Is there a point where Don Cherry could impact the business of hockey?

[Barnum]

I said he grew up as a child during WWII and came of age in Korea.

He grew up in Kingston which is roughly halfway between Montreal and Toronto and has a strong history with the Canadian military. Keep in mind that back during WWII and WWI many Canadians were drafted into the armed services but not residents of Quebec.

To be clear many from Quebec volunteered for armed forces duty but there was resentment in much of anglo Canada at the time.

What I didn't know about Cherry was he was reasonably fluent in French and that came out in 2015 when he did a live interview with TVAS from the SCF in Chicago.

Don grew up in this Canada - things have changed
]

No you didn’t, you wrote “he knew WW2”. Anyone reading that would think he was some sort of participant in WW2. Instead, the only thing Cherry knew about WW2 was licking lollies and chewing bubble gum. Please stop insulting the veterans who were actually “knew” WW2 unlike Cherry. He was also of age to join and fight in Korea but he choose to play hockey. Stop pumping his tires because when he had a chance to truly support the military and I mean truly support the military, he choose to play a game. He could have gone over there, he was of age to join the military during Korea.

With all respect, all of your posts about Bob Costa, 2004 Anthem controversy and all of the the other non-related videos are nothing more then distractions and deflections. You are avoiding the real current conversation and that is Cherry made xenophobic comments and was fired for it.

Here’s your post: you wrote “Cherry knew WW2”, then of course the irrelevant 2004 video.

Don Cherry is 85 years old which means as a child he knew WWII and came of age during Korea.

In 2004 he was LIVID when Montreal fans booed the US Anthem in Montreal and this happened

 

[Barnum]

PS. Many days I run into people that “knew” WW2 and they didn’t necessarily fight but they lived in England or Europe when the Nazis were bombing and blitzing or grew up during the rebuild after the bombings with rationing and destruction surrounding them. Those people “knew” WW2.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

I said he grew up as a child during WWII and came of age in Korea.

He grew up in Kingston which is roughly halfway between Montreal and Toronto and has a strong history with the Canadian military. Keep in mind that back during WWII and WWI many Canadians were drafted into the armed services but not residents of Quebec.

To be clear many from Quebec volunteered for armed forces duty but there was resentment in much of anglo Canada at the time.

What I didn't know about Cherry was he was reasonably fluent in French and that came out in 2015 when he did a live interview with TVAS from the SCF in Chicago.

Don grew up in this Canada - things have changed

OT, but that is untrue. The draft in both WW1 and WW2 applied to all Canadians. There was more resistance to conscription in Quebec, especially in 1917, for a number of reasons. But as far as I know, there was never any such exception to the draft.

 

[Fenway]

OT, but that is untrue. The draft in both WW1 and WW2 applied to all Canadians. There was more resistance to conscription in Quebec, especially in 1917, for a number of reasons. But as far as I know, there was never any such exception to the draft.

I made it clear that many from Quebec volunteered but I have heard for decades that Quebec conscription policy enraged anglos

Ontario used to call highways after the King and the QEW is named not for the current Queen but for her mother.

Montreal was the largest city and financial capital of Canada when Cherry was growing up - everything changed after the ill-fated Montreal Olympics of 1976 and the banks fled to Toronto as did the majority of Montreal anglophones.

Grapes obviously was seething that very few people today were wearing a poppy. MacLean should have stepped up and challenged Cherry but instead gave him a thumbs up only to throw Cherry under the bus 24 hours later.

This is going to get ugly

 

[TheLegend]

What specific group would that be?

It...... doesn't...... matter.

The facts are he had an option to phrase his comments to where he didn't come off as singling out anyone. He made the choice to say it like he did and now suffers the consequences.

And since this is a BUSINESS FORUM, and not the main board I'm not going to get into the social aspects of it all.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Because they are unaware they should and are emulating the behavior of ungrateful spoiled Canadians.

It is like when some 85 year old senile old f**k screams "hobos are sticking up this place". It is a fact and an issue. Hygiene issues are a real issue for homeless people and it causes a myriad of problems including disease. Regardless of whether or not the way he said it was right the topic is relevant.

Wearing a poppy is a cultural traditional that should be maintained, just as we should remember our history racism, native genocide, et etc and I honestly don't think its immigrants objecting to that sentiment but those folk who are turning their backs on tradition.

I think its absurd that people are debating whether or not Don Cherry is "rude". The real question is did you wear a poppy today?

It would have been fine if he talked about the tradition and brought awareness to it, but that isn't what he did. He shamed people "who come here" and acted like people who don't wear the poppy don't care about veterans and are ungrateful. That is moronic.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Don Cherry hasn't known what he's been talking about since before half of the current players in the NHL were born. He's hung up on "Good ole boys" and playing the "right" way, without realizing that the sport has passed him by. He should've been out years ago.

