I respectfully disagree that JHS's ceiling is sky high, I think he is who he is, I think he's a minor leaguer at best. He's never dominated at the level HE feels his talent level is at. HUGE ego, which I don't have a problem with, if he backed it up statistically. Does he have elite skills, no doubt, will he ever be an elite player, I doubt it very much. I think his ceiling is 10 goals, 25 assists 35 points. In fact I'd love to see him do that in the NHL, but he may never get back to the NHL.
Prospect Info: Isles Prospect Talk PART XI
- Thread starter PK Cronin
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I think you go too far. I'd like to see Josh Ho-Sang with a coach who knows how to take the right approach with him. We all saw how he did with Marty Williamson. Ho-Sang has the ability to not only be a good player (not a top line player), but also provide an emotional lift for a team that can harness him. But it's going to be a struggle to get him there.
Strictly speaking of guys who had their first NHL games in 2017-18 (excluding Barzal because he had 2 games in prior year):
Sebastian Aho - Undersized but very smart, had great positioning and made few mistakes, moves the puck well and seems to be somebody who can dish out a good outlet pass, but could be more crisp in the offensive zone. I like him as a third pairing d-man and would rather have him on a long contract than Pelech or Mayfield.
Michael Dal Colle - Really underwhelmed in his NHL debut in the few games he had, didn't make any great or memorable plays and seemed to be afraid to use his body. Still young so he has time to improve but based on what we have seen over the last couple of years he doesn't look to have the offensive skills to be a top 6, nor the defensive skills to be a bottom 6, not sure what his future will be.
Tanner Fritz - Always seem to notice him, he is giving 110% effort every shift it seems like, but just doesn't really appear to have the talent to be a major contributor in the NHL. Could be a decent 13th forward.
PK Cronin
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Aho is small, quick, and mediocre/bad defensively. He'll likely become a bottom pairing defenseman who can move the puck. It was his first year on NHL ice, so some of his defensive lapses make sense and he was thrown to the wolves during his stint. Wouldn't be surprised to see him have a decent NHL career or bust out.
Fritz is a plug and play kind of guy who hustles. He's got some skill, but not a ton and just works hard. Not sure if he'd always play that way if he was an NHL regular. Reminds me a lot of Colin McDonald.
Dal Colle, since someone else brought him up, was underwhelming but didn't make mistakes while playing. He was on the abysmal third line and during his stretch was likely instructed to be more cautious and play a simple game. Big body, hustled, doesn't really get physical too much and has little ability to create chances for himself.
replayer
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As a 21 year old he had 10 points in 21 NHL games and had a 52.1% CF and 4.9 CF% rel. I'd like to give the guy a shot with a real coach who actually knows how to use his talent and resources before we decide he's a minor leaguer.
It's been so long since we had an actual real coach and not the cheapest, easiest option available that I think many Isles fans forget the difference a good coaching staff and system can make. I have no doubt Lou is going to surround our young core with some actual experience, let's see where he is in 6 months and then decide.
I think the problem with Ho-Sang is, he has no humility, and it’s always someone else’s fault. He’s an exciting player, but he will never be as good as he thinks he is, or as we hoped he was. Not as bad as Kabanov, but I see a similar career path. I hope I’m wrong, would love to see him succeed. Loved the pick when it happened.
But you get to a point where a player is who he is. If he was gonna be great, or even good, we would have seen that already. You do have a Bailey type of miracle every once in a while, where a player becomes good at 27, but very rarely.
I don't see where you get that analysis. Kabanov was a kid who was pushed into hockey by relentless parents. He just didn't really care. Ho-Sang is a goofball who sometimes just doesn't get it, and doesn't have the hockey sense to match his skill. They're not similar at all. But that's my point - a coach that treats Ho-Sang like Kabanov will fail with Ho-Sang. If NYI are going that direction with coaching, they should trade Ho-Sang. OTOH, a coach that remolds Ho-Sang's game, and gets him to simplify it, working on hockey and not attributing things to attitude, and keeping him accountable that way, can do this.
The thing is, Ho-Sang is smart enough to realize when accountability is selective, and that will alienate him. Is that childish and immature? Yeah, maybe. What he said about accountability was true even if he shouldn't have said it. Kabanov wouldn't have said something. He'd have taken a shot of vodka and gotten a tattoo. Still it's possible that a culture change, meaning accountability applies top to bottom, would actually do wonders for Ho-Sang.
