Management Is there Precedence for this in Boston (or other team) Hockey History?

[Colt.45Orr]

I’ve been a huge Bruins fan since the early 80s and I can’t remember a time where the Bruins have ever been in this position, that is: in the playoffs but a large portion of the fanbase is begging Sweeney to sell, even if it means missing the playoffs.

One could argue that the conference has never been this forgiving either, so maybe that leads to the situation we are in where we could easily make the playoffs this year but we want our #1 winger gone.

The only example that I can really think of is quite recently with Glencross last year (a playoff team selling) but that was a totally different set of circumstances as there was off ice stuff going on there and he was far from being a top player when they moved him.

I feel a little for Sweeney –his first year in Boston he walks into a complete mess and an aging core hitting RFA and UFA status around the same time. Now, not even a year in he does the unexpected and has us in the playoff hunt where lots of the fanbase doesn’t want to be (it is a great year to have a shot at the lottery boys). I’m sure the owners aren’t cool with bailing on the playoffs and, heck, the Habs are not in the playoffs this year so we actually have a chance if we don’t run into the Caps.

I think I have the answer:

Sell.


And Buy.

I look at it and Eriksson is turning 31 this summer –there is no way in HADES that you can sign him to the length that he justifiably wants. He would have HUGE value to a team like Chicago –in fact, he would have more value than a Boedker as they can’t extend either guy into next year anyway.

Boedker will be still 26 well into next season so the Bruins can give him the 7 year contract he wants and it will take him right through his prime. This should be a relatively easy 3 way trade –take the picks for Eriksson, flip them for Boedker, tell him you are putting him next to a C unlike anything he has ever seen in Krejci and sign him for 7 years. The Bruins rebuild/get significantly younger (5 years) and faster in one trade and still compete for the playoffs this year.

Sorry, I didn’t mean for this to turn into a proposal –I’m sure there are better ones out there, I guess my question circles back to if this is a situation that the Bruins or any other GM has been in before (and I’m just forgetting)?

As I type I think there was a push from fans to trade a very valuable JBo as a UFA in 2009 and Panthers held onto him for a playoff push that never happened. What other examples am I missing?


PS: I was going to put this in the Trade Rumors area but I hate going to a Rumors thread and have to read proposals or speculation ---most of use just want to read real rumors ← I realize how ridiculous that sounds.

Click to read more...

 

[chizzler]

They're not beating good teams except for last night.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

They're not beating good teams except for last night.

Right, but there are not many good teams in the (East) playoffs this year. Right now they are lined up to the play the Islanders in the 1st round with their goaltending by committee.

I don't see the Bruins as contenders either which is why I think they should sell Eriksson. I just think that buying a 26 year old Boedker helps us this year and going forward as he fits brilliantly in the the prime years of Bergeron, Krejci, Rask etc. Again, I think that Eriksson gets you the same (or better) return of what it will cost to get Boedker --who is a UFA that I would certainly give 7 years to.

 

[Latrappe]

Bruins defense had an hard time to contain team like Buffalo or Columbus. Buying while being a one and done thing doesn't strike me as a good strategy but... with Jacobs around....

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

...

Been beating this drum for a while now.

I think it's very possible to trade Loui Eriksson AND improve as a team.

 

[neelynugs]

i do think that is their plan and that's the best case scenario for the deadline.

best comparison i can give you is the oakland a's a few years ago did the buy/sell thing.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Great plan, I just don't think Boedker is that guy. Rumors he's looking for 5.5 to 6.5m per. Big coin for a guy who's never scored 20 goals.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

i do think that is their plan and that's the best case scenario for the deadline.

best comparison i can give you is the oakland a's a few years ago did the buy/sell thing.

I don't follow baseball much at all --can you give me the gist of what they did? *using hockey comparables...

 

[Hamilton Brian]

They're not beating good teams except for last night.

And I think we've categorically decided, through concensus, that Dallas is a good team as one would expect a good team to be.

If one walks into the playoffs with more questions than confidence, then I hate to say it...we need to sell.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Great plan, I just don't think Boedker is that guy. Rumors he's looking for 5.5 to 6.5m per. Big coin for a guy who's never scored 20 goals.

