on the trigger pull.

Everytime I have to watch Strome shoot the puck wide or at the goalie I think what it'll be like with Dal Colle on that trigger and Strome being able to dish.

 

[PWJunior]

Watched Dal Colle today. I liked what I saw, super quick on the trigger pull.

Everytime I have to watch Strome shoot the puck wide or at the goalie I think what it'll be like with Dal Colle on that trigger and Strome being able to dish.

Dal Colle is definitely not shy about pulling the trigger, I really like that he gets it on net. He's got a very nice release and can elevate it from in tight as evidenced by his goal. He really had a ton of good chances, looked very dangerous lurking in the offensive zone. He's got good offensive instincts, underrated playmaking ability.

He still needs to get bigger/stronger, his game is still too passive. I'm hoping as he matures, he'll step up the physicality and be more assertive. He needs to work on his skating, especially on his initial strides.

I liked what I saw, he looks confident and confidence can make a world of difference. The skill and talent is there, he's still a boy and not a man. He'll need at least a year in the AHL to prepare him for the rigors of the NHL.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Last point on the Crouse thing is that high picks should not e wasted on question marks.

The evidence seems to points to P/60 being the most predictive of NHL success which is why scoring is so valuable.

Stephen Burtchs work on this is pretty conclusive. I recommend it but I'm on my phone. Google it.

Anyway, reaching for a player because of his size over productivity is bad strategy. It is the same reason you should never take a goalie early because the predictability of these guys to have NHL success commensurate with their peers is just not there.

Finally you are saying he is on the trajectory of second round picks! He might have been a great pick in the second round but the first was too early considering who was available at that selection. Players more likely to yield substantial NHL success.

Also his best attribute is his defensive ability and that's a bit of a red flag because it is a rare day indeed that a player develops more offensive skills. Just like you can't teach size you can't teach scoring touch either. In today's NHL scoring is far more important than size.

 

[WangMustGo]

Dal Colle is definitely not shy about pulling the trigger, I really like that he gets it on net. He's got a very nice release and can elevate it from in tight as evidenced by his goal. He really had a ton of good chances, looked very dangerous lurking in the offensive zone. He's got good offensive instincts, underrated playmaking ability.

He still needs to get bigger/stronger, his game is still too passive. I'm hoping as he matures, he'll step up the physicality and be more assertive. He needs to work on his skating, especially on his initial strides.

I liked what I saw, he looks confident and confidence can make a world of difference. The skill and talent is there, he's still a boy and not a man. He'll need at least a year in the AHL to prepare him for the rigors of the NHL.

He has a great shot, from the few games I saw of MDC he needs to work on going to the dirty areas. Has he improved his board play?

I think he is still atleast 2 years away, but I think the patience will pay of with MDC. Once he develops his man strength I think he will be scoring 30+ regularly.

 

[seafoam]

Last point on the Crouse thing is that high picks should not e wasted on question marks.

The evidence seems to points to P/60 being the most predictive of NHL success which is why scoring is so valuable.

Stephen Burtchs work on this is pretty conclusive. I recommend it but I'm on my phone. Google it.

Anyway, reaching for a player because of his size over productivity is bad strategy. It is the same reason you should never take a goalie early because the predictability of these guys to have NHL success commensurate with their peers is just not there.

Finally you are saying he is on the trajectory of second round picks! He might have been a great pick in the second round but the first was too early considering who was available at that selection. Players more likely to yield substantial NHL success.

Also his best attribute is his defensive ability and that's a bit of a red flag because it is a rare day indeed that a player develops more offensive skills. Just like you can't teach size you can't teach scoring touch either. In today's NHL scoring is far more important than size.

I like his work too, but I contemplate clicking that unfollow button daily. He is a pretentious, Leafs homer who is more of a "stat-boy" than you to the point where it comes across as arrogant.

