Post-Game Talk: Islanders 4, Penguins 3 - Well That Sucks

[Al Smith]

As much as Math was the worst player on our team in the first 2 periods*, he looked decent in the third.

*Except Ceci and Lafferty because duh.

I thought he was pretty bad in the first and serviceable in the second. But I'm still willing to give him at least 15 games or so here (in which he actually plays) before I start ripping his game on a regular basis.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I like how people who just keep saying "fix the defense" haven't provided an actual rebuttal to the fact that Jarry is way below league average on those shots against.

Just blaming the defense or saying it's lazy to blame the goalies doesn't refute what the stats say. This is probably just more Fleury cultist stuff if I had to guess, Jarry's the brand new toy because he pushed the baddie Murray out of Pittsburgh.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I thought he was pretty bad in the first and serviceable in the second. But I'm still willing to give him at least 15 games or so here (in which he actually plays) before I start ripping his game on a regular basis.

I'd rather just get Pettersson and Riikola back to make those 15 games a moot point.

He is so, so bad in his own zone. A forward playing D. I wouldn't mind scratching him to give him some time to convert to wing.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah it's both. Hockey is a fast sport, you really have to pay attention to see whats really going on.

Which leads to me always bitching about the camera angle... Why do they not have a rink camera that gets both goalies and never pans? Just the entire ice so you can follow the game happening off camera.

Or or or a camera that moves from center ice to cover the entire half of one goal.... center ice .... and other goal.
Orrrrr a top down camera that covers the entire ice..... ya know... if you flip your wide screen monitor on its side to get that entire ice surface (like a video game)...

Why can't I pick my own m@(#$&@(#& f ()*@$()@* camera angle in 2021 for )(#@$*@)($* sakes... I don't care/nor need to see a zoomed in angle of the puck carrier from center ice.....

NHL.tv has a goalie cam that lets you see a decent amount of, in the Pens case, poor net front coverage.

Other stuff is easy to see on regular feeds... like I saw some people blaming POJ on the third goal yesterday and that just tells me they don’t understand hockey very well.

Blown assignments like that are pretty simple to diagnosis if you know hockey 101 TBTH.

How about helping your goalies out and play a responsible team defense? Stop the bleeding where itˋs most needed, stop giving up easy goals, because of huge mistakes.

Jarry is an avg goalie making avg goalie money.

If you play shitty D in front of him, you will get shitty results.

For whatever reasons, laziness, anger, denial... many posters can’t face that reality I guess.

You want elite goaltending, you pay dearly for it... and only two guys in this league are worth that kind of money IMHO.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Special teams is the #1 problem easily.

That coincides with the lack of production from the big guns.

I'm fine trading whomever for a goalie if Jarry/Desmith are as bad as you say. Seriously. I'm not that attached.

I'd start with moving on from DeSmith and bringing in a 1B goalie you can ride until Jarry figures his stuff out. DeSmith hasn't been bad this year overall, his performance is what you should expect considering the caliber of goalie he is, but they need someone reliable that they can lean on until Jarry straightens out his game.

DeSmith is showing that he's a fringe NHL/AHL goalie like Zatkoff. If you have a reliable starter, that's not a problem as your backup, but they don't have a reliable starter right now.

 

[Al Smith]

I'd rather just get Pettersson and Riikola back to make those 15 games a moot point.

He is so, so bad in his own zone. A forward playing D. I wouldn't mind scratching him to give him some time to convert to wing.

Yeah, there were some sequences last night in the first that were really bad - one in particular where the Isles inexplicably took their foot off the gas on the forecheck or it could have been worse. Petts has his own issues, and I think Sully had Riiko Gilloolied between periods in his one start, so Matheson might be in there for awhile. Nice to at least see POJ throwing a wrench in the plans, in a good way.