I hear you --he has also never had a good set-up C man that I can remember. Marchand never had 30 before this year, breakouts can happen closer to prime years...

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

there was a time we shipped out derek morris and brought in dennis seidenberg... and we did the same thing moving chuck kobasew and bringing in danial paille.

i think these examples were moving guys that didnt fit for ones that did fit.

then there was the cap move of blake wheeler and mark stuart to clear room for recchi and peverly and kelly

again... not really the same thing as selling off a contributing ufa. ive challanged people to show me examples where a team was motivated to trade off an ufa out of fear of losing him for 'nothing.'

the ryan callahan trade was initiated by st louis saying he wanted to go to new york. the glenclose trade was new managent not honoring a hand shake deal and the player getting upset

i saw a few other suggestions and NONE were remotely close to the erikkson situation.

meanwhile i can name dozens of examples of a 7th 8th 9th 10th place team dealing picks/prospects for rentals.

nhl history teaches us the bruins will be adding for the playoffs... not subtracting.

your idea of a lateral move might occur

 

[Dellstrom]

We're not selling, we're just not really in a position to compete unless the seas part. If Eriksson hasn't re-signed yet or within the next week, chances are very, very good he won't be here next year. He'd be arguably the best player on the market. If we're not in a position to compete, you have to get assets for him.

Obviously our offense would be hurting big time without him, but if he is traded, it very likely will not be the only trade.

 

[DKH]

I’ve been a huge Bruins fan since the early 80s and I can’t remember a time where the Bruins have ever been in this position, that is: in the playoffs but a large portion of the fanbase is begging Sweeney to sell, even if it means missing the playoffs.

One could argue that the conference has never been this forgiving either, so maybe that leads to the situation we are in where we could easily make the playoffs this year but we want our #1 winger gone.

The only example that I can really think of is quite recently with Glencross last year (a playoff team selling) but that was a totally different set of circumstances as there was off ice stuff going on there and he was far from being a top player when they moved him.

I feel a little for Sweeney –his first year in Boston he walks into a complete mess and an aging core hitting RFA and UFA status around the same time. Now, not even a year in he does the unexpected and has us in the playoff hunt where lots of the fanbase doesn’t want to be (it is a great year to have a shot at the lottery boys). I’m sure the owners aren’t cool with bailing on the playoffs and, heck, the Habs are not in the playoffs this year so we actually have a chance if we don’t run into the Caps.

I think I have the answer:

Sell.


And Buy.

I look at it and Eriksson is turning 31 this summer –there is no way in HADES that you can sign him to the length that he justifiably wants. He would have HUGE value to a team like Chicago –in fact, he would have more value than a Boedker as they can’t extend either guy into next year anyway.

Boedker will be still 26 well into next season so the Bruins can give him the 7 year contract he wants and it will take him right through his prime. This should be a relatively easy 3 way trade –take the picks for Eriksson, flip them for Boedker, tell him you are putting him next to a C unlike anything he has ever seen in Krejci and sign him for 7 years. The Bruins rebuild/get significantly younger (5 years) and faster in one trade and still compete for the playoffs this year.

Sorry, I didn’t mean for this to turn into a proposal –I’m sure there are better ones out there, I guess my question circles back to if this is a situation that the Bruins or any other GM has been in before (and I’m just forgetting)?

As I type I think there was a push from fans to trade a very valuable JBo as a UFA in 2009 and Panthers held onto him for a playoff push that never happened. What other examples am I missing?


PS: I was going to put this in the Trade Rumors area but I hate going to a Rumors thread and have to read proposals or speculation ---most of use just want to read real rumors ← I realize how ridiculous that sounds.

I agree with the Chicago part but apparently they are first looking at Ladd.

Woodlief says big drop off around 22 in first round and not nearly as good as last year or even next year

if you get Chicago's first you need a real good prospect

they have Dano and Schmaultz in the pipeline and can deal McNeill or Hartman. Hartman is an Illinois kid and I think McNeill is a better fit for Boston.

The pick should just be used to add to the pile they offer St Louis for Shattenkirk or the Ducks for Fowler in June.

they got so many prospects and so few openings at forward anyways they need to find a legit NHL top 3 defenseman in a trade, and they need to draft one of those kids like Bean or Juolevi in the draft by bundling.