 

[First Blood]

OHL

Michael Dal Colle 1 G, -1, 1 shot (Kingston winning 4-1, 1st period ending soon)

QMJHL

Beauvillier 0 points, +1 (Shawinigan won 3-2)

WHL

Parker Wotherspoon game start 7:00 MST

Mathew Barzal game start 7:05 PST

 

[First Blood]

OHL

Michael Dal Colle 1 G, -1, 1 shot, 4 PIM's (Kingston wins 6-5)

WHL

Parker Wotherspoon 2 A, +3, 2 PIM's (Tri-City wins 5-2)

Mathew Barzal 2 A, -2, 2 PIM (Seattle down 4-3 13:08 left in 3rd)

 

[TheWhiteWhale30]

OHL

Michael Dal Colle 1 G, -1, 1 shot, 4 PIM's (Kingston wins 6-5)

WHL

Parker Wotherspoon 2 A, +3, 2 PIM's (Tri-City wins 5-2)

Mathew Barzal 2 A, -2, 2 PIM (Seattle down 4-3 13:08 left in 3rd)

Thanks for the update !

Note: Seattle came back to win 6-5 in OT.

Barzal 3A, -2

 

[WinhallVT124]

No one ever talks about Devon Toews, but he is having an excellent season at Quinnipiac. 6 g, 18 a in 27 games. Really unsung prospect.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Dal Colle is definitely not shy about pulling the trigger, I really like that he gets it on net. He's got a very nice release and can elevate it from in tight as evidenced by his goal. He really had a ton of good chances, looked very dangerous lurking in the offensive zone. He's got good offensive instincts, underrated playmaking ability.

He still needs to get bigger/stronger, his game is still too passive. I'm hoping as he matures, he'll step up the physicality and be more assertive. He needs to work on his skating, especially on his initial strides.

I liked what I saw, he looks confident and confidence can make a world of difference. The skill and talent is there, he's still a boy and not a man. He'll need at least a year in the AHL to prepare him for the rigors of the NHL.

I'm assuming you saw the Sportsnet feed. You missed out on the usual Kingston broadcasts, where the play by play guy is one of the most biased homers you'll ever hear.

It's actually pretty funny, if you don't take it too seriously. A Kingston player will trip, he'll scream about no call being made and go on and on about it for a while, until the replay shows the Kingston player tripped on his own. He'll reluctantly relent and say that the ref has been letting a lot go prior, so he just assumed it was the case again.

On Dal Colle:

-I've noticed he's not a big threat one on one. It might be because he lacks the explosiveness in his skating to burn defenders, but he doesn't seem to be a guy that can turn a one on one into a scoring chance. He's better at working short passes with linemates and moving the puck around with the give and go.

-His shot is great in that even when it doesn't result in a goal, it's typically because of a save by the goalie. Very rarely does Dal Colle waste a scoring opportunity by shooting the puck wide/high of the net. It seems to either be a goal, a rebound chance, or a save.

-One of the Kingston commentators mentioned he talked to a scout that follows the league, and the scout mentioned to him he didn't see Dal Colle smile even once this season until the trade to Kingston. For reasons none of us know, it's clear something was off with him in Oshawa and the trade to Kingston has revitalized him.

 

[SI90]

I'm assuming you saw the Sportsnet feed. You missed out on the usual Kingston broadcasts, where the play by play guy is one of the most biased homers you'll ever hear.

It's actually pretty funny, if you don't take it too seriously. A Kingston player will trip, he'll scream about no call being made and go on and on about it for a while, until the replay shows the Kingston player tripped on his own. He'll reluctantly relent and say that the ref has been letting a lot go prior, so he just assumed it was the case again.

On Dal Colle:

-I've noticed he's not a big threat one on one. It might be because he lacks the explosiveness in his skating to burn defenders, but he doesn't seem to be a guy that can turn a one on one into a scoring chance. He's better at working short passes with linemates and moving the puck around with the give and go.

-His shot is great in that even when it doesn't result in a goal, it's typically because of a save by the goalie. Very rarely does Dal Colle waste a scoring opportunity by shooting the puck wide/high of the net. It seems to either be a goal, a rebound chance, or a save.

-One of the Kingston commentators mentioned he talked to a scout that follows the league, and the scout mentioned to him he didn't see Dal Colle smile even once this season until the trade to Kingston. For reasons none of us know, it's clear something was off with him in Oshawa and the trade to Kingston has revitalized him.

