Is USA a stronger junior country than Canada?

[MikeK]

I think people get too caught up in these big tournaments though, which are effectively just super-teams. Tougher to gauge talent across the board with every player considered.

Absolutely true.

 

[cheswick]

USA has been dominant in juniors for quite a while now.

Based on what? Last 5 world junior tournaments 2 were won by Finland, 2 by Canada and 1 by US.

Under 18 last 5, two by Finland, 2 by us, 1 by Sweden. A tournament Canada never dominated at since the CHL is still playing and players aren't released for.

2018 NHL junior draft, 33% Canadian, 24% American. 2017 junior draft, 37% Canadian, 21% American.

Where's the US domination? What metric?

 

[Star Ocean]

Based on what? Last 5 world junior tournaments 2 were won by Finland, 2 by Canada and 1 by US.

Under 18 last 5, two by Finland, 2 by us, 1 by Sweden. A tournament Canada never dominated at since the CHL is still playing and players aren't released for.

Where's the US domination?

 

[Just Linda]

No but the US is better at developing players.

 

[Whalers Fan]

USA has been dominant in juniors for quite a while now.

Since 2010 in the U20 World Championships:

Russia: 1 Gold Medal, 3 Silver Medals, 4 Bronze Medals = 8 medals
USA: 3 Gold Medals, 1 Silver Medal, 3 Bronze Medals = 7 medals
Canada: 2 Gold Medals, 3 Silver Medals, 1 Bronze Medal = 6 medals
Sweden: 1 Gold Medal, 3 Silver Medals, 1 Bronze Medal = 5 medals
Finland: 3 Gold Medals, 0 Silver Medals, 0 Bronze Medals = 3 medals

So, the USA is tied for the most gold medals with Finland, and is 2nd in total medals to Russia (who only has one gold, though). I think the medals certainly help prove your point. This is not even discussing the U18 World Championships, where Team USA has earned medals for 15 consecutive years.

 

[ijuka]

This has been the case for a while, in my opinion. Canada's juniors have been very disappointing after the 2015 draft. 2020 draft will be good for them, though.

 

[cheswick]

So your metric is the under 18 world championship? A tournament Canada doesn't send its best team to cause of the CHL. Ok there. Using that metric Canada has never been dominant in junior hockey since they've never dominated that tournament, for the aforementioned reason.

 

[ProspectsSTC]

I just want to know how Finland is doing it. Seems like they just produce nothing but top players, it's unbelievable.

 

[Leafsrock95]

Since 2010 in the U20 World Championships:

Russia: 1 Gold Medal, 3 Silver Medals, 4 Bronze Medals = 8 medals
USA: 3 Gold Medals, 1 Silver Medal, 3 Bronze Medals = 7 medals
Canada: 2 Gold Medals, 3 Silver Medals, 1 Bronze Medal = 6 medals
Sweden: 1 Gold Medal, 3 Silver Medals, 1 Bronze Medal = 5 medals
Finland: 3 Gold Medals, 0 Silver Medals, 0 Bronze Medals = 3 medals

So, the USA is tied for the most gold medals with Finland, and is 2nd in total medals to Russia (who only has one gold, though). I think the medals certainly help prove your point. This is not even discussing the U18 World Championships, where Team USA has earned medals for 15 consecutive years.

Canada has the most finals tho

For the question honestly USA is so big and hockey is just gettin bigger it’s only a matter of time before USA dominates like most sports.

 

[canuck2010]

Since 2010 in the U20 World Championships:

Russia: 1 Gold Medal, 3 Silver Medals, 4 Bronze Medals = 8 medals
USA: 3 Gold Medals, 1 Silver Medal, 3 Bronze Medals = 7 medals
Canada: 2 Gold Medals, 3 Silver Medals, 1 Bronze Medal = 6 medals
Sweden: 1 Gold Medal, 3 Silver Medals, 1 Bronze Medal = 5 medals
Finland: 3 Gold Medals, 0 Silver Medals, 0 Bronze Medals = 3 medals

So, the USA is tied for the most gold medals with Finland, and is 2nd in total medals to Russia (who only has one gold, though). I think the medals certainly help prove your point. This is not even discussing the U18 World Championships, where Team USA has earned medals for 15 consecutive years.

Nor should the U18 be counted, The US is the only country that sends a full time national team.

 

[bigbabybuda]

No. The US has a lot less players playing in the NHL that could be on the U20 teams every year and the U18s play during the CHL playoffs. They're not there yet and that. The gap is closing though.

 

[Cotton]

To overtake, it would have to be sustained over a long period of time, much longer than it's even been debatably close. Nations go through development spurts, remember the Czechs in the 90's, or how Finland used to be a goalie factory?