Those two shouldn't be in the Hanifan area or reputation but that is what they need to do.

I'll miss Loui, but maybe Frank Vatrano is Brett Hull redux

 

[neelynugs]

I don't follow baseball much at all --can you give me the gist of what they did? *using hockey comparables...

i don't think they can approach this type of buy/sell, but beane basically:

a month before deadline traded his best prospect for 2 pitchers, one excellent at the time, one solid (think senyshyn traded for 2 top 9/top 4 guys, the good one signed for an extra year).

then at deadline traded his big power bat for a very good starting pitcher (sort of a johansen for seth jones type deal, but older guys).


what i expect sweeney to do is trade eriksson for either a 1st round pick/prospect OR find a 3-way deal where eriksson goes to a contender, picks/prospects goes to 2nd team, and bruins end up with a D. if the 3-way deal doesn't develop, i see him making a deal to replace eriksson with a forward that's not as good but only costs them maybe a 3rd round pick and/or decent prospect. i'd be surprised if loui is still in boston with no contract extension, which doesn't appear to be happening.

 

[trenton1]

I don't think we've necessarily seen it before, but then again the cap era is only about 11 years old and they've closed up many of the loopholes in that time and some hard lessons have been learned by a lot of clubs.
Many teams have made serious cap errors, especially with older players and have been excoriated for it by fans and media.
Teams are getting very cautious about long term deals and older players. I think sell/buy is a relatively new idea/phenomenon but it wouldn't surprise me to see it become a regular occurrence.

b/t/w I loved the Jones/Johansen trade. That's a good old hockey trade. Not surprised that Davidson and Poile were the ones involved with that one. I miss the trading of yesteryear. I'm a hard-cap hater of the highest order.

 

[jdz]

Hfboards fans generally froth over draft picks and young talent a whole lot more than I do. Veterans are still the most important pillars to any sports team and trading every single one of them thats up for an extension or payrise for draft picks is just a loser strategy. With a bergeron/marchand/krejci/rask core we're never going to be bad enough to be picking #1 or probably not in the top 5 for that matter.

With that said, I'm honestly not gonna be mad either way regarding Loui.

If they trade Loui and get a good return that fills a greater need then fantastic.

If they re-up him to a reasonable deal for both sides then fantastic, hes a great player with a game that should last another term easily.

If they decide not to re-up him and have other deals happening that require Loui Eriksson to stay for the remainder of the year then that could be justified aswell. I just don't see sweeney being the type of guy not to cash in on assets for a UFA.

All I do know is there's no point in trying to guess what sweeney will do. No one guessed the Lucic/Hamilton trades. He plays it like poker.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

I think it will be very difficult to move out Eriksson and somehow bring in another piece that can help us now and have the team be just as good if not better than before the trade. Loui is just such a good fit right now. It will be hard to pull off the magic trick of plucking a key guy out of the roster and not ending up worse. I guess it could happen though.

With that said, I just can't wrap my brain (or heart) around the modern cap-era trend of fans rooting for their favorite players to do well just so they have better trade value. I get that trading Loui might be the smart thing long-term, but I'm a fan and don't want to be rational about sports all the time. There are guys who get paid to do that. Loui is one of my guys and I want to see him stay here and win here so I just can't bring myself to root for him to be traded.

 

[ODAAT]

...

Been beating this drum for a while now.

I think it's very possible to trade Loui Eriksson AND improve as a team.

only takes one GM who`s desperate for scoring to offer a great package for Loui, I look at teams/organizations where the pressure to win has to be immense, those would be

Minny
St Louis and to a lesser degree, Nashville

Those would be the 3 teams I would expect a deal to happen with

 

[chizzler]

only takes one GM who`s desperate for scoring to offer a great package for Loui, I look at teams/organizations where the pressure to win has to be immense, those would be

Minny
St Louis and to a lesser degree, Nashville

Those would be the 3 teams I would expect a deal to happen with

Your right. Players are starting to fall already. As the season goes further, injuries start popping up. It's like a car that is worth $1000. If you put an ad for $5000, you only need one person to like it or need it to make the sale. With hockey, you need a desperate GM on the hot seat. They are everywhere. With parity at its highest, a player like Eriksson can give a team an advantage.