Aho - Should have been drafted years ago. Was VERY strong in the AHL and earned a shot in the NHL, even though Toews' injury paved the way a bit. He did fine in the show, displaying an ability to adjust rapidly to the pace and the challenges at hand. Is small and it showed. Makes very quick and usually accurate passes. Has a bit of an awkward style and shot, but there is some real effectiveness there. I wish he'd shoot more from the blueline. He did look like he can play NHL hockey over the long run. Don't know if his future is with the Islanders.
Fritz - He's an honest lunch pail player. He brings effort and, at times, ability, but he is generally a tick too slow for the NHL and won't be a banger or feared forechecker. At times, the game was too quick for him, especially with the puck on his stick. He did however look like a guy who his teammates enjoyed playing with. He certainly went to dirty areas, but his skating just doesn't seem to be on par. He's got a wide stance and can easily be physically removed from a play, even if does try trucking through.
Both are guys who could or just as easily could not have an NHL career in some respect. Both desperately need to continue improving. Aho has the better shot at a sustained career in the show.
We don't really know how Lou is going to view these players at this point.
When it comes to Ho-Sang, it's simply going to interesting to see how Lou views him and if he wants to keep him in the organization.
If he moves prospects, I'm thinking they'll be going in conjunction with other players (i.e. Nelson). Dal Colle, Wotherspoon, Vande Sompel, even Golyshev - guys of this nature could be parts of packages.
Ho-Sang would be the one exception. I can see him being dealt alone, because I do think there may be a team or two out there who feels he's been a bit mishandled here and they feel they can turn him into a 50-point NHLer.
One thing should be clear for all those who take a real look at other team's prospect bins: The Isles do NOT have a deep or healthy prospect system at this point. Thanks to a few guys like Sorokin and Bellows, they are felt to have a middle-of-the-road system, but it's not a healthy one. There is a lack of depth.
The following issues are there:
- No center depth. It's not about blue chippers here (which Barzal was), but the fact that there aren't any centers. Stevens, Fritz, and St. Denis are ex-college guys who've been signed as UFAs and are in their mid-20s. As things are, none are real top 4 center options at the moment. They are little more than extras. After them, the next guy on the list is who, Kyle Schempp? Are you kidding me? A guy who hardly counts as an AHLer? Outside of that, there are none. Even the NYI college and European forwards are all wingers.
- Style of defensemen: I like the defensive prospects in many respects, but the next three on the list are all basically the same style of player. Toews, Aho, and Vande Sompel are smaller, lefty, offensively-oriented Dmen who are, from a prospect standpoint, interchangeable. Quenneville has been added and is of the exact same ilk, but with a righty shot. All these guys have NHL possibilities, but they're assets and cannot be on the same NHL squad at the same time. Unfortunately, neither Wotherspoon nor recently signed Rathgeb are all that different in their mold and feature nice, but average size. Again, all are fine assets, but the blue chippers aren't there, even if I believe that Toews may be a lot better than we think. Aho and Mirageas are each fairly safe prospects at the moment, but it will be a while before we can gander at what they really are as assets. Certain is that Mirageas may be the best skating prospect in our system.
- Blue chip offensive forwards: We have one in Bellows. There is every reason to believe that this guy can be a James Neal type. After that, we have Ho-Sang, but his future with this squad is very much in doubt for several reasons. And he's the one who has to decide what he can be, should he stay here. After that, there's really no wingers in the system who have an automatic NHL future, even if each of Koivula, Golyshev, and Cockerill, as well as signee Scott Eansor, have interesting prospects.
- Two stud goaltenders are considered among our top 6 ot 7 prospects. We'll get to hopefully see why with Soderstrom this season, who is coming off a bit of a lost season after he won the SHL championship the year before. Sorokin is felt by many to be about our top overall prospect and is seen as one of the top U23 goalies on the planet. Unfortunately, he's already making millions in the KHL and there's little reason to believe he'll be available, if he so desires, until the 20-21 season. After that, there's McAdams, the other part of the Clutterbuck trade. He's won 20 of his 36 outings with BPort over the past three years. At least he's still in the system. After that, there's nothing there, so one can assume that the NYI will grab a goalie in this summer's draft - or sign a U21 kid who was never drafted.