 

[Andy99]

I'd start with moving on from DeSmith and bringing in a 1B goalie you can ride until Jarry figures his stuff out. DeSmith hasn't been bad this year overall, his performance is what you should expect considering the caliber of goalie he is, but they need someone reliable that they can lean on until Jarry straightens out his game.

DeSmith is showing that he's a fringe NHL/AHL goalie like Zatkoff. If you have a reliable starter, that's not a problem as your backup, but they don't have a reliable starter right now.

that’s fine but we’re probably going to have to move some more salary to fit in a vet goalie...someone maybe available but they’re likely going to come with some coin

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Team game. I know it’s kind of a tired trope, but everyone is responsible imo, including the coach.

When you’re not good enough to win games in regulation, hard to just say “defense” “goalie” “power play” “coach”.

I think there’s a lot of blame to go around, luckily it’s all fixable. Question of how soon or will it even be fixed.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Team game. I know it’s kind of a tired trope, but everyone is responsible imo, including the coach.

When you’re not good enough to win games in regulation, hard to just say “defense” “goalie” “power play” “coach”.

I think there’s a lot of blame to go around, luckily it’s all fixable. Question of how soon or will it even be fixed.

I saw a lot of good things last night... it’s why I was so angry with Letang being a potato head.

They deserved to win that game.

 

[vikingGoalie]

so has the cry to bring Fleury back started up yet?

Thing is the defense is not doing a struggling goalie any favors, but Jarry still has to be better then this. Jarry looks unsettled in net this year like he's fighting it. I'm still not a fan of buckley as the Pens goalie coach. Time to get us a new one. I hear Prior did wonders with settling fleury down in vegas, let's see what he's up to..

On a side note, POJ is a revelation if Marino can get out this semi sophmore slump he's in and dumo can return what he used to be we have a pretty darn good top 4. Matheson needs some time in our system. He has all the tools I can totally see why JR took a chance on him.

 

[Andy99]

One could say this about the Pens too...if you look at each game, even the ones we’ve won, we’ve had the worse goaltender in most of them except for the occasional game of having two really bad goalies on the ice...lol...this is not to say we could have won more games with better special teams etc or have done more/better in other facets of the game...

Oilers' loss to Flames shines searing spotlight on cost of goaltending woes

 

[SouthGeorge]

When this is your "#1 D" You stand no chance between the pipes. I mean the stupidity and lack of basic hockey IQ. But yes, lets run another goalie out of town.Lets run every goalie out of town and not address the real issue here.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

Why does MAF suck exactly?

I'm mimicking the shouting that's been around here for years. The point I was making is it's awfully unlikely that all the goalies stink. Perhaps something else stinks

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Once again most of you should not rely on your memory for the 4 goals:

Ceci getting beat by a 4 feet wide. I felt like Jarry should have had this one... kinda of a bad angle but Eberle did backhand a top shelf.
View attachment 393602

What no-one is talking about with this goal is that because there is no backside help, if TJ challenges the puck like everyone is asking for, Eberle simply just drags it across the crease for an empty net. Lee did the exact same thing later in the period that TJ stopped because he didn't fully commit to challenging the puck.

Matthews scored almost the exact same goal last night with Holtby in the same position as TJ. It's like if you get walked but a goal scorer that close to the goal you're often gonna get scored on.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Sully could employ a more conservative approach to the D system and I think that would solve a lot. A lot of goals against Jarry are in close (and some unchecked) because our system is too aggressive. Don’t leave guys unattended in front and things will change.

That’s not absolving Jarry but the coaches knew the goaltending situation prior to the season and still gambled on our style and haven’t really changed even though it’s not working and we are 20% of the way through the season.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

How come Jarry is unable to allow under 3 goals?
Last year it seemed he couldn't give up more than 2.

 

[TKalltheTime]

People are bitching about Jarry defenders, what about the dolts making every excuse in the book for Letang being the biggest idiot in the NHL for the past 15+ years...