I see a lateral moves after he goes.

 

[Fenway]

The Bruins game plan is simple.

They want to make the playoffs and have 3 or 4 home games where Jacobs gets most of the money ( I think it works out to around 65%) and that keep Papa Jacobs happy and Charlie pleases his father. If Loui is demanding more term than they are willing ship him to most likely Minnesota who are drying to get back into the playoff race after losing 8 in a row.

If they make the playoffs and avoid Washington early then anything can happen. Every Caps fan will dread if they lead a series 3 games to 1 as closing out a series will be in their head and if the Caps get knocked out any of the other 7 teams can win the East (including us)

 

[Artemis]

The Bruins game plan is simple.

They want to make the playoffs and have 3 or 4 home games where Jacobs gets most of the money ( I think it works out to around 65%) and that keep Papa Jacobs happy and Charlie pleases his father. If Loui is demanding more term than they are willing ship him to most likely Minnesota who are drying to get back into the playoff race after losing 8 in a row.

If they make the playoffs and avoid Washington early then anything can happen. Every Caps fan will dread if they lead a series 3 games to 1 as closing out a series will be in their head and if the Caps get knocked out any of the other 7 teams can win the East (including us)

Another factor to consider is playoff experience for kids like Pastrnak. It pays off down the road.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

They're not beating good teams except for last night.

Winning record against:

Detroit
Florida
Pittsburgh
Islanders

Tied against:

Tampa
Rangers

Losing record:

Caps

That's all the East playoff teams.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

Right, but there are not many good teams in the (East) playoffs this year. Right now they are lined up to the play the Islanders in the 1st round with their goaltending by committee.

I don't see the Bruins as contenders either which is why I think they should sell Eriksson. I just think that buying a 26 year old Boedker helps us this year and going forward as he fits brilliantly in the the prime years of Bergeron, Krejci, Rask etc. Again, I think that Eriksson gets you the same (or better) return of what it will cost to get Boedker --who is a UFA that I would certainly give 7 years to.

The first round is the divisional round. We only play the Islanders if one of us wins the division and the other is in a wild card spot. Still, we match up fine with everyone except Washington. You don't pass up a good chance to go to the conference finals for a draft pick. Simultaneous buy/sell plan sounds fine. We definitely need D more than forwards, but it's not easy to pull off. The right deal has to be there.

 

[Fenway]

Another factor to consider is playoff experience for kids like Pastrnak. It pays off down the road.

Very true.

Look if they make the playoffs the vast majority of B's fans will be content. Most of us expected nothing more than being a bubble team this year anyways and many feared it would be a lot worse.

The way this wacky season has gone I wouldn't be shocked if the Bruins became the first team in history to win the Cup without winning a home game in the playoffs

 

[CombatOnContact]

there was a time we shipped out derek morris and brought in dennis seidenberg... and we did the same thing moving chuck kobasew and bringing in danial paille.

i think these examples were moving guys that didnt fit for ones that did fit.

then there was the cap move of blake wheeler and mark stuart to clear room for recchi and peverly and kelly

again... not really the same thing as selling off a contributing ufa. ive challanged people to show me examples where a team was motivated to trade off an ufa out of fear of losing him for 'nothing.'

the ryan callahan trade was initiated by st louis saying he wanted to go to new york. the glenclose trade was new managent not honoring a hand shake deal and the player getting upset

i saw a few other suggestions and NONE were remotely close to the erikkson situation.

meanwhile i can name dozens of examples of a 7th 8th 9th 10th place team dealing picks/prospects for rentals.

nhl history teaches us the bruins will be adding for the playoffs... not subtracting.

your idea of a lateral move might occur

There's also plenty of teams in this position that didn't make a move at all. Just because you can't sign him by the deadline doesn't mean it's completely impossible.

Stamkos is an example of this happening. They could lose him for nothing but are willing to accept that for now and ride the season out.

I would do the same or buy. But I not sell.

Lateral is fine, but I find it hard to believe that can happen.

Looking forward to see how all this unfolds.