Interesting about MDC possibly being unhappy Oshawa. Could have been that his Head coach left? I still think he should have played through it if that was actually the case. That's passed us now and he's killing it with Kingston.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Interesting about MDC possibly being unhappy Oshawa. Could have been that his Head coach left? I still think he should have played through it if that was actually the case. That's passed us now and he's killing it with Kingston.

It could very well be as simple as the coaching change bringing in a system that was ill-suited to Dal Colle's game.

I know we, as fans, tend to think players need to just play through it, but it's sometimes not as easy as that. Perfect example is what I've seen in Pittsburgh, with Crosby under Johnston and now Sullivan. Under Johnston, Crosby had 19 points in like 28 games (including only 6 goals). Since the coaching change, when Sullivan has opened things up and they aren't playing a ridiculously conservative style, Sid's got 34 points in 25 games, including 18 goals.

Things might just have steamrolled for Dal Colle. He struggles at the pro camp, is a bit let down by being sent back to junior, and then comes into a situation where the new coach has the team playing a style that doesn't mesh well with Dal Colle's strengths. So he's got a lot of, what I'd say, "little things" that add up: a bit of confidence blow at being sent back, system that doesn't mesh with his style, and maybe just a bit snake bit. Add those up and suddenly you see a player who isn't having fun.

Speculation on my part, of course. It's just sometimes the answer could be a lot more involved than just assuming MDC had some sort of sulky attitude and didn't care for the first 30 games (not saying YOU think that, just saying in general).

 

[PWJunior]

It could very well be as simple as the coaching change bringing in a system that was ill-suited to Dal Colle's game.

I know we, as fans, tend to think players need to just play through it, but it's sometimes not as easy as that. Perfect example is what I've seen in Pittsburgh, with Crosby under Johnston and now Sullivan. Under Johnston, Crosby had 19 points in like 28 games (including only 6 goals). Since the coaching change, when Sullivan has opened things up and they aren't playing a ridiculously conservative style, Sid's got 34 points in 25 games, including 18 goals.

Things might just have steamrolled for Dal Colle. He struggles at the pro camp, is a bit let down by being sent back to junior, and then comes into a situation where the new coach has the team playing a style that doesn't mesh well with Dal Colle's strengths. So he's got a lot of, what I'd say, "little things" that add up: a bit of confidence blow at being sent back, system that doesn't mesh with his style, and maybe just a bit snake bit. Add those up and suddenly you see a player who isn't having fun.

Speculation on my part, of course. It's just sometimes the answer could be a lot more involved than just assuming MDC had some sort of sulky attitude and didn't care for the first 30 games (not saying YOU think that, just saying in general).

We'll probably never know the real details as to why he was so bad in Oshawa, the big thing is he's back to performing at a high level in Kingston. He looks like the player that was a top pick again.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I like his work too, but I contemplate clicking that unfollow button daily. He is a pretentious, Leafs homer who is more of a "stat-boy" than you to the point where it comes across as arrogant.

I'm reading this to mean you think I'm NOT arrogant and I'll take that every time!

 

[periferal]

No one ever talks about Devon Toews, but he is having an excellent season at Quinnipiac. 6 g, 18 a in 27 games. Really unsung prospect.

I assumed that despite his numbers, his size and talent level wouldn't translate to the NHL. If someone has been following him and feels different I'd love to hear it.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I assumed that despite his numbers, his size and talent level wouldn't translate to the NHL. If someone has been following him and feels different I'd love to hear it.

A buddy of mine was a big star at Quinnipiac. I'll ask him if he knows anything.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I'm assuming you saw the Sportsnet feed. You missed out on the usual Kingston broadcasts, where the play by play guy is one of the most biased homers you'll ever hear.

It's actually pretty funny, if you don't take it too seriously. A Kingston player will trip, he'll scream about no call being made and go on and on about it for a while, until the replay shows the Kingston player tripped on his own. He'll reluctantly relent and say that the ref has been letting a lot go prior, so he just assumed it was the case again.

On Dal Colle:

-I've noticed he's not a big threat one on one. It might be because he lacks the explosiveness in his skating to burn defenders, but he doesn't seem to be a guy that can turn a one on one into a scoring chance. He's better at working short passes with linemates and moving the puck around with the give and go.