Canada was in a valley, and will be climbing a peak again in the coming years.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Pure talent wise, no.
But as far as developing their talent, they've made a massive push over last few years.
Eventually I think can catch up in talent. But the development program that they have is what's most important.
As far as the teams they send to junior tournaments, they actually might be slightly ahead of Canada.

 

[lawrence]

I never really thought about this and that would make a huge difference for sure. Thanks for sharing as it's a great fact to realize when watching the Canadian U18 team.

it's actually been like this every year, this time around they are missing Bowan Byram.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Nor should the U18 be counted, The US is the only country that sends a full time national team.

Maybe so, but they can only play against the competition that is sent. And 15 straight medals is still impressive under any circumstance -- it certainly must contribute to their increased success at the U20 WC over the past decade.

 

[wasup]

This poll is stupid . If you are from the USA you vote USA if you are from Canada you vote Canada . Talent does not have any bearing on the vote , it's just an argument poll .

 

[eviohh26]

Close. USA has been getting better and better .

 

[canuck2010]

Maybe so, but they can only play against the competition that is sent. And 15 straight medals is still impressive under any circumstance -- it certainly must contribute to their increased success at the U20 WC over the past decade.

well it does of course, but if you subscribe to the notion that the USA is number two overall and they bring their team and number one doesn't they will medal 15 times in a row.

 

[bert]

keep in mind when the U18 is on, the ChL playoffs is still on. so Canada is always missing 2 or 3 really good players for that tournament.

Canada was missing their 3 best players and a 4th that would have been a top 6 player. Number 1 d man top LW and top Center and debatably another top line forward.

I dont even think this age group is better. They are closing the gap but its still a big gap.

 

[bert]

CHL players playing in the playoffs don't participate. This year alone Canada's 3 best players (imo) weren't playing, Dach, Byram, and Lafreniere.

Byfield too. I watched him quite a bit this year he is a scary talent, have not seen a player with his size, skill and skating ability in decades as a 16 year old.

Perfetti also is very very good.

 

[bert]

Since 2010 in the U20 World Championships:

Russia: 1 Gold Medal, 3 Silver Medals, 4 Bronze Medals = 8 medals
USA: 3 Gold Medals, 1 Silver Medal, 3 Bronze Medals = 7 medals
Canada: 2 Gold Medals, 3 Silver Medals, 1 Bronze Medal = 6 medals
Sweden: 1 Gold Medal, 3 Silver Medals, 1 Bronze Medal = 5 medals
Finland: 3 Gold Medals, 0 Silver Medals, 0 Bronze Medals = 3 medals

So, the USA is tied for the most gold medals with Finland, and is 2nd in total medals to Russia (who only has one gold, though). I think the medals certainly help prove your point. This is not even discussing the U18 World Championships, where Team USA has earned medals for 15 consecutive years.

Except that Canadas best players are playing in the NHL over that period of time.

Take Hughes, Caufield, York and Turcotte off USA this year and see how they do at the U 18s.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Except that Canadas best players are playing in the NHL over that period of time.

Take Hughes, Caufield, York and Turcotte off USA this year and see how they do at the U 18s.

Re-read my post. The medal counts were for the U20 championships, not the U18's. I just briefly mentioned the 15 consecutive medals in the U18 WC.

And Canada's best U18 players are not playing in the NHL -- that's not possible. I think you meant the CHL.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Canadian voting yes. The emergence of the USNTDP and the NCAA as premier developmental programs has catapulted the US in front of Canada. Canada will always put out a lot of great talent simply because it has the largest pool to draw from, but the CHL is not and should not be considered a primarily developmental league. It exists to turn a profit. Hockey Canada doesn't do enough to ensure that it's elite talent is fostered and hits the potential it should before the draft.

 

[Favin]

I'd still put Russia and Sweden above them

Russia over US?!

Over last decade, US has 3x as many 1st rounders, 4x as many overall picks and 7x as many NHL players.

 

[Romkey]

I think the major reasons the US has been beating Canada at a junior level is this:
1) Canadian hockey has an absurd amount of politics. If you look at the teams selected, there's almost always a head scratcher and people asking why someone didn't make the team, even if he deserved it. Don't know why, but they do it every WJC selection camp.

2) USA hockey has the US National Development Team, where the best of the best play together consistently. Canada has a few practices over the summer, then a few throughout the season, and only after they select the team do they actually practice consistently. Chemistry is such a huge role in hockey, which is why I think USA hockey is winning more than Canada.

That being said, in terms of skilled elite players, Canada is still #1. USA is catching up, but so is Finland I think.