He's also a dogwhistling xenophobe, and he has been for years with his nonsense about European players and other non-Canadians, along with his irrelevant, non-hockey related tangents which culminated in this moment of his firing.

He was a novelty, nothing more, and now the novelty is gone. See ya never, Don, your stupid suits will be missed.

As always, alcohol is a gift.

 

[GuelphStormer]

This is going to get ugly

that's the most unfortunate aspect of this. whether here on HF or anywhere else in Canada right now, a lot of people seem to want to see the world as black and white, and neatly packaged into convenient categories without pausing to consider another point of view or the nuance of things. even more troubling is a growing tendency for people to then become outraged that what they see (or think they saw) is not right.

yes, Cherry's comment was insensitive, made worse by the way he said it - there can be no excuse for "you people". but what he said is quite possibly not untrue. in Mississauga, it is not all that difficult to identify someone who is likely an immigrant (language, ethnicity, accent). and it's easy to see a poppy. indeed, i also noticed the absence of poppies this year, and also noted who seemed to be wearing them. had Cherry instead said "when folks come to Canada, it would be nice if they took the time to understand the meaning of poppies on Nov11", I don't think this would have been all that controversial.

but this has now become more about Cherry's exclusionary views than what he said. i understand that. i just wish people would try to understand what others are trying to say before jumping, rightly or wrongly, all over them.

(ps, Fenway, Im not directing this at you, just using your comment to reply)

 

[bluesfan94]

Buying a poppy has ALWAYS been a thing with Cherry

And so has xenophobia and bigotry.

As I said in my first response in this thread, hockey should be focusing on making inroads in the immigrant community. There are a ton of initiatives about how anyone can play. That all is ruined when a major hockey media figure shames Canadians for being immigrants and not Canadian enough.

 

[Treb]

Don Cherry never singled out any group or people, he said "you people"... The SJWs deducting he meant anything other than he wants ALL people in Canada to support the troops by wearing a poppy are the real racists and bigots, not Don

Full quote:
‘Should have never let him stay that long’: Don Cherry’s firing seemed both inevitable and impossible

“You know, I was talking to a veteran. I said ‘I’m not going to run the poppy thing anymore because what’s the sense? I live in Mississauga, nobody wears — very few people wear a poppy. Downtown Toronto, forget it! Downtown Toronto, nobody wears a poppy.’
He says, ‘Wait a minute, how about running it for the people that buy them?’
Now you go to the small cities, the rows on rows.
You people love — that come here, whatever it is — you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey. At least you could pay a couple of bucks for a poppy. These guys paid for your way of life, the life you enjoy in Canada. These guys paid the biggest price.
Anyhow, I’m going to run it again for you great people and good Canadians that bought a poppy.”

 

[Tawnos]

No it would of been racist if he implied in some way that it has something to do with skin color. Cherry has had an open season on white folk for his entire career. The idea that he juiced up his rhetoric because not all immigrants are white is a total joke. He a guy that enjoys telling "insert group/province/state/city/team here" what to do. This is his thing.

Do you think for a second he'd pull back if this was a trend predominate among "Americans" or "Albertans" etc? Do you honestly believe this?

I don't believe he'd pull back if those hypotheticals were the case, but that doesn't change this specific situation.

Racism isn't limited to skin color, but can apply to ethnicity too. Someone can be racist against some white people who are from, say, Russia, without being racist against white people from somewhere else. All it takes is the perception that people of that ethnicity are inferior. I doubt that when someone is making anti-immigrant comments, they're thinking about the immigrant who comes from the same ethnic background as themselves.

Besides which, "he's not racist, he's bigoted!" or "he's not racist, he's xenophobic!" or "he's not racist, he's prejudiced!" are pretty indefensible arguments.

 

[HugoSimon]

It's always worth keeping in mind that the context for a lot of Cherry's jingoistic nonsense and military fetishism in the 2003-05 period was his steadfast and outrageously wrong-headed belief that Canada should have been participating in the Iraq War (and resistance to that idea played a major factor in events like the US anthem getting booed at Canadian sporting events, to add additional context to videos like the one above). It's ahistorical to separate these things out or remove them from the time period and atmosphere in which they occurred.

 

[HugoSimon]

It's always worth keeping in mind that the context for a lot of Cherry's jingoistic nonsense and military fetishism in the 2003-05 period was his steadfast and outrageously wrong-headed belief that Canada should have been participating in the Iraq War (and resistance to that idea played a major factor in events like the US anthem getting booed at Canadian sporting events, to add additional context to videos like the one above). It's ahistorical to separate these things out or remove them from the time period and atmosphere in which they occurred.

And your lack of consistency is alarmingly obvious. You'd boo the anthem of Nigerians because some of their politicians supported a war? This is pretty much literally what cherry did. He called out a group of people because of actions of the aggregate.