Funny thing is, a real good 2018 draft could turn around this entire picture VERY quickly.
Or the picks can be used for immediate returns in moves that would be a bit untypical for Lamoriello and a little more Milburyian in nature.
CREW99AW
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If Kabanov had ever put up points at the nhl level, which JHS has shown he can do, your comparison might make some sense.
Man, I really think we're sleeping on Wotherspoon. For the sake of comparison, he's the same age after his first AHL season as Devon Toews was as a 2nd year player and Quinnipiac. He's definitely put on a significant amount of weight since his draft, and unlike a lot of our other prospects, his defensive game is sound to start.
It'd be great if he turns into a player.
Be it him, Vande Sompel, Quenneville, Rathgeb, Aho, Mirageas, etc., we have a lot of defensive prospects who look like they could easily be (at least) another Pelech or Mayfield.
Hopefully a few turn into another Pulock or de Haan.
- May 17, 2011
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It’s hard not to sleep on projects that take 4-6 years to get their first cup of coffee.
Not saying there is anything wrong with that, but I remember Snow drafting D year after year that were always going to take 4-6 years to get to a point where they could potentially help out the NHL club, while the NHL club struggled on D all of those years.
True. But I think I was arguing that Wotherspoon is much less of a project than those other guys because his D-game is sound. I think he'll see some games this year. And if he doesn't, it'll mean some good acquisitions.
leeroggy
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Toews is a good deal bigger at 6'1" and over 190 pounds. Both Aho and MVS are 5' 10". He's also the fastest skater in the AHL at the All Star game, these three are not interchangeable.
Indeed, Toews is far and away the top defensive prospect we have and I very much believe in him & his NHL possibilities.
What I wrote was more about the styles these players have. They are all two-way, transition-oriented defensemen who will not overwhelm in the physical department, and whose contributions are primarily in the assist column. It's the same mold of prospect.
Yeah I don’t see the comparison either. I don’t think Ho Sang is going to ever be a point per game player or anything of that sort, but he may be good for a few seasons of 20 goals 40 assists if he doesn’t get himself blacklisted out of the league.
Jester9881
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Someone on the Flames board floated the idea of trading Adam Fox for Josh Ho-Sang. If I could get assurance he would sign, I'd do it without question.
- May 17, 2011
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That would surprise me.
Calgary wouldn’t include Fox in the Hamonic trade last year despite NYI asking, and Ho-Sang has much less value now than Hamonic did at the time of the trade.
Maybe they think they’ll have a hard time signing him, or are more desperate for offense this time around, but like I said, I’d still be surprised.
CREW99AW
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If some Flame fans were not so worried Fox will walk as a ufa,they would not be putting him in so many proposals.
If I was Fox or his rep,I would have no interest in a team with a glut at the blueline. I would be looking to sign with a team lacking cheap,blueline prospects. Nothing personal, just trying to find the fastest and easiest route to the nhl.
CREW99AW
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Could be his decision to return to college had changed some mibds in the flames front office. Or maybe it is just nervous fans offering up Fox, while the front office still is willing to wait on him.
Flames prospect Fox returning to Harvard next season
Jester9881
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They need a RW, have no spot for Adam and because of that he looks to be headed back to School. If he goes that rout he can become a UFA.
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Yeah, I just re-read what you said and I misunderstood it initially. I agree, Wotherspoon’s game has always been sound, it was really putting on the weight that has been holding him back (he was one of the youngest draftees in his class IIRC), but like you said, he’s added on weight.
There’s a very real chance he’ll leapfrog Aho on the depth chart and could be breathing down Toews’ next by the end of the season.
Islanders4Cups
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Ho-Sang and the new front office coming in will be fascinating to watch.
The kid can be electric offensively and that he also is a liability defensively at the NHL level. Ho-Sang had a defensive role shoved down his throat last season.
Can’t wait to see what Lou thinks of Ho-Sang.
The kid can be electric offensively and that he also is a liability defensively at the NHL level. Ho-Sang had a defensive role shoved down his throat last season.
Can’t wait to see what Lou thinks of Ho-Sang.
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