-His shot is great in that even when it doesn't result in a goal, it's typically because of a save by the goalie. Very rarely does Dal Colle waste a scoring opportunity by shooting the puck wide/high of the net. It seems to either be a goal, a rebound chance, or a save.

-One of the Kingston commentators mentioned he talked to a scout that follows the league, and the scout mentioned to him he didn't see Dal Colle smile even once this season until the trade to Kingston. For reasons none of us know, it's clear something was off with him in Oshawa and the trade to Kingston has revitalized him.

Eh, this doesn't really mean much yet. I mean, I guess it's encouraging, but the speed of the NHL he's not going to have that much time to get a shot off and with bigger bodies out their blocking that whole shot thing could change in a heartbeat. I kind of laughed when Butchie said Bossy could still score 50 in this day and age. Call me a skeptic about that for sure. I don't watch Dal Colle play. I can only comment on other people's post, so take it with a grain of salt. I just tend not to get excited about prospects until I am able to see how they play in the NHL. The other poster who isn't high on Pulock, don't worry. I'm in the same boat. Not because of what I see from Pulock, just because I don't get prospect fever. I feel it's better to not get your hopes up about a prospect and wait and see. Probably the reason i'm not giving Strome a hard time. I didn't expect that much anyway.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Eh, this doesn't really mean much yet. I mean, I guess it's encouraging, but the speed of the NHL he's not going to have that much time to get a shot off and with bigger bodies out their blocking that whole shot thing could change in a heartbeat. I kind of laughed when Butchie said Bossy could still score 50 in this day and age. Call me a skeptic about that for sure. I don't watch Dal Colle play. I can only comment on other people's post, so take it with a grain of salt. I just tend not to get excited about prospects until I am able to see how they play in the NHL. The other poster who isn't high on Pulock, don't worry. I'm in the same boat. Not because of what I see from Pulock, just because I don't get prospect fever. I feel it's better to not get your hopes up about a prospect and wait and see. Probably the reason i'm not giving Strome a hard time. I didn't expect that much anyway.

Well, that's what is encouraging about his ability to shoot the puck. He gets off his shot incredibly quickly *and* is still able to get the puck on net the vast majority of the time. It's not like he's got this wicked shot, but it takes him days to wind up. He's got a lightning quick release that's also accurate. A lot of junior "scorers" can't get their shots off quickly and still maintain that sort of accuracy.

Obviously he'll still need to work on various aspects of his game in order to be able to get into those sort of scoring positions with regularity at the NHL level. But the shot itself, and the fact he's got a nose for finding those soft spots in coverage (it's a natural instinct), should be encouraging to Islanders fans.

In other words, the concerns should be less about the actual shot's release, speed, and accuracy when he does get the chance, and more about his ability to find that time and space -- whether it be by improving his speed so he can quickly get to openings more easily, or by improving his strength so he can out-battle the opposition for real estate in the slot.

 

[frankieboy]

Eh, this doesn't really mean much yet. I mean, I guess it's encouraging, but the speed of the NHL he's not going to have that much time to get a shot off and with bigger bodies out their blocking that whole shot thing could change in a heartbeat. I kind of laughed when Butchie said Bossy could still score 50 in this day and age. Call me a skeptic about that for sure. I don't watch Dal Colle play. I can only comment on other people's post, so take it with a grain of salt. I just tend not to get excited about prospects until I am able to see how they play in the NHL. The other poster who isn't high on Pulock, don't worry. I'm in the same boat. Not because of what I see from Pulock, just because I don't get prospect fever. I feel it's better to not get your hopes up about a prospect and wait and see. Probably the reason i'm not giving Strome a hard time. I didn't expect that much anyway.

I disagree about Bossy. Part of me is offended that you would challenge an Islander legend. The man is damn near 60 so it is extremely hard to project his talent...from another era...to today. But, he was a natural scorer. Even the best scorers of the last 20 years think he is the best goal scorer of all time. I've heard Gretzky, Hull, Lemieux all call him the greatest goal scorer of all time. I bet his talent would have shown through even today. He just would have had to train harder.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I disagree about Bossy. Part of me is offended that you would challenge an Islander legend. The man is damn near 60 so it is extremely hard to project his talent...from another era...to today. But, he was a natural scorer. Even the best scorers of the last 20 years think he is the best goal scorer of all time. I've heard Gretzky, Hull, Lemieux all call him the greatest goal scorer of all time. I bet his talent would have shown through even today. He just would have had to train harder.