 

[HugoSimon]

What? This has nothing to do with my comment above.

I never said he didn’t understand the significance of the poppy. I took issue with your random misplaced post about our National Anthem controversy from 2004 in a game vs Montreal. And/also the attempt to mischaracterize that Cherry has some sort of profound tie to WW2. That is insulting to vets and my father that actually fought and saw combat in the WW2 while Cherry was licking lollipops, VERY safely back in Canada.

edit: I wrote “2011 booing” but it was actually footage of “2004 booing”.

I honestly think its absurd that you think Cherry ever alluded to having a military history.

He grew up in dealing with the social aftermath of WW2.

He's never made it about his war experience which is why it is so obviously a genuine thing.

A young ww2 fyi is about 92 years of age, and I don't think anyone imagined cherry being that old.

 

[HugoSimon]

Why is it always the people with zero military experience or background that are the most jingoistic? In Cherry’s case, he could have joined up during the Korean War. But alas, he decided to play hockey.

Because for various reasons most veterans are far to humble to demand the attention that they rightfully deserve.

 

[HugoSimon]

I don't believe he'd pull back if those hypotheticals were the case, but that doesn't change this specific situation.

Racism isn't limited to skin color, but can apply to ethnicity too. Someone can be racist against some white people who are from, say, Russia, without being racist against white people from somewhere else.

And this is where the anti racism argument jumps the shark.

Humans are tribal and any time you talk about a group difference of virtually any variety you can be called racist. It is really puzzling though as people like to "assume" what types of behavior are subconsciously "racist" based on how certain people "appear". It is so ironic that people who decry "racist" are so quick to pounce on people with particular communication styles which is so predictably of working class rural folk.

All it takes is the perception that people of that ethnicity are inferior. I doubt that when someone is making anti-immigrant comments, they're thinking about the immigrant who comes from the same ethnic background as themselves.

Of course because of your revolving door definition of ethnicity you can redefine groups endless so your target group is always racist.

Besides which, "he's not racist, he's bigoted!" or "he's not racist, he's xenophobic!" or "he's not racist, he's prejudiced!" are pretty indefensible arguments.

Being bigoted isn't the same as racism. The slight of hand that goes along with making them the same thing is absurd. I don't like Bruins fans it doesn't mean I want to commit mass genocide on the people of Boston.

 

[HugoSimon]

It would have been fine if he talked about the tradition and brought awareness to it, but that isn't what he did. He shamed people "who come here" and acted like people who don't wear the poppy don't care about veterans and are ungrateful. That is moronic.

Of course cherry is a moron that is his thing. Morons are still people and they still deserve a voice.

 

[MXD]

Don Cherry is 85 years old which means as a child he knew WWII and came of age during Korea.

In 2004 he was LIVID when Montreal fans booed the US Anthem in Montreal and this happened

There's only one reason why Cherry turned livid, and that's because there's something very specific with the Montreal crowd that Cherry has issues with. Namely, they don't Speak White.

Also suffers from Canadiens Derangement Syndrome due to numerous coaching failures.

 

[MXD]

Of course cherry is a moron that is his thing. Morons are still people and they still deserve a voice.

Morons deserve a voice.
Deserving a voice doesn't imply deserving a microphone.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Of course cherry is a moron that is his thing. Morons are still people and they still deserve a voice.

He has a voice. He isn't entitled to a platform on national television.

 

[HugoSimon]

Morons deserve a voice.
Deserving a voice doesn't imply deserving a microphone.

They are one in the same.

If no one in your society is allowed to talk as you do, your voice is silenced.

This goes for any group of people.

 

[HugoSimon]

He has a voice. He isn't entitled to a platform on national television.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we should rewrite the law so he has absolute job security. But if you think continually stomping out the careers of people who talk a certain way is progress you are absolutely wrong.

 

[MXD]

They are one in the same.

If no one in your society is allowed to talk as you do, your voice is silenced.

This goes for any group of people.

If Cherry wasn't allowed to talk like he did, he'd probably be interrogated by the police as we speak.

No one has a right to a specific career. None of us have a career in hockey broadcasting as far as I know.

 

[HugoSimon]

If Cherry wasn't allowed to talk like he did, he'd probably be interrogated by the police as we speak.

And yet this is increasingly a trend in modern law.

People are actively advocating rewriting the legal system so that is the case.

Ignoring the fact that lawyering up is a solid replacement for hands on policing.

Anyway I'm not trying to drag this into a political debate.


This is a debate of whether or not Cherry should of been let go in the way he was.

If they want to drop him because they are no longer a fan of paying his salary go right ahead.

But trying to change this into something it is not is absurd.

 

[MXD]

And yet this is increasingly a trend in modern law.

People are actively advocating rewriting the legal system so that is the case.

... None of this is actually happening, but, hey, carry on.