 

[BmxHockey]

The stars showed up. Great game I thought. More mini camp time next week should help. Stay positive, everything is energy!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

agree, but I do think there are teams just as flawed defensively as the Pens who are getting better results and better results from their goalie...it can be both that the goalie isn’t doing enough and the system is terrible...

I’ve already said that though.

From 30+ years of watching and playing hockey, I’ve never seen a goalie get his confidence back by his team playing shitty D in front of him.

First the team plays sound hockey, then the goalie’s confidence comes back.

Always in that order.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I’ve already said that though.

From 30+ years of watching and playing hockey, I’ve never seen a goalie get his confidence back by his team playing shitty D in front of him.

First the team plays sound hockey, then the goalie’s confidence comes back.

Always in that order.

But according to xGA and HDCA we are doing that.

Which I find hard to believe considering some of the chances I've seen. Maybe there's levels to a HDCA and we are skewing to the very upper end, super HDCA.

Jarry could also be better, that much is true.

 

[Andy99]

I’ve already said that though.

From 30+ years of watching and playing hockey, I’ve never seen a goalie get his confidence back by his team playing shitty D in front of him.

First the team plays sound hockey, then the goalie’s confidence comes back.

Always in that order.

I’ve watched 30+ years of hockey too and I don’t think the cause and effect is always that direct...a goalie making big stops can have an equally important impact on effort and buy in in front of him...

 

[Andy99]

Sully could employ a more conservative approach to the D system and I think that would solve a lot. A lot of goals against Jarry are in close (and some unchecked) because our system is too aggressive. Don’t leave guys unattended in front and things will change.

That’s not absolving Jarry but the coaches knew the goaltending situation prior to the season and still gambled on our style and haven’t really changed even though it’s not working and we are 20% of the way through the season.

True, I think the coaches saw the effect of having an aggressive activated D on scoring goals and determined that we also dropped in that department (maybe with age of our stars) and decided that the benefit on scoring was worth the D mistakes...it does require at least an average to above average goaltending, which we haven’t gotten...I think D switch has also had a negative effect on Marino for what it’s worth...anyway, I’m not sure switching back is the answer...the answer could be finding another vet goalie

 

[Al Smith]

I’ve watched 30+ years of hockey too and I don’t think the cause and effect is that always that direct...a goalie making big stops can have an equally important impact on effort and buy in in front of him...

I agree with this in a general sense, but for this team a goalie making big saves tends to enable already existing bad defensive habits.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Letang is the only player on our roster who thinks he's above changing. Crosby has reinvented himself multiple times, and while he still gets too cute his game is suited for longevity. He's a beast behind the net and that style can keep him in the league for years to come. Malkin has faced endless public outcry and constant haranguing in the media and from the organization to become more responsible and change his style etc, and he listened in a big way last year. It remains to be seen how his style will change over the next couple years and if he will have as much longevity as Crosby.

Letang is the only one of the three who just does what he does and f***s up over and over and over again the exact same way. The plays he made last night are ones we've seen hundreds of times, they just don't always result in a goal against. He plays a reckless and carefree style and I am beyond done with it. In the past, there were plenty of moments where you could forgive it because he was a skating beast and could make up for it, and there were times where his risky style paid off in a big moment. But those days are gone. We should have moved on from him last year and I would love to see him gone next year. Marino has lost the plot this year, but give me his play last year and Joseph this year over Letang all day. Two rookies LOL. Both of them are far more responsible and suited to the way we need to play in the future.

 

[Andy99]

I agree with this in a general sense, but for this team a goalie making big saves tends to enable already existing bad defensive habits.

i don’t agree with this...I’ve seen Pens teams absolutely get dejected by goalie play and play accordingly (lack of effort)...I’m not saying that’s what happened last night but I do think they played hard in the second and third periods with Jarry making big stops that allowed them to tie the game and then take a lead...what came first? mistakes were made after that w tying goal being on Letang but Jarry was a big letdown on the go ahead goal