To each his own. In a game that's way more physical it's unlikely that Bossy's back would have held up as long as it did in that era. His career probably would have been even shorter.

I don't think claiming Bossy wouldn't score 50 every season in today's NHL is a knock on Bossy (Butchie said he would do that). Most current NHLers can't do that. I think it's just being realistic. Alas we will never know...

And as far as challenging an Islanders legend, should I remind you the comments on here about his broadcasting acumen and those even further back about his coaching prowess, lol?

 

[LeapOnOver]

Well, that's what is encouraging about his ability to shoot the puck. He gets off his shot incredibly quickly *and* is still able to get the puck on net the vast majority of the time. It's not like he's got this wicked shot, but it takes him days to wind up. He's got a lightning quick release that's also accurate. A lot of junior "scorers" can't get their shots off quickly and still maintain that sort of accuracy.

Obviously he'll still need to work on various aspects of his game in order to be able to get into those sort of scoring positions with regularity at the NHL level. But the shot itself, and the fact he's got a nose for finding those soft spots in coverage (it's a natural instinct), should be encouraging to Islanders fans.

In other words, the concerns should be less about the actual shot's release, speed, and accuracy when he does get the chance, and more about his ability to find that time and space -- whether it be by improving his speed so he can quickly get to openings more easily, or by improving his strength so he can out-battle the opposition for real estate in the slot.

Fair enough. Will be great if he can improve on the latter and translate the former into NHL success.

 

[TROLLCHUK]

To each his own. In a game that's way more physical it's unlikely that Bossy's back would have held up as long as it did in that era. His career probably would have been even shorter.

I don't think claiming Bossy wouldn't score 50 every season in today's NHL is a knock on Bossy (Butchie said he would do that). Most current NHLers can't do that. I think it's just being realistic. Alas we will never know...

And as far as challenging an Islanders legend, should I remind you the comments on here about his broadcasting acumen and those even further back about his coaching prowess, lol?

One would assume a current day Bossy would not be smoking and would be hitting the gym on a regular basis. So maybe the back issue never occurs.

 

[Axel]

To each his own. In a game that's way more physical it's unlikely that Bossy's back would have held up as long as it did in that era. His career probably would have been even shorter.

I don't think claiming Bossy wouldn't score 50 every season in today's NHL is a knock on Bossy (Butchie said he would do that). Most current NHLers can't do that. I think it's just being realistic. Alas we will never know...

And as far as challenging an Islanders legend, should I remind you the comments on here about his broadcasting acumen and those even further back about his coaching prowess, lol?

Not to go way off topic on a prospect thread but I completely disagree with your argument about the game being way more physical now. The NHL of the late 70's and early 80's was extremely physical and some of the goon players were brutal to Bossy. He was constantly getting cross-checked in the back (a similar issue that Mario Lemieux had to deal with), something that is rarely seen or allowed in today's game. One could argue that Bossy would have not had back issues if he played today and may have had a much longer career. That being said, the size of the goalies and their equipment made it a lot easier to score during that era. It difficult to say how many goals Bossy would have scored in today's game.

 

[PROMputt]

Not to go way off topic on a prospect thread but I completely disagree with your argument about the game being way more physical now. The NHL of the late 70's and early 80's was extremely physical and some of the goon players were brutal to Bossy. He was constantly getting cross-checked in the back (a similar issue that Mario Lemieux had to deal with), something that is rarely seen or allowed in today's game. One could argue that Bossy would have not had back issues if he played today and may have had a much longer career. That being said, the size of the goalies and their equipment made it a lot easier to score during that era. It difficult to say how many goals Bossy would have scored in today's game.

I was just coming to write the same thing. Bossy took all sorts of abuse from goons and lesser talents that would not be in today's game- period. Mike Bossy was a pure goal scorer and his talent would translate into any era in